Traded my 2022 EQS 580+
#51
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2022 Mercedes EQS 580
Politicians push agendas from lobbyists. Follow the money, and it should answer most if not all of our questions why the government is pushing EV and why it is popular and for the moment and getting some backlash. In the grand scheme, a combination of tech purest bought into the tech from Tesla, and a few bought EV because they thought it was better for the climate. Then the politicians jumped in and sold it to everyone who would believe them. A lot of noise come and go.
I bought (not lease) an EV because I believe in the technology as it exist today and not because I think the infrastructure is going to get better, not because it will remain cheaper per mile driven (energy wise). The inherent technology of electric motor vs. ICE as a land propulsion is more efficient. I look at my childhood RC hobbies. If consumers actually evaluate their transportation needs, they will know if an EV is in the cards for them.
Pushing the climate issue, the infrastructure issue, and the range issue with EV is getting old. If you have those issues, don't get an EV. You're not ready for it, or to put it nicely, an EV may not meet your transportation needs.
I bought (not lease) an EV because I believe in the technology as it exist today and not because I think the infrastructure is going to get better, not because it will remain cheaper per mile driven (energy wise). The inherent technology of electric motor vs. ICE as a land propulsion is more efficient. I look at my childhood RC hobbies. If consumers actually evaluate their transportation needs, they will know if an EV is in the cards for them.
Pushing the climate issue, the infrastructure issue, and the range issue with EV is getting old. If you have those issues, don't get an EV. You're not ready for it, or to put it nicely, an EV may not meet your transportation needs.
There are 3 barriers to adoption -some people don't have a place to charge (large group), price (large group) or drive very high miles for which battery tech is not practical (small group). Of these 1 and 3 are hard to solve, but there is a large group who would get an EV at price parity. They aren't at price parity now and it's hard to justify buying one.
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AppleFan1 (03-26-2024)
#52
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2014 Mercedes E350 4matic Wagon, 2018 Fiat 124 Spyder Lusso manual, 2005 Acura TSX manual
The safest purchase in EVs are going to be Mercedes, VW/Audi/Porsche, Hyundai/KIA/Genesis, BMW, Ford, GM and Toyota. Everyone else is at risk including Tesla.
That said I think Rivian has a good shot because they have high market share. The R1T and R1S are both Top 10 best selling EVs. The R1S outsells the Model X which I think is a sign that the R2 could top the Model Y as the best selling EV overall. They aren't wasting time on sports cars, sedans and things that don't sell.
That said I think Rivian has a good shot because they have high market share. The R1T and R1S are both Top 10 best selling EVs. The R1S outsells the Model X which I think is a sign that the R2 could top the Model Y as the best selling EV overall. They aren't wasting time on sports cars, sedans and things that don't sell.
#53
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2023 EQE 500 SUV electric and 2024 Jaguar F-PACE SVR 5.0L
I'm tired of listening to loser CEOs whine about consumers and the market. Some EV manufacturers get it. I still might trade my EQE 500 SUV in for a Porsche EV (if not a Lotus Eletre, that is):
Last edited by Crito; 03-26-2024 at 09:35 AM.
#54
Senior Member
I really really hope Rivian succeeds and hopefully Amazin possibly buying it will help but at the moment Rivian is precariousy close to bankrupcy. A family member who is close with Rivian says their products are great but the company is run in a really poor way and has plenty of malpractices. Super unfortunate.
“U.S. automakers lose roughly $6,000 on every $50,000 EV they sell in America, according to a new report from analyst firm Boston Consulting Group (BCG). That figure comes hotly on the heels of similar sky-high losses from companies like Rivian and Lucid. Earlier this year, Rivian revealed that it lost $33,000 on every truck sold, while Lucid topped that figure with its eye-watering $400,000 losses on each car sold.
Rivian said on Wednesday it expected to post its first gross profit in the fourth quarter, after it reported a loss of about $43,000 per vehicle in the October-December period.
In comparison, Ford's Model E electric vehicle division lost an average of more than $47,000 per vehicle in the same period.
#55
Senior Member
I have nothing against EVs, but the technology and supporting infrastructure are still a ways away from primetime. A complete transportation makeover by 2030 is unlikely. The politics annoy me, however. Why do EV buyers need a tax incentive? Why do a dozen makers of luxury brands believe churning out a few thousand vehicles, costing well into six figures and affordable by only the upper 2% of wealth holders, will make a measurable impact on the climate? Why can climate objectives be met only with EVs produced domestically, so imports are hit with punitive taxes? Why do buyers need to experience absurd and mostly unusable 0 - 60 mph acceleration times to be happy with their purchase? The objectives and the solutions being offered seem to be mismatched right now, so I plan to hang on to my sluggish ICE for a few more years.
