Shocking resale value for EQS
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Mercedes Benz EQS 580 SUV, Audi R8 Performance Quattro, Porsche Cayman S
Shocking resale value for EQS
I was delighted to hear about the depreciation of Taycan and causally started looking at EQS. I was shocked to see the used card value :-(
I am seeing 2023 EQS 580 SUV (certified) for sale below $70K, wow that's like 40 to 50% drop in value.
Electric cars
I am seeing 2023 EQS 580 SUV (certified) for sale below $70K, wow that's like 40 to 50% drop in value.
Electric cars
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RBR did a good video on the Taycan market crash, and discusses some of the reasons why EVs depreciate like rocks. Some of the reasons are that new EVs are essentially way overpriced and there's not much perceived or real value in a used one. As opposed to many classic ICE cars, older Porsches in this case, the Taycan or EVs in general have no history, no pedigree, nothing really that gives them value, other than being a transportation appliance. EVs are literally like smartphones. It's only the most recent one that matters. Nobody buys used smartphones. There's somewhat of a market for refurbished smartphones, key being they get a new battery and are then resold, but nobody really wants to buy used batteries. Even recycling of batteries is economically not worth it. It costs more to recycle a battery and use the recycled materials to build a new one, than it does building a new battery from freshly mined raw materials. We'll be sitting on an even bigger pile of e-waste moving forward. So much for saving the planet.
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26 EQS 400 SUV, 23 EQS 580 SUV (sold), 19 X7 (sold), 17/14 GLS550 (sold), 13 GL550 (sold)
EV Batteries will be recycled like every other part of a car that is at End of Life (EOL):
https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...ery-recycling/
https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...ery-recycling/
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EV Batteries will be recycled like every other part of a car that is at End of Life (EOL):
https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...ery-recycling/
https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...ery-recycling/
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Somewhat related news today. These near death electric car companies aren't helping the situation, along with Tesla's continuous lowering of prices for new cars to spur up demand, further putting pressure on used car pricing. Fisker Ocean owners now have to pay for recalls, and its not a good situation to be in if you have to wonder whether there will be spare parts or even a company when your car needs repairs. Not that Mercedes-Benz and Porsche are near bankruptcy anytime soon, but the EV industry as whole is not really viable outside of China with tons of government subsidies, and China is handing them their lunch with how cheap they can produce EVs. We might all be driving Chinese cars in a decade or so.
https://www.sfgate.com/tech/article/...e-19844806.php
https://www.sfgate.com/tech/article/...e-19844806.php
Last edited by superswiss; Oct 17, 2024 at 08:29 PM.
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Their 11% is pretty close to Rho Motion's 10% for US&Canada:
https://rhomotion.com/news/record-nu...-in-september/
https://rhomotion.com/news/record-nu...-in-september/
Snapshot electric vehicle sales in January – September 2024 vs Jan-Sept 2023
- Global: 11.5 million, +22%
- China: 7.2 million, +35%
- EU & EFTA & UK: 2.2 million, -4%
- USA & Canada: 1.3 million, +10%
- Rest of World: 0.9 million, +25%
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RBR did a good video on the Taycan market crash, and discusses some of the reasons why EVs depreciate like rocks. Some of the reasons are that new EVs are essentially way overpriced and there's not much perceived or real value in a used one. As opposed to many classic ICE cars, older Porsches in this case, the Taycan or EVs in general have no history, no pedigree, nothing really that gives them value, other than being a transportation appliance. EVs are literally like smartphones. It's only the most recent one that matters. Nobody buys used smartphones. There's somewhat of a market for refurbished smartphones, key being they get a new battery and are then resold, but nobody really wants to buy used batteries. Even recycling of batteries is economically not worth it. It costs more to recycle a battery and use the recycled materials to build a new one, than it does building a new battery from freshly mined raw materials. We'll be sitting on an even bigger pile of e-waste moving forward. So much for saving the planet.
https://youtu.be/Sl3zEAvV-eE?si=7Xi9lFk-uQu-jWKN
https://youtu.be/Sl3zEAvV-eE?si=7Xi9lFk-uQu-jWKN
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You have some valid points here, but I will say that the EV market and recycling market is a fluid situation. We already know what it takes to make and recycle a conventional car, and we're not going to get much better at it than current. But, EV's, how they are produced, and how they are recycled is a situation in progress. In the future, they will be produced with less mineral intensity, done with less polluting equipment, and recycled better/more completely. They are already less polluting over their life cycle than an ice car, and this gap should widen over time. Think about ice evolution over the years...it didn't go from a Model T to a S class overnight...technology evolves, albeit on a compressed schedule these days.
Here are some links I found on this forum that other forum members been sharing:
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/st...s-why-20b9dfa1
https://fortune.com/2024/04/13/elect...loss-junkyard/
https://www.canadianunderwriter.ca/i...rt-1004242786/
Their argument was that it is hard to repair an EV safely.
