I've been driving my 01 Lexus ES300 for a couple of years now and I'm getting tired of doing regular maintenance on a 22-year-old car. during my vehicle search the 2017 e400 wagon keeps pulling me in but I'm worried about the life span of the engine. My Lexus has been bulletproof as far as the motor is concerned It has just been replacing things that are old factory parts finally breaking down. my main question is whether or not the w213 is capable of being unkillable aside from regular oil changes like Lexus/Toyota vehicles tend to be. I've been finding e400s in the 60-90k mile range so is it even worth buying one and if I'll be in the same situation of constantly replacing things? Any good sources of super high mileage w213s would be a great resource.

 

Lexus and MB are at opposite ends of the reliability spectrum. There is no unkillable MB.

Having said this, the M276 3.0TT V6 in the E400 is the most reliable engine MB has produced in nearly 20 years. It’s the best chance to own an MB to high mileage without the well documented and expensive problems of the V8s and four bangers. Keeping up with scheduled maintenance is a must.

 

I think this assessment is quite harsh. There are dozens of threads on these forums of high mileage MBs (200,000 miles and more). My 2001 C320 has 180,000 miles on the odo, and it sees only scheduled oil/filter changes. The upholstery has weathered the years worse than the engine and other mechanical bits on this car.

The MBs with 60-90K miles that the OP is considering have barely started to stretch their legs. IMO, Lexus has learned everything it has going for it by studying the European makes.

 

I agree: As reliable as Toyota's are Lexus has taken that to another higher level.

IMO, on a high mileage 100K or more Mercedes, your problems will not be either the engine or transmission, but everything else, suspension, brakes and electronics, switches gauges, etc.

Keep in mind another cost factor: When the 2017 Mercedes was new, hourly repair rates at Mercedes were in the $150 range. Today north of $200 per hour. Also parts have dramatically increased in price. So the cost of repairs vs. the present value of your car has more than doubled and will only go higher ($150 hour for a $75,000 car: now $200 an hour for a $30,000 car).

With that in mind, you must have an excellent Indy shop to do your work: going to Mercedes will be terribly expensive vs. the value of your car.

 

If you are asking if you can buy a high mileage 6 year old E400 and drive it for another 20 years with just doing oil changes, the answer is no. Reliability wise, Lexus is near the top while Mercedes is somewhere in the middle. The Germans use the latest technology while the Japanese wait and see how the new technologies are working in the German cars, the Japanese then copy the design and improve on the design and make it more reliable. With that said, the whole auto industry’s reliability has improve and the reliability gap between the Japanese and the German cars are closer than ever. German parts and labor are more expensive but Lexus is now not far behind maintenance cost wise.

 

For business I drove a '77 E300d (5 cyl) for 11 years and half a million miles between Clearwater and Ft. Meyers. Looking back at my old business records routine dealer maintenance was the biggest maintenance item - oil & filter every 3 or 4 weeks. Tires every 7 to 9 months. Fluids every year. Brakes every 2+ years. Battery, shocks and rotors were replaced once. The rest was as needed.
I recall the radiator and other front end items were replaced by insurance as a result of a collision with a red light runner.

The bottom line is the car was the most reliable car I've ever owned. I've been buying cars every year or two for 65 years (1959).

 

+1:

My first Mercedes was a 1984 300TD: the 5 cylinder turbo. The only expense I had was oil and filter changes every 5,000 miles. I sold it after 5 years, 65,000 miles to a neighbor for $16,500. (I replaced it with the 300 SDL - we needed a bigger car) I paid (I think) $22,500. It came with a full spare and I put snow tires in the winter on the rear. By rotating 7 tires I never needed to buy new tires.. Plenty of room for 5 adults, you didn't need a back up camera and the trunk was huge!

My only complaint was that the break pads were very soft and left black residue on the wheels. Cleaning those wheels was a pain in the a**!

The car was absolutely "bullet proof":

Back then every Mercedes was over engineered: shocks lasted over 100,000 miles. It was built by engineers and was a tank.

This was the height of function over form: Nothing very fancy, but everything worked and never broke. That was the normal Mercedes experience and it showed in the resale value of the cars: Those Mercedes cost more than a Cadillac, but lasted longer and the cost of ownership over 10 years was substantially less than any American luxury car.

Fast forward to today, and now Mercedes cost more than almost any other car and depreciate rapidly: that is what happens when engineers are replaced by stylist and instead of function over form, you have form over function.

I realize that this post shows my age, but I remember when buying a Mercedes was like buying Craftsmen tools: none better and they lasted!

