W212 AMG Discuss the W212 AMG's such as the E63

Cooling System - something is up

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Old Oct 3, 2024 | 10:49 AM
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From: Fleriduh
W212 E63S Wagon - GSL580 - E63 - E350 - C300
Cooling System - something is up

Few weeks ago I got a Check Coolant light....it was low, coolant was on the floor. So, play around, get a whole new tank (the other one was old). Same issue. Well, get a new cap. Seemed to have fixed the issue.

Today "check coolant" is on (starting the car). Signs of coolant on the tank, and under the engine cover......what y'all think I should check next?






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Old Oct 3, 2024 | 01:50 PM
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How's the lines to the reservoir tank? Also some other ideas in the threads below from the sticky, one guy used UV dye to track the leak

https://mbworld.org/forums/w212-amg/...ml#post7800246

https://mbworld.org/forums/w212-amg/...ml#post7801476

https://mbworld.org/forums/w212-amg/...ml#post8648289

https://mbworld.org/forums/w212-amg/...ml#post8670175

https://mbworld.org/forums/w212-amg/...ml#post8717462

Last edited by PeterUbers; Oct 3, 2024 at 01:55 PM.
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Old Oct 3, 2024 | 01:57 PM
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Is that the one for the turbo intercooler? There are two coolant circuits and they are separate. One is for the engine and one is for the turbo.
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Old Oct 3, 2024 | 02:13 PM
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W212 E63S Wagon - GSL580 - E63 - E350 - C300
The car is in right now getting pressure tested. This, days after the other thread about replacing the pump and all plastic hoses on the cooling system...I am due.


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Old Oct 3, 2024 | 04:18 PM
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W212 MY'14 M276-3.5NA @75kMi
hot turbos

Ol'Man, do you see evidence of your TT coolant overflowing??


overflowing top cap... fir some reason

That right here looks like how circuit got empties.
I wouldn't go look for an additional leak besides that one...
perhaps the tank cap was loose...
perhaps engine turbos got too hot...
perhaps traffic jam was too long...

Do you think better pistons heat removal from combustion could positively help the turbo heat removal as well??

+++ connected ...
one thing we know is the turbo oil pump & engine pump are connected and pump the same oil... meaning engine oil temp affects turbo oil temp.

Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; Oct 3, 2024 at 04:23 PM.
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Old Oct 3, 2024 | 04:21 PM
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From: Fleriduh
W212 E63S Wagon - GSL580 - E63 - E350 - C300
Today, heck, yesterday was normal *** driving. Nothing new, nothing fast, no racing....not even for me. This AM, fluid under the car....

I wonder if I have a clogged turbo cooling line....not sure why I think that, I just do.


As for other leak? Yeah, the cap on the other tank.......the old one and the new one.
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Old Oct 3, 2024 | 04:41 PM
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W212 MY'14 M276-3.5NA @75kMi
SHARED HEATSOAK SOURCE ???

You went out on a civilized normal drive around town then found coolant on the floor.

You idea of "clogged turbo cooling line" links to limited heat removal... ie. too much heat!

-- Are both caps spec'ed with identical pressure relief or different value ?

I could be wrong here... but that is starting to sound like "extreme heatsoak" after the engine stopped.

​​​​​​The pistons heat transfers in to the heads And into turbos - At that point... the uncirculated oil can not help removed heat - It all gets transferred into coolant.

My little poney lacks turbo but had been leaking coolant since new during "extreme heatsoaks" after returning home - This was caused and likely for you as well by dry pistons accumulating heat at normal driving RPM under MOD-0;1.

Meaning marginal oiling overheats coolant to remove uncontrolled heat.

My coolant no longer spills driving in 102°F summer weather. Perhaps this can benefit your use case.



Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; Oct 3, 2024 at 05:15 PM.
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Old Oct 3, 2024 | 05:24 PM
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From: Fleriduh
W212 E63S Wagon - GSL580 - E63 - E350 - C300
Originally Posted by CaliBenzDriver
- This was caused and likely for you as well by dry pistons accumulating heat at normal driving RPM under .
solenoid mod? I was an early adopter....
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Old Oct 3, 2024 | 06:59 PM
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W212 MY'14 M276-3.5NA @75kMi
Originally Posted by OldManAndHisCar
solenoid mod? I was an early adopter....
Good for you & your engine

> What oil are you running....
oil grade links to spray RPM and cooling effectiveness.