There is also this thread:
https://mbworld.org/forums/eqs/89176...-high-why.html
https://mbworld.org/forums/eqs/88348...ml#post8921524
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You have some valid points here, but I will say that the EV market and recycling market is a fluid situation. We already know what it takes to make and recycle a conventional car, and we're not going to get much better at it than current. But, EV's, how they are produced, and how they are recycled is a situation in progress. In the future, they will be produced with less mineral intensity, done with less polluting equipment, and recycled better/more completely. They are already less polluting over their life cycle than an ice car, and this gap should widen over time. Think about ice evolution over the years...it didn't go from a Model T to a S class overnight...technology evolves, albeit on a compressed schedule these days.
Last edited by superswiss; Oct 20, 2024 at 12:24 PM.
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Hey @superswiss , since you are posting in this EV forum, can we assume you own an EV and have first hand knowledge of EV's and their workings?
You only list a 2019 C63 AMG.
You only list a 2019 C63 AMG.
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Hey @superswiss , since you are posting in this EV forum, can we assume you own an EV and have first hand knowledge of EV's and their workings?
You only list a 2019 C63 AMG.
You only list a 2019 C63 AMG.
Last edited by superswiss; Oct 20, 2024 at 08:49 PM.
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I get that, but it's not like we are just learning how to build cars and lithium batteries are not new. They came out in the 70s. I was playing with them in my teens. Plenty of time has passed to come up with robust recycling for them, yet it hasn't happened. They are in everything and most end up in landfills. As for EVs themselves, the trend is towards cheap production and non-reparability led by Tesla with its Giga Press. Large parts of the cars are made as a single piece making it difficult and expensive to repair. We can take apart an engine and repair it by replacing the faulty part, but we can't repair an EV battery. Essentially similar to what has happened with laptops and smartphones. When I was younger I replaced and upgraded parts of my computers when they failed or were no longer up to the task, including soldering on the motherboard. Nowadays, the entire device has to be thrown away and replaced by a new one. We are heading in the wrong direction.
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They did and they didn't make it back then. Despite there not being gas stations at first, the energy density of petrol and the convenience of filling it won over having to charge batteries and the limited range of them. Ironically what ultimately helped the combustion engine win was the electric motor in the form the starter motor. No longer having to hand crank an engine was the final score.
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They did and they didn't make it back then. Despite there not being gas stations at first, the energy density of petrol and the convenience of filling it won over having to charge batteries. Ironically what ultimately helped the combustion engine win was the electric motor in the form the starter motor. No longer having to hand crank an engine was the final score.
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The early adopters are about done. They might keep their EVs, but if they do sell, or trade them in, they won’t get another one. Unless there is a huge leap in technology in a very compressed timeframe. The non adopters have no interest in new or used. The only way I would drive one, is if I got a dependable one given to me, and I got a free home installation charging setup. Even then maybe not. Insurance is turning a hairy eyeball to green home improvements, like EV charging stations, and solar/wind electric.
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The early adopters are about done. They might keep their EVs, but if they do sell, or trade them in, they won’t get another one. Unless there is a huge leap in technology in a very compressed timeframe. The non adopters have no interest in new or used. The only way I would drive one, is if I got a dependable one given to me, and I got a free home installation charging setup. Even then maybe not. Insurance is turning a hairy eyeball to green home improvements, like EV charging stations, and solar/wind electric.
Last edited by superswiss; Oct 20, 2024 at 09:58 PM.
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Yes, I have first hand knowledge of EVs. Driven many from regular to AMGs. I don't own one, exactly because I have first hand knowledge. Don't like them, they bore me, and they don't work for my lifestyle. They are way too heavy for my liking, too big for what's currently on the market, for example there are no 2 door coupes or sports cars. Not everybody wants to drive a nearly 6000 lbs land yacht. They are overpriced when bought new, depreciate like a rock and nobody wants to really buy them used. If I had a commute and drove daily I might pick up a heavily depreciated Taycan, but they are just not special or exciting enough to own as a toy. Having said that, I like to stay informed and see what's going on. It's a forum and we are all allowed to share our opinions.
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LOL, the greater majority of people who own an EV love them and would not go back to an ICE vehicle. But you have to own an EV to know that.
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I get that, but it's not like we are just learning how to build cars and lithium batteries are not new. They came out in the 70s. I was playing with them in my teens. Plenty of time has passed to come up with robust recycling for them, yet it hasn't happened. They are in everything and most end up in landfills. As for EVs themselves, the trend is towards cheap production and non-reparability led by Tesla with its Giga Press. Large parts of the cars are made as a single piece making it difficult and expensive to repair. We can take apart an engine and repair it by replacing the faulty part, but we can't repair an EV battery. Essentially similar to what has happened with laptops and smartphones. When I was younger I replaced and upgraded parts of my computers when they failed or were no longer up to the task, including soldering on the motherboard. Nowadays, the entire device has to be thrown away and replaced by a new one. We are heading in the wrong direction.