 

I think the E-class in particular is as reliable as any other car, but as in anything mechanical with a ton of built-in electronics, there will be a fixes needed once in a while (including wear-and-tear items like brakes etc) and when that happens, the repair charges (parts and labor) are what differentiates the Merc from most Japanese alternatives. The Merc will be a LOT more.

 

-1. Comparing a car from 46 years ago to a current car is the most irrelevant comparison I have read on this site. You are reminiscing sentimentally about years gone by, thinking of your younger self.

 

If you don't consider cracked pistons or scored cylinders major problems, then you would be right. However, cracked pistons and scored cylinders, both possible on certain W213 models, require engine replacement and are therefore major. And, the 7G and 9G boxes are junk when new, so sloppy and rough shifting will add insults to the engine injuries over 100k miles.

@XANDERtheGR8 go into this with your eyes open. Lexus and MB are worlds apart regarding reliability and longevity. Toyota and Lexus are in the good world, MB is in the netherworld. Or underworld if you prefer.

 

Not exactly, I've had similar experiences with each and every E class generation including the W213. The point is to maintain the machinery according to MB's specifications and you will also have a bullet proof vehicle for many years. My W213 is in its seventh year and has had only 2 warranty events. One was at delivery in July 2017 where the driver door hinges were replaced due to weak springs. The second was when a rear self closing passenger door failed to close completely.

 

If you go back to the original post, it is for an E400: that is the six cylinder model not the 4. The four had problems not the six.

 

Here you go -
E Class W213 totally unreliable... entire speedo, odo, dash doesn't work!? its been for over 2 weeks now, and appointments in USA Eastcoast are crazy! Backed up by 3 weeks +

 

In general there is nothing wrong with w213 in terms of reliability, that said here is a couple of things to consider:
1. Mercedes are reliable only if you maintain them.
2. In my experience around 90k miles is the time when you might need to do lots of maintenance, in you case I'd personally go lower mileage, like 40k
3. In general it's not the best idea to go with fist couple of years of a new model if you care about reliability. This applies to any car manufacture (and not only cars). Ideally I'd look for the last (or close to it) model year.
4. E-class is too big for m274 (e300) (plus early m274 had this connecting rod pin issue which could lead to cracking a piston), in you example e400/450 is a good choice, m276 is a reliable (relatively, as the most of engines nowadays) engine, m256 should be fine as well, there were some storing about failing turbos, but I think only early models of w222 and v/x167 should be affected.
5. There is nothing wrong with 7G and 9G transmission in general, just use point #3. Yes early 722.9 had issues (back in 2005-07), but mostly because Mercedes didn't require servicing them, chance trans fluid every 40k miles and they should no have any problems (it doesn't apply for trans with high mileage which never had the oil changed).
Old and very reliable 5 speed (722.6) also had issues, leaking connector which could destroy TCU, mixing trans oil and coolant inside Valeo radiator.

 

For the record, I have had my 2022 E450 All-Terrain for over a year now, and not even a whisper of a problem till date. Absolutely a joy to own over this past one year !

The car has a 9-speed transmission, and also comes with an Inline-6 cylinder engine, along with a 48V mild hybrid system. The 48V mild hybrid eliminates several of the mechanical belts and parts, which helps eliminate multiple future potential failure points. The mild hybrid system also adds in Torque-fill while the turbo is spooling up, thus reducing the turbo lag if any.

 

You do realize the comment was a reply to your post, not to the original post, right? You painted with a broad brush, with broad room for error.

 

I disagree and find this man’s post to be very relevant and on topic to the history of MB’s and reliability.

 

finally it went through replacement.. costing 6k.. covered by my maxcare warranty from carmax.. for the most part..

Electronics NOT RELIABLE.

 

Sorry to hear your car had an issue @ram0201

But to say that all 213s are unreliable based on a single unit issue isn't very statistically accurate.

OP, I have a 2017 E400 wagon. I love it. I'm the 3rd owner. It's 8 years old now (manufactured in 11/2016) and has ~62K miles and everything works. No suspension airbag sag, dynamic seats are awesome, dynamic headlights, seat massage, CarPlay, HUD, etc. No issues whatsoever. The previous owner ditched the run-flat tires and I have Michelin CrossClimate2s on separate rims for the winter...got to put those on this week. I recently put Continental PureContact A/S tires on the AMG wheels because several different sites had them either #1 or #2 for lack of road noise. The car just eats up the miles and makes long-ish road trips a breeze.

Strongly recommend!

 

My '18 E300 RWD that is fully loaded except for air suspension has had 2 warranty repairs since new. One was at delivery when weak door hinges were replacd. The other was for a soft close door not closing all the way. Beyond that I've replaced the battery once , a set of tires once and the wiper blades once. There have been no electronics problems or cosmetic problems. The car has always been maintained according to factory service specs. The car is bullet proof!