If you are comfortable only with "MB Approved" lubricant (sleeveless aluminum cylinders) - You can trst drive RPM up to 2500 to have enough pressure to spray-cool pistons without using higher grade 15w40/5w50 exotic SP oils.

No problem... MOD-1 gives your engine as much pressure as the oil pump builds up for a given RPM.
Higher viscosity > more pressure > spray at lower RPM: no accumulated heat at driving RPM.
Unnecessary coolant heatsoak leaks cancelled 👏

It's a poor setup for luxury cars to boilover coolant and vaporize oil to "save gas".

We are currently fixing to test a small increment to 5w50... you can eye jumping ahead to experiment 10w50 (TT in a warm locale)... or better: go up grade step step to clean up dirty rings.

HEAT is the reason your engine in boiling coolant...

Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; Oct 3, 2024 at 08:24 PM.
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Old Oct 3, 2024 | 08:49 PM
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From: Fleriduh
W212 E63S Wagon - GSL580 - E63 - E350 - C300
Liquid Moly 5-30. Was going heavier next change.
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Old Oct 3, 2024 | 09:01 PM
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W212 MY'14 M276-3.5NA @75kMi
there you have it...

Originally Posted by OldManAndHisCar
Liquid Moly 5-30. Was going heavier next change.
Well that's a good oil to "save gas" but then note how the savings are spent in repairs...


Being an early MOD adopter, what did you make of the opportunity to better lube your engine??

A 5w30 lubricant shears in the W20 range - Get used oil analysis as needed.

Using 5w30 grade is 95% the likely cause of your engine turbo over heating itself.
Turbo service life benefits from effective cooling even more so than cylinders.



Drain that oil ASAP at your convenience to switch to a better oil grade in the W40 range.


Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; Oct 3, 2024 at 11:11 PM.
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Old Oct 4, 2024 | 12:44 AM
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I am not sure if it is a consideration, especially after a definitive reply about oil viscosity being the likely culprit. However, if there is a residual heat warning, engaging the residual heat mode will cool hot spots after the engine is turned off. Every time I get that warning, I engage the residual heat mode, and make sure my trickle charger is plugged in.
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Old Oct 4, 2024 | 01:26 AM
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W212 MY'14 M276-3.5NA @75kMi
TRANSFERRING HEAT...

isn't the "residual heat" mode for winter use when you want heat inside for a while but without idling the engine??


I recall looking at a similar idling case when a driver has been driving with high output then gets off the open highway and into city traffic crawl.

The engine has a lot of heat and now the average RPM is lower for "normal driving".

The piston heat is either removed with adequate spray-cooling pressure or through pistons heatsoaking the heads then into coolant.

The conclusion was the most efficient way to move engine heat is WHILE DRIVING...:
  • when oil pressure is spray cooling
  • when coolant is pumped around
  • when heat exchanger is circulated
  • when air flow is available in radiator

At idle fluid circulation is nearly disabled to "save gas".

Based on that conclusion the practical solution was to increase oil viscosity to effectively collect piston heat at driving RPM.

Transferring heat around is a fairly slow process. Its marginally effective to spray randomly or only above 2700.RPM.

Non stop is the best way to remove heat as it is being produced.


++++ This is why MOD-1 became 2;3;4 to move head at driving RPM.
We can't change "small" oil pump
We don't want to change driving RPM

So we change viscosity to build available pressure at necessary RPM...

Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; Oct 4, 2024 at 02:01 AM.
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Old Oct 4, 2024 | 04:18 AM
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well what did Coolant pressure test results find?

where is leaking from?
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Old Oct 4, 2024 | 06:50 AM
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From: Fleriduh
W212 E63S Wagon - GSL580 - E63 - E350 - C300
Originally Posted by ygmn
well what did Coolant pressure test results find?

where is leaking from?

Two things - as for Oil, I have 5-40, not 5-30 in the car....

As for the the coolant. The shop ran a diag on the car. Computer plugged in, it auto bleeds the coolant. I guess it even controls turning on the heater, defroster and holding the engine @ 2200rpm for 20 minutes or so. They say I had a bubble in the system....


