ColeBlooded

https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2023/07/20/homeowner-questions-ev-safety-after-fire-destroys-her-nocatee-home/

MBNUT1

Not good.

bytemaster0

Yeah, that's pretty alarming. Not gonna lie, I've had a thought or two about something like this before I made the decision to purchase. That being said, EV fires are still exceedingly rare, and there are plenty of past histories of ICE cars catching fire in garages just sitting there because of electrical issues - I recall Ford had several Explorer fires in the 1990s for this reason. Not trying to dismiss, and I'd be very curious if a root cause analysis came out whether it was the battery or some other component. It'll most probably be something in the battery, which begs a question, if it was a loaner, did someone do something to the car physically or electrically while it was on loan to someone else. Being an MB, I'm certain that a *lot* of care has gone into safety in this particular domain, but I guess it can still happen. Hopefully they do a follow-up story, and hopefully MB does right by these people and really steps up to address it. The future of mass-market EV adoption is on the line when events like these occur. Best wishes to that family.

Sportstick

I don't think anyone here even considered that you might lie and I've also had some thoughts about this from other brands. Seeing an exact platform and powertrain match to what I intended to order certainly gives me pause. I will need a lot more explanation about why this happened and what was done in production to prevent a repetition before I submit an order. I'm too old to deal with what that poor family has to face and a new car would not be worth the chance.

I am struck by how little response this thread has received so far. Everyone in shock?

ColeBlooded

I was going to post this in a more general section to get more attention but then I thought EQE owners/shoppers should definitely know the risk with this vehicle

Crito

I think the collective yawn response from the forum makes sense. While I'm sure these incidents make for spectacular "news" the battery tech is pretty tried and proven true at his point. Loaner probably had some damage to the pack. Makes me think twice about trading in my EQE for an EQG though. I'd hate to get hung up on a pointy rock and have that happen in the middle of nowhere. Hopefully they put steel skid plates over the pack if it stays on the bottom. Anywho...

nosnoop

Not really.
EV fires happen, ICE fires happen. Both very rare.
Lithium battery is a potential fire risk, same with a tank of gasolene.
Statistically, EV fires still happen a lot less than ICE fires.

I trust Mercedes would address these issues if there is any inherent risk or design flaw.

chassis

Who gathers these statistics and where can they be found?

Crito

Let me google that for you...
How common are EV fires?
How Much Should You Worry About EV Fires?

bytemaster0

I agree with the broader consensus - most of these battery arrays are very well studied. While I personally think there's a very low risk of fire with my own vehicle, the incident having happened to an EQE is of course troubling. But, consider that these batteries are sensorized to the moon and back, and that MB EQs do an exceptional job in thermal management (peak charge capacity isn't super sky-high on EQs, but if you look at their DCFC charge curves, they're among the best in the industry). The "pop and hiss" sound mentioned in the article, on the surface, would indicate that a thermal runaway had occurred. Those take some degree of effort to achieve with a lithium ion battery unless it was electrically or physically damaged in some very unusual way.

@Crito , I'm willing to bet that the EQG will have an undercarriage protection mechanism so strong you could build a sky scraper on it.

You can watch EQS battery production in a video here: - it's pretty impressive. Tons of cooling, lots of plating to ensure rigidity and puncture resistance, tons of wiring looms and sensors, and a robust cooling network. Something had to have gone very wrong in that article's EQE, I find it hard to believe it was a defect from the factory, given how well developed lithium ion technology has become. The EQE battery is modular, and uses the same module packs as in the EQS. I haven't heard of any EQS fires yet (there may be and I don't know about them). The sedan is built in Bremen, with the battery manufacturing works not far away.

I will say that these events do make me more skeptical of the continuing push to have higher and higher energy densities - the likelihood of thermal runway goes up along with the energy density. I don't know how it is for solid state, if they are ever able to be truly produced, but it's a concern to be sure. For now, I'm not going to lose sleep over it, there are tens of thousands of these produced by now, and I'm fairly sure that MB is patrolling battery telematics and customer complaints like a hawk, which they should be.

ILoveNY

I heard if an EV catches fire you only have some seconds to flee...

Crito

Yeah, I guess likelihood is only half of it. If a gas car catches fire under the hood in your garage there's a good chance you'll be able to put it out with a fire extinguisher before the house burns down. If an EV catches fire in the garage don't even waste your time trying to put it out, run. And if a hydrogen car catches fire in the garage just kiss your butt goodbye as your house will soon be reduced to a pile of matchsticks.

chassis

Thanks. A media outlet and a small sample size, island nation's Defence department. Not too credible.

More robust data is needed. Something from a leading independent source in the industry.

Crito

No problem. Let me know when you find more robust data than that from Until then I'm not going to worry about it.

chassis

Sounds good. You mentioned statistics, so I (maybe wrongly) assumed you seek out such information. I'm in no hurry.

Crito

I thought that dataset was actually pretty interesting. I'm sorry you don't consider it valid. I was kind of surprised that hybrids are much more likely to catch fire than plain gas cars. For some reason I assumed they'd be in the middle somewhere. So I guess the data is saying the risk of fire is mostly a function of complexity. BEVs reduce complexity vs a gas car and (P)HEVs increase the complexity. Or put more simply, there are just more things that can go wrong.

TH22

A friend sent me this article earlier today. I live in the Jacksonville area and we purchased a new EQS 580 from the dealership that loaned the subject car. It is alarming. Ironically, MB USA product support and engineering is also located in Jacksonville. I’m curious to find out the root cause. It’s seems there was a recall and perhaps this car had unknown damage. Our 580 has been flawless. It’s a wonderful car.

xgman

is there any reason to believe that the excessive summer heat in the Florida garage could be a factor? Seems not likely, but who knows...

