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I'm considering purchasing a CPO 2018/2019 S506 or a 2021 E450. I can do a quick test drive to assess the differences between the two, but I would like input from someone who has spent a lot of time with each if possible. That V8 power of the S class is calling my name. I previous owned an E550 an loved the power.
2019 E 450, 2016 E350 4matic (retired), 2018 Ford Edge Sport, 2008 Porsche Boxster
Originally Posted by bbleous
Hello,
I'm considering purchasing a CPO 2018/2019 S506 or a 2021 E450. I can do a quick test drive to assess the differences between the two, but I would like input from someone who has spent a lot of time with each if possible. That V8 power of the S class is calling my name. I previous owned an E550 an loved the power.
Regards,
Leo
Apples and oranges: Warranty and no warranty.
The only thing, imo, comparable are the trunk sizes and purchase price but if you lease the 2021 E450 will be considerable cheaper.
If it's calling your name, go for it. An S-Class, and any German car for that matter, is expensive to own and operate beyond the warranty period. Especially an S-Class. If that doesn't worry you, go for it.
The S and the E are nothing alike from a comfort point of view.
If your main concern is the power , then the E450 weighs about 500 pounds less than the S560 , so the 0 to 60 is only about 0.3 secs less in S560 . ( 4.5s v 4.8s )
2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, '24 BMW I7 on order...
Originally Posted by teksurv
Member @Streamliner has both a 213 and 222 and may be able to give you some insight.
You rang?
I currently drive a 2020 S560 with Magic Body Control, 18” wheels and non-run flat tires. Most quiet, best riding car I have ever owned. My wife drives a 2019 E450 Wagon with Air Body Control, Acoustic Comfort Pkg., 18” wheels and non-RFT. Her car drives like a dream and she loves it. These are both marvelous vehicles as equipped, but for me, if I could only have one, it would be the S560 hands down, as comfort and safety are paramount to me. Drive them both and see what the seat of your pants tells you. That said, I would lean towards a vehicle with full warranty coverage. Good luck!
I'm considering purchasing a CPO 2018/2019 S506 or a 2021 E450. I can do a quick test drive to assess the differences between the two, but I would like input from someone who has spent a lot of time with each if possible. That V8 power of the S class is calling my name. I previous owned an E550 an loved the power.
Regards,
Leo
Please report back your driving impressions comparison after you have driven both.
Depends on how each is optioned in my opinion. I would personally go for the E-Class if it has certain options that put it closer to the S-Class in feel, such as interior appointments, air suspension, multi-contour seats, etc. An E-Class will not be as luxurious or comfortable however is easier to maneuver due to its smaller size, and will provide sufficient rear legroom for most while still having an upscale look and feel, albeit not as much as the S-Class. One big benefit of the E vs the S is a better warranty, as well as the newer and much faster MBUX system.
Try out both and see what you like, no wrong choices, purely based off preferences.
Have you tried to sit in the rear seat of an E class? With the front seat in my driving position (I'm 5'11") there is only 6" of knee room in the back. That is hardly enough room for a child. When I must take a third person in the car they must sit sideways. It isn't comfortable. With the front seats all the way back to fit a tall person there is only an inch or two of back seat knee room.
Too bad Mercedes doesn't offer the US E class with the extended wheelbase that is standard in China.
As an empty nester who rarely has anyone in the back seat IMO the biggest downside of the LWB S vs the E is the extra length that used to provide what I view as a ridiculous amount of rear legroom. Maybe the W213 has less rear legroom than the W212 which I don't find to be too small. To me it's just how much more refined is the S vs an E with air suspension.
I have both. A 2018 S560 and a 2019 E450 Wagon. I look at the S class as my luxury liner like riding 1st class in a comfortable luxury liner aircraft and my E class wagon more like driving a sports car as strange as they may sound. If is very tight and handles well and feels very zippy. Plus the wagon has the added benefits of the added cargo area.
The S560 V8 is way more fun to drive vs. The V6 in the E450. While the E450 has a similar 0-60 time as the S, there is a major torque difference, and engine sound/feel. An older V8 E550 is close to the S560 in power due to the weight difference. The S is more luxurious, less plastic, with way more comfortable seats and better interior. The standard E suspension is harsh compared to the S. When I test drove E300, E450, E53, none of them compared to the S at all.
Get a good warranty for the S if you are concerned about cost of ownership. I am happy I got the S.