Now, it is wait and watch for the next day or so. Being as the car is at 60k/mi I am going to order all of the coolant hoses as per the very helpful (other) thread and replace things (time to play parts canon!!!!)
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Old Oct 4, 2024 | 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by OldManAndHisCar
Two things - as for Oil, I have 5-40, not 5-30 in the car....

As for the the coolant. The shop ran a diag on the car. Computer plugged in, it auto bleeds the coolant. I guess it even controls turning on the heater, defroster and holding the engine @ 2200rpm for 20 minutes or so. They say I had a bubble in the system....


Now, it is wait and watch for the next day or so. Being as the car is at 60k/mi I am going to order all of the coolant hoses as per the very helpful (other) thread and replace things (time to play parts canon!!!!)
1. Which coolant circuit? Engine or turbo? Your pics look like the turbo circuit.
2. The turbo coolant circuit does not circulate through the heater core.
3. I did not know there was an auto-bleed function. XENTRY makes no mention of it. XENTRY only shows a pneumatic method of bleeding the engine coolant. What diagnostic computer did they use?

I need to do some research on this.
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Old Oct 4, 2024 | 08:03 AM
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From: Fleriduh
W212 E63S Wagon - GSL580 - E63 - E350 - C300
Originally Posted by JettaRed
3. I did not know there was an auto-bleed function. XENTRY makes no mention of it. XENTRY only shows a pneumatic method of bleeding the engine coolant. What diagnostic computer did they use?

I need to do some research on this.

I will ask them. The "Mercedes" guy is (was) a Mercedes Master Mechanic at a semi-local dealership until recently. They had two caps, one for each of the tanks. Caps connected to a system (vacuum?). Was was not there to see the system controlling the cars AC systems (I was told this happens).

To that...they did all of the work for no charge. They said that they were excited to test out the new system with a customer who would understand if some other thing was found. Its a car, they break, I get it fixed....all with out yelling at mechanics :-)
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Old Oct 4, 2024 | 09:47 AM
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The method for bleeding the coolant system in the WIS is the vacuum method. First, drain all the coolant out of the coolant system. Then attach the vacuum device which is usually powered by an air compressor. Hoses will collapse in the process. When all of the air has been sucked out, it is a good time to see if there is a leak or not by watching the vacuum gauge for movement. If it holds vacuum, you attach a source of coolant (5-gallon bucket from Home Depot) and let the vacuum suck the coolant back in. When the vacuum gauge shows 0 vacuum, you're done.

https://a.co/d/i19s9aH



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Old Oct 4, 2024 | 09:51 AM
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Old Oct 4, 2024 | 01:30 PM
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W212 MY'14 M276-3.5NA @75kMi
plastic cap...

Wrong input... wrong result:
Oil is not w30 but is 5w40... thank God!

Back to basics : turbo coolant is boiling out

Cap never gets pressure tested...
Cap must seal to build up pressure
Replace coolant caps as preliminary step.

Engine block "extreme heat soak" still applicable.

Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; Oct 4, 2024 at 05:21 PM.
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Old Oct 4, 2024 | 01:44 PM
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I recall that OP's engine temps were running 214-ish after the solenoid plug pull...

https://mbworld.org/forums/w212-amg/...noid-hack.html

Last edited by PeterUbers; Oct 4, 2024 at 01:46 PM.
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Old Oct 4, 2024 | 08:07 PM
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From: Fleriduh
W212 E63S Wagon - GSL580 - E63 - E350 - C300
Originally Posted by JettaRed
3. I did not know there was an auto-bleed function. XENTRY makes no mention of it.

I need to do some research on this.
Newest version of Xenrty. I guess it is crazy neat to watch. Said the 4.0 is red lined during the procedure ans looks to stress the motor mounts...
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Old Oct 4, 2024 | 08:56 PM
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W212 MY'14 M276-3.5NA @75kMi
Originally Posted by PeterUbers
I recall that OP's engine temps were running 214-ish after the solenoid plug pull...

https://mbworld.org/forums/w212-amg/...noid-hack.html
thank you Peter for linking these two related threads... will continue in original thread as it's the same extreme heat issue.

The summary becomes:
  • oil tstat
  • coolant caps
  • oil upgrade in W50 range

Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; Oct 4, 2024 at 09:55 PM.
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