ILoveNY

Are most of current gen MB considered hybrid? Like the best selling GLC and GLS ones with the 48v battery?

ColeBlooded

Yea they are considered mild hybrids

Sportstick

Best wishes to all, but I am changing plans. I may get flamed by those less risk-averse than we are, but the Florida EQE home fire and the 2023 X7 that roasted another house while parked and the burning ship have us spooked. The upside of moving to EV now is not worth the even low level of risk, considering that lithium ion batteries are still posing issues for a wide array of OEMs based on the various recalls for this topic. I will wait, as someone else mentioned, for solid state batteries...probably one more purchase cycle for about 5 years...or for some advancement to manage this potential with lithium ion batteries more rigorously. Hope all works out well for everyone. We'll be watching from the sidelines for now.

bytemaster0

Sorry to hear, but I can certainly understand. Not saying that I wouldn't think twice myself if a purchase decision was coming around right after reading those news reports. I'm sure many will feel the same way, and I can't blame anyone for doing so. It's on MB and other OEMs to do better in light of increasing adoption of BEVs - the last thing that's needed right now at this critical juncture in electrification is a bunch of fires. One could of course argue that ICE vehicles can and do catch fire, even new, but the perception of a "new" technology easily overrides a more measured sentiment on that front.

Again, I'm not a battery chemist, but have lots of experience working with LiPoly cells. Personally, I've never had a single one combust, even ones that were pretty "sick", swollen, or damaged from impact (research aircraft). Do they go up in smoke for other people? Absolutely, just not for me (yet). I of course treat them with appropriate care in any assumptions I make about them. My mom's old cell phone LiPoly puffed up so bad that the glass back popped off the phone (a self-disassembling phone - it's never been easier to replace a battery!). And, I mean, it's entirely possible for the battery in your laptop, phone, tablet, wireless earbuds, smartwatch, or dozens of other LiPoly packs in your home to equally also ignite and cause a house fire. It does seem scarier when it's a car, where there are other alternative means of propulsion. After all, nobody goes and buys alkaline batteries to power a laptop, or NiMH batteries that'd require a backpack to power - we use LiPoly because there's no other choice for the energy density. There are also design issues with cell batteries, the Note 7 was one of the most infamous high-profile battery scares. I don't see the EQE being a Note 7 equivalent in the automotive world. Just like an iPhone or two, or a recent Galaxy device or two may go up in flames, so has an ICE or BEV.

For me, until we have more root cause to determine if it's model, OEM, or even industry-wide, I'm remaining sufficiently optimistic that I'm okay with it being in our garage. I'm very impressed with the EQE's thermal management. The thing barely breaks a sweat even in some of this crazy heat that we've had. The only time I really hear the compressor scream is when it's trying to cool the cabin, or when it's DC fast charging in high temperatures while controlling the cabin temperature. Contrast that with a Rivian that can't keep its cool in 85° weather (not bashing Rivian here, I think they're super cool trucks). The sound of the contactors in the EQE disconnecting the high-voltage battery when you shut off the car also make me feel more confident that all will be as it should.

I suppose we'll find out more soon. It's very natural to speculate on the cause, though it might be something far simpler, or an ignition source outside of the scope of the battery system itself. We'll see what MB ultimately says about it, and if a detailed analysis of the Dutch vessel is ever able to be performed, maybe more light could be shed - there are so many sources of ignition possible on a boat like that, regardless of where the fire began.

As a dad of three kids, buying the safest automotive platform I can get for my family is paramount for me. My life has been saved by an MB before in an impact, and seeing the EQE's crash test resilience, and given MB's overall knowhow and longer experience in the EV business (they partnered with Tesla in 2014 for the B-class and have been working on some form of BEVs for decades), I can't think of a better car that ticks off the safety and comfort checkboxes while being a BEV. I'm sure I won't change your mind, but I hope one day you'll join us with one of these amazing MB EQE vehicles!

Sportstick

Thank you for your understanding. Another factor from my reading is that our Summer temperatures in our area can frequently be in the 110-120F ambient range, as noted this Summer. Imagine the heat for parking a car on blacktop after driving. From other reading, I've learned that the comparisons of ICE to EV for fire are based on the entire population of ICE vehicles. However, the data showed that 75%+ of ICE events were on vehicles older than 10 years with lack of maintenance/negligence potential issues, so the generally published comparisons may merit more scrutiny.

chassis

Unrelated but related - I am schlepping my BIL's R1T to and from the boat launch and vacation home, sipping a bit of charge whenever it can.... A slave to the cord. Stupid.

He drove 4-ish hours towing a 10k lb boat and had to stop twice for charge. Both times the chargers weren't working at 100% power delivery. Because he was low on "gas", he had to unhitch his boat and leave it on the side of the road (parking lot) with his (attractive) wife sitting in it while he limped to a charger 5 miles further down the road. He unhitched because he thought (feared) he wouldn't make it to the charger hauling the boat.

This happened yesterday. It's as real as it gets. I'm not an EV person, however I keep my mind open. BIL's EV truck is beautiful and fun. But useless in the real world.

Fires, shrinking gas tank (battery range reduction in cold weather), poor charging infrastructure, inadequate battery range, heavy vehicle weight and poorer handling, unknown battery long term life and replacement cost. It's not for me.

Golf carts and grocery getters close to home - EVs are perfect for this. For real life, burning liquid hydrocarbons is the way to go.

teksurv

Having driven a R1T just last night, I can tell you confidently that I would take that over any other truck. That said, right tool for the job. At the end of the day I drive my EQE because it's very luxurious, and fun. Otherwise i guess I could drive a Porsche