My view is cars fall into premium and non-premium. The quality, fit, finish and overall experience of a premium car is significantly higher then a non-premium car. There is a reason why a S class cost six figures. So you need ask your self do you even appreciate or need/want that higher end experience. If you cant really tell the difference between these two cars, then dont buy the S class. The reason is, the running costs. Not saying the E class if cheap to maintain by any means. But the S class will blow your mind on how expensive some maintenance can and will be.
Just to go back to the premium and non-premium feel. The "how" you get to that premium car is the added systems, components, fitment and choice of materials. If you don't really care about any of those, stick to the E class.
2019 E 450, 2016 E350 4matic (retired), 2018 Ford Edge Sport, 2008 Porsche Boxster
Originally Posted by mobster600
My view is cars fall into premium and non-premium. The quality, fit, finish and overall experience of a premium car is significantly higher then a non-premium car. There is a reason why a S class cost six figures. So you need ask your self do you even appreciate or need/want that higher end experience. If you cant really tell the difference between these two cars, then dont buy the S class. The reason is, the running costs. Not saying the E class if cheap to maintain by any means. But the S class will blow your mind on how expensive some maintenance can and will be.
Just to go back to the premium and non-premium feel. The "how" you get to that premium car is the added systems, components, fitment and choice of materials. If you don't really care about any of those, stick to the E class.
Just my $.02:
I think the fit and finish of the E and S class is equal. Quality of materials ditto. For 99.99% of the world, including the US, the E Class is a PREMIUM car
Many, many years ago in the late 60's my father bought a Mercedes 280 SE 3.5 for $12,500. The convertible, which has become a classic, was $13,500. My parents always had convertibles and were tired of drafting and leaking roofs, but that is a digression.
At the same time a fully equipped Cadillac was $4,500 which you expected to keep three years and get a new one.
10 years later my father traded in his 280 SE 3.5 for a 280 Coupe and get $10,000 in trade. The 280 SE 3.5 was built like a tank and service was minimal.
The cost of owning the Mercedes for 10 years was about the same as owning 3 Cadillacs.
Ten years later he traded in the 280 SE Coupe that cost him $17,000 and got $12,000 on trade.
My first Mercedes was a 1984 300 Turbo diesel which I paid about $24,000 including sales tax. The car was not built like a tank - it was a tank! In 5 years and 65,000 miles of ownership everything was like new. I ran two snow tires on the rear and when I "gifted" the car to a neighbor for $16,000 the original tires were still on the car. (In those days we had a full spare so rotating 7 tires over 65K was quite normal) My only expenses were oil and filter change, brake pads every 15 to 20,000 miles (remember the black wheels because of the soft brake pads) nothing else. Original shocks, when in those days you were lucky to 30K out of shocks and original battery - extra strength because it was a diesel. My neighbor drove it for another 10 years.
So my depreciation was $8,000 or 30% over 5 years with no expenses. Compare that today when a Mercedes can depreciate 50% over 3 years plus maintenance!
Back in those days you paid much more for a Mercedes, but they were built like tanks, over engineered to last and held their value. They were not much more than driving a Caddy or a Lincoln. For a few thousand more over three to five years you were driving a Mercedes! IMO, if you could afford a Mercedes it was money well spent!
Back in those days no one in their right mind would ever spend 3 times more for a Mercedes than a Cadillac unless the Mercedes held its value and maintenance was modest.
For the same reason people bought Steinway pianos vs. Yamaha: they cost much more but held their value.
Both the Mercedes and Steinways cost more to buy but held their value.
Look how things have changed: Mercedes, as compared to a Honda for example, cost many times more, does not hold their value and cost more to maintain.
My dad died in 1990: If he were alive today, he would not understand me buying (leasing) a Mercedes!
Just my whimsy thoughts of the cost of owning a Mercedes today vs. 30 to 50 years ago!
2015 CLS 550 2015 ML 400 Previous 2020 GLB 250 2019 A 220 2005 ML 350 1989 300 E 2001 SL 500
Originally Posted by JTK44
Just my $.02:
I think the fit and finish of the E and S class is equal. Quality of materials ditto. For 99.99% of the world, including the US, the E Class is a PREMIUM car
Many, many years ago in the late 60's my father bought a Mercedes 280 SE 3.5 for $12,500. The convertible, which has become a classic, was $13,500. My parents always had convertibles and were tired of drafting and leaking roofs, but that is a digression.
At the same time a fully equipped Cadillac was $4,500 which you expected to keep three years and get a new one.