 

My 2022 e450 with 45k miles has spent 75+ days in for service over the past 12 months and is scheduled to go back on the 20th.

too many issues to list here. Some issues have required multiple trips to the dealer where the dealer couldn’t replicate, then they do replicate it, supposedly fix it, then I get the car back and the issues aren’t fixed. I have been to 2 dealers in Colorado and 2 in New York. I have requested a buyback from Mercedes USA and they treated me very poorly during the process, did not return my calls or emails and then denied my claim because the issues “did not prevent the car from being driven”

some of the issues I’ve had

• leaking Front axle seal
• fuel door latch broke and door kept popping open
• self parking module fail
• cameras stopped working
• Front parktronic sensor failed
• Heads up display kept fading in and out (needed to be reprogrammed because of a capacitor issue - Mercedes says this is a known issue)
• driver seat creaking - seat bracket had to be replaced and the dealer broke the massage function during the repair so the car had to be taken back for service twice after that to fix what the dealer broke. Took them 25 days to figure out the pneumatic hose was not reinstalled correctly
• rattling head liner - dealer tells me a clip was missing. I asked them if it broke they said they couldn’t find it so they think the factory forgot to install it
• the HVAC is making a clunking sound. The first 2 times the car was at the dealer they couldn’t reproduce it. The 3rd visit they acknowledged the issue and put sound deadening tape on something. On the drive home it was clear they did not fix it and the dealer wouldn’t take the car back for another 3 weeks because they claim they didn’t have a loaner despite botching the repair in the first place. The car is going to a different dealer on the 20th to address this
• the rear suspension is making creaking noises. This will be diagnosed when I bring the car in on the 20th (I have the air suspension)
• the panoramic roof is making creaking noises. This was addressed 5k miles ago and has returned
• there is a rattling noise coming from the back of the car. The dealer claimed that a grab handle was replaced but that did not solve the issue. Will hopefully be addressed by another dealer on the 20th

this is the worst quality car I have ever owned and the service from the 4 dealers I have been to has been abysmal. I’ve had 7 BMWs prior to this and they were much more reliable and had far better build quality. I’ve also had much better experiences with bmw dealers. Mercedes doesn’t care about their quality or their customer concerns.

 

Long gone are the days that German cars were the standard of quality. (or durability i should say)
Still, my next car will be an MB again

 

Sorry to read about your average Mercedes service experience.

Chaos is not limited to accessories only.

You said nothing about these systems:
the powertrain engine,
the brakes,
the electric power steering,
the keyless doors and ignition...

Any factory recalls and campaigns yet?

 

None of the systems you mentioned have any issues yet.

I will be going back to BMW after this car. I get that not every car will be perfect, but Mercedes has not even apologized or shown empathy in any of my conversations with them. In contrast, when I had a recall on my then new 2017 BMW 5, BMW sent a coffee mug and hat and an apology letter. The recall was to tighten something that was lose, so I stopped by the dealer and waited 15 minutes while they took care of it. BMW proactively apologized for the inconvenience and sent some small gifts and it wasn't even a big deal.

In contrast, my Mercedes has had countless trips back to service and MBUSA did not even apologize for the inconvenience on the phone. They didn't care that one of the dealers put a hole in my door panel and left tools in my back seat. They didn't care that that same dealer called me to tell me the car was ready for pickup, only to tell me when I got there after a 35 minute drive that the car was not ready and they forgot to perform the alignment required when the front axle seal is replaced. They didn't care that the same dealer told me the massage seat was fixed only for me to go to the dealer, sit in the car in the service bay, press the massage button to find out the massage wasn't working.

Another dealer took multiple visits to acknowledge that theres a clunking noise coming from the HVAC only to fix the wrong thing. That same dealer also misdiagnosed a rattle coming from the back of the car and kept the car for 12 days waiting on a grab handle that turned out to not be the culprit. That dealer gave me a loaner car with a leaking tire. I got quarter of the way home only to get a warning saying the tire is low, then the dealer tried to charge me $400 to replace a tire on their loaner because they found a nail in it. To make the situation worse, they tried to act like they were doing me a favor and told me they got the tire at invoice to save me money and didn't charge labor. I of course asked them why they are paying $400 invoice for a tire that you can buy retail for $245 at Tirerack and Costco. Eventually they agreed not to charge me.

I have had 3 recalls

1. Fuel pump - Mercedes found premature failuree on a high percentage so had to recall it. Mine did not fail yet but was subject to recall
2. 48v System - connection had to be checked because there was a risk of a loose connection
3. Can't remember the 3rd one that had to be addressed