10 years later my father traded in his 280 SE 3.5 for a 280 Coupe and get $10,000 in trade. The 280 SE 3.5 was built like a tank and service was minimal.
The cost of owning the Mercedes for 10 years was about the same as owning 3 Cadillacs.
Ten years later he traded in the 280 SE Coupe that cost him $17,000 and got $12,000 on trade.
My first Mercedes was a 1984 300 Turbo diesel which I paid about $24,000 including sales tax. The car was not built like a tank - it was a tank! In 5 years and 65,000 miles of ownership everything was like new. I ran two snow tires on the rear and when I "gifted" the car to a neighbor for $16,000 the original tires were still on the car. (In those days we had a full spare so rotating 7 tires over 65K was quite normal) My only expenses were oil and filter change, brake pads every 15 to 20,000 miles (remember the black wheels because of the soft brake pads) nothing else. Original shocks, when in those days you were lucky to 30K out of shocks and original battery - extra strength because it was a diesel. My neighbor drove it for another 10 years.
So my depreciation was $8,000 or 30% over 5 years with no expenses. Compare that today when a Mercedes can depreciate 50% over 3 years plus maintenance!
Back in those days you paid much more for a Mercedes, but they were built like tanks, over engineered to last and held their value. They were not much more than driving a Caddy or a Lincoln. For a few thousand more over three to five years you were driving a Mercedes! IMO, if you could afford a Mercedes it was money well spent!
Back in those days no one in their right mind would ever spend 3 times more for a Mercedes than a Cadillac unless the Mercedes held its value and maintenance was modest.
For the same reason people bought Steinway pianos vs. Yamaha: they cost much more but held their value.
Both the Mercedes and Steinways cost more to buy but held their value.
Look how things have changed: Mercedes, as compared to a Honda for example, cost many times more, does not hold their value and cost more to maintain.
My dad died in 1990: If he were alive today, he would not understand me buying (leasing) a Mercedes!
Just my whimsy thoughts of the cost of owning a Mercedes today vs. 30 to 50 years ago!
Resale value is a function of availability. In 1984 Mercedes sold 74,000 cars in the US. Leasing was in it's infancy.
The infusion of leased cars into the preowned marketplace has lowered resale values for everyone.
Look at right now, there is a dearth of used cars even Mercedes. Prices are going up quite a bit. The average used Mercedes is up several thousand dollars right now.
Honda's are overvalued. In the 80's there was a quota system in place to limit the sale of Japanese imports. Honda's sold at sticker or over sticker if you could get one.
They were better than American cars, and that perception lives on to this day.
Right now, I think the Korean cars are as good as a Honda and offer better value
I have yet to run the numbers, but I'm looking at the cost difference between buying an S class with prepaid maintenance to match the warranty period and then selling/trading when the warranty expires versus keeping the car for another 4 years plus added depreciation and maintenance costs. One can get lucky with maintenance, but out of warranty air suspension replacement might change the economics significantly. I've already experienced an $8k five o'clock surprise with an E55 just a few weeks after the warranty expired. I'm leaning toward never being out of the factory bumper-to-bumper warranty.
2019 E 450, 2016 E350 4matic (retired), 2018 Ford Edge Sport, 2008 Porsche Boxster
Originally Posted by mercedesmax
Resale value is a function of availability. In 1984 Mercedes sold 74,000 cars in the US. Leasing was in it's infancy.
The infusion of leased cars into the preowned marketplace has lowered resale values for everyone.
Look at right now, there is a dearth of used cars even Mercedes. Prices are going up quite a bit. The average used Mercedes is up several thousand dollars right now.
Honda's are overvalued. In the 80's there was a quota system in place to limit the sale of Japanese imports. Honda's sold at sticker or over sticker if you could get one.
They were better than American cars, and that perception lives on to this day.
Right now, I think the Korean cars are as good as a Honda and offer better value
You are correct to point. Extra volume will cause depreciation.
Having said that, one would think that with extra opportunity cost of buying a Mercedes that the rate of depreciation would be less than on a car that cost 1/3 as much.
In fact it is the opposite: the rate of depreciation is more.
Here is another fact:
I am leasing a 2018 Ford Edge Sport that ends in September 2021. The residual is $25,254. Normally the lease is "upside down": The lessee has no equity in the car: the residual at lease end is almost always higher than the cars value. Last year at this time the car had a blue book value of about $28,000. Today the blue book value of the same car, but it is one year older is $35,000. I presently have about $10,000 of equity in the car.
The Ford, with a MSRP of $47,000 has gone up $7,000. That is a 15% increase in value.
The lease on my 2019 E450 ends in December 2021. The residual is $41,946. The present blue book value of my E450 is $45,000 - about what is was last year at this time.
My 2019 E450 with a MSRP of $71,000, unlike the Ford and most other cars, has not gone up in value over the past year.
If my Mercedes had performed as my Ford did, today it would be worth $55,500 - not $45,000 (an increase in value of 15%) and instead of having $4,000 in equity I would have about $14,000 in equity.
I think the fit and finish of the E and S class is equal. Quality of materials ditto. For 99.99% of the world, including the US, the E Class is a PREMIUM car
Many, many years ago in the late 60's my father bought a Mercedes 280 SE 3.5 for $12,500. The convertible, which has become a classic, was $13,500. My parents always had convertibles and were tired of drafting and leaking roofs, but that is a digression.
At the same time a fully equipped Cadillac was $4,500 which you expected to keep three years and get a new one.
10 years later my father traded in his 280 SE 3.5 for a 280 Coupe and get $10,000 in trade. The 280 SE 3.5 was built like a tank and service was minimal.
The cost of owning the Mercedes for 10 years was about the same as owning 3 Cadillacs.
Ten years later he traded in the 280 SE Coupe that cost him $17,000 and got $12,000 on trade.
My first Mercedes was a 1984 300 Turbo diesel which I paid about $24,000 including sales tax. The car was not built like a tank - it was a tank! In 5 years and 65,000 miles of ownership everything was like new. I ran two snow tires on the rear and when I "gifted" the car to a neighbor for $16,000 the original tires were still on the car. (In those days we had a full spare so rotating 7 tires over 65K was quite normal) My only expenses were oil and filter change, brake pads every 15 to 20,000 miles (remember the black wheels because of the soft brake pads) nothing else. Original shocks, when in those days you were lucky to 30K out of shocks and original battery - extra strength because it was a diesel. My neighbor drove it for another 10 years.
So my depreciation was $8,000 or 30% over 5 years with no expenses. Compare that today when a Mercedes can depreciate 50% over 3 years plus maintenance!
Back in those days you paid much more for a Mercedes, but they were built like tanks, over engineered to last and held their value. They were not much more than driving a Caddy or a Lincoln. For a few thousand more over three to five years you were driving a Mercedes! IMO, if you could afford a Mercedes it was money well spent!
Back in those days no one in their right mind would ever spend 3 times more for a Mercedes than a Cadillac unless the Mercedes held its value and maintenance was modest.
For the same reason people bought Steinway pianos vs. Yamaha: they cost much more but held their value.
Both the Mercedes and Steinways cost more to buy but held their value.
Look how things have changed: Mercedes, as compared to a Honda for example, cost many times more, does not hold their value and cost more to maintain.
My dad died in 1990: If he were alive today, he would not understand me buying (leasing) a Mercedes!
Just my whimsy thoughts of the cost of owning a Mercedes today vs. 30 to 50 years ago!
I have lived through same era and experienced the same starting with my Dad's '59 180. For better or worse Mercedes has expanded their market through reducing the relative cost of their cars. Couple that with the fact that the cars are significantly more complicated and you see the results ie cars that people are terrified to own out of warranty hence increased depreciation. Consider what your E450 would have cost had Mercedes maintained it's '80's era pricing. Base price on a 86 300E was $40K. They actually have pulled off a pretty good feat to produce cars as good as they are for the price that they sell them for.
2019 E 450, 2016 E350 4matic (retired), 2018 Ford Edge Sport, 2008 Porsche Boxster
Originally Posted by MBNUT1
I have lived through same era and experienced the same starting with my Dad's '59 180. For better or worse Mercedes has expanded their market through reducing the relative cost of their cars. Couple that with the fact that the cars are significantly more complicated and you see the results ie cars that people are terrified to own out of warranty hence increased depreciation. Consider what your E450 would have cost had Mercedes maintained it's '80's era pricing. Base price on a 86 300E was $40K. They actually have pulled off a pretty good feat to produce cars as good as they are for the price that they sell them for.
I agree with you you except on the pricing: My 1984 300 Turbo diesel out the door, including NYS sales tax was about $24,000. The Turbo diesel was Mercedes #1 seller.
Prices have actually gone down in real terms. I had an entry level 1977 300d (5 cyl non-turbo) - simple seat belts, MB Tex, no sunroof, 1 side view mirror, basic radio, hub caps that listed for $14,500, That equates to $64,411 in today's dollars. An entry level 2021 E350 (4 cyl turbo) lists for $54,250 with more than 3 times the power, additional safety features, alloy wheels, ...
That said, I drove the 300d for 450,000 miles over 11 years and got $9,500 trade-in on a 1988 Mazda 323 GT sedan (4 cyl turbo) manual transmission, manual windows & sunroof, basic radio, cloth seats. It was almost an even trade, but not quite.
Prices have actually gone down in real terms. I had an entry level 1977 300d (5 cyl non-turbo) - simple seat belts, MB Tex, no sunroof, 1 side view mirror, basic radio, hub caps that listed for $14,500, That equates to $64,411 in today's dollars. An entry level 2021 E350 (4 cyl turbo) lists for $54,250 with more than 3 times the power, additional safety features, alloy wheels, ...
That said, I drove the 300d for 450,000 miles over 11 years and got $9,500 trade-in on a 1988 Mazda 323 GT sedan (4 cyl turbo) manual transmission, manual windows & sunroof, basic radio, cloth seats. It was almost an even trade, but not quite.
That was my point.The E450 would have cost $28400 in '84, The trade is all the extra stuff for build quality. If Mercedes were to produce your 84 turbo diesel today for $60k a0 It couldn't be certified b) it would likely get a poor rating on the IIHS tests and c) nobody would buy it. Having said that a really low mileage rust free car of that vintage would be a bargain for $25k today
Don't get me wrong as somebody who has ridden and driven across the country in Pontons W111s and w201 I love the old Benz's and the new ones lack that special tank, track down the road like a freight train quality.
2019 E 450, 2016 E350 4matic (retired), 2018 Ford Edge Sport, 2008 Porsche Boxster
Originally Posted by MBNUT1
I have lived through same era and experienced the same starting with my Dad's '59 180. For better or worse Mercedes has expanded their market through reducing the relative cost of their cars. Couple that with the fact that the cars are significantly more complicated and you see the results ie cars that people are terrified to own out of warranty hence increased depreciation. Consider what your E450 would have cost had Mercedes maintained it's '80's era pricing. Base price on a 86 300E was $40K. They actually have pulled off a pretty good feat to produce cars as good as they are for the price that they sell them for.
I am somewhat confused by your post.
All cars, Mercedes included, have reduced the "relative cost of their cars", Given the cost of my first Mustang in 1966 $2,500 for a GT V8 289 engine the cost of a 2021 Mustang in constant dollars is less. This is true for all manufacturers
If Mercedes has "actually have pulled off a pretty good feat to produce cars as good as they are for the price that they sell them for" then I would expect the resale value of the Mercedes to have held up better but certainly equal to other cars, while in fact the opposite is true: As a class Mercedes (and Audi and BMW) do not hold their value relative to most cars.
We all know the horror stories of maintaining a Mercedes - one the reasons I lease and do not buy: But it wasn't always this way. When in the 70's and 80's, as compared to other cars, Mercedes were built to last, their resale value was outstanding.
I think several things have happened:
Mercedes in fact do not last longer than other cars;
Mercedes might in fact be overly complicated and their are more parts that can fail: and
Parts for Mercedes as compared to other cars are often two to three times as much (think about the "A" service, oil change and filter, $200)
When you have a very complicated car, parts that are prone to failure and cost of replacement being high, couple that with shop labor rates of close to $200 an hour, I guess regardless of how expensive a Mercedes is, you cannot expect them to hold their value.
IMO the issue is that ordinary vehicle reliability has caught up to Mercedes standards. Now days even a low end car has excellent reliability though there are a few exceptions.
2019 E 450, 2016 E350 4matic (retired), 2018 Ford Edge Sport, 2008 Porsche Boxster
Originally Posted by ua549
IMO the issue is that ordinary vehicle reliability has caught up to Mercedes standards. Now days even a low end car has excellent reliability though there are a few exceptions.
Exactly:
So people begin to wonder, not if a Mercedes is better built or has a better ride, it does, but how much extra is that worth?
That lack of "extra" worth is reflected in the resale market.
This happened to Rolex many years ago: Rolex solved the problem by eliminating many dealers and limiting where you can buy a Rolex. Now a Rolex does hold its value as compared to almost all other watches.
06-06-2021, 01:53 PM