#56
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Politicians push agendas from lobbyists. Follow the money, and it should answer most if not all of our questions why the government is pushing EV and why it is popular and for the moment and getting some backlash. In the grand scheme, a combination of tech purest bought into the tech from Tesla, and a few bought EV because they thought it was better for the climate. Then the politicians jumped in and sold it to everyone who would believe them. A lot of noise come and go.
I bought (not lease) an EV because I believe in the technology as it exist today and not because I think the infrastructure is going to get better, not because it will remain cheaper per mile driven (energy wise). The inherent technology of electric motor vs. ICE as a land propulsion is more efficient. I look at my childhood RC hobbies. If consumers actually evaluate their transportation needs, they will know if an EV is in the cards for them.
Pushing the climate issue, the infrastructure issue, and the range issue with EV is getting old. If you have those issues, don't get an EV. You're not ready for it, or to put it nicely, an EV may not meet your transportation needs.
I bought (not lease) an EV because I believe in the technology as it exist today and not because I think the infrastructure is going to get better, not because it will remain cheaper per mile driven (energy wise). The inherent technology of electric motor vs. ICE as a land propulsion is more efficient. I look at my childhood RC hobbies. If consumers actually evaluate their transportation needs, they will know if an EV is in the cards for them.
Pushing the climate issue, the infrastructure issue, and the range issue with EV is getting old. If you have those issues, don't get an EV. You're not ready for it, or to put it nicely, an EV may not meet your transportation needs.
#57
A few persuasive tree huggers thought that because the EV doesn't produce carbon while you are driving, but the reality is that the carbon was produced in creating the electricity that enables your EV to move. Essentially, you are simply displacing your carbon foot print or handing it off to the electric company to decide how to produce the electricity (coal, wind, solar, NG, etc.) you use. Hence, buying an EV is like the "not in my backyard" argument. I, personally, would not make an argument that my EV keeps our planet cleaner than you driving a 1.6L ICE or a hybrid. However, as a neighbor, I can say that I'm not producing carbons or noise pollution in our neighborhood.
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#58
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A few persuasive tree huggers thought that because the EV doesn't produce carbon while you are driving, but the reality is that the carbon was produced in creating the electricity that enables your EV to move. Essentially, you are simply displacing your carbon foot print or handing it off to the electric company to decide how to produce the electricity (coal, wind, solar, NG, etc.) you use. Hence, buying an EV is like the "not in my backyard" argument. I, personally, would not make an argument that my EV keeps our planet cleaner than you driving a 1.6L ICE or a hybrid. However, as a neighbor, I can say that I'm not producing carbons or noise pollution in our neighborhood. ![naughty](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/naughty.gif)
![naughty](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/naughty.gif)
1) An ICE wastes a lot of energy. Only about 20% of the energy produced by an ICE engine is used. The rest is waste - over production for instance when idling, braking, etc. you are burning energy which an EV doesn't use. In fact during braking an EV recovers energy.
2) The thermal efficiency of a power plant is vastly superior to an internal combustion engine because the scale of it enables better heat to energy conversion with less thermal energy loss.
So the EV is getting more efficiently produced energy, and it is also using that energy more efficiently than an ICE vehicle. Efficiency means less fuel used, aka less CO2.
#59
That perspective is not correct because it ignores two things:
1) An ICE wastes a lot of energy. Only about 20% of the energy produced by an ICE engine is used. The rest is waste - over production for instance when idling, braking, etc. you are burning energy which an EV doesn't use. In fact during braking an EV recovers energy.
2) The thermal efficiency of a power plant is vastly superior to an internal combustion engine because the scale of it enables better heat to energy conversion with less thermal energy loss.
So the EV is getting more efficiently produced energy, and it is also using that energy more efficiently than an ICE vehicle. Efficiency means less fuel used, aka less CO2.
1) An ICE wastes a lot of energy. Only about 20% of the energy produced by an ICE engine is used. The rest is waste - over production for instance when idling, braking, etc. you are burning energy which an EV doesn't use. In fact during braking an EV recovers energy.
2) The thermal efficiency of a power plant is vastly superior to an internal combustion engine because the scale of it enables better heat to energy conversion with less thermal energy loss.
So the EV is getting more efficiently produced energy, and it is also using that energy more efficiently than an ICE vehicle. Efficiency means less fuel used, aka less CO2.
#60
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Lets compare a 2022 S580 vs EQS580. and using a local in Dudley0776 coal burning SW Florida like Naples zip 34102.
The grams / mile of CO2 including upstream is 564 for the S580 vs 152 for the EQS580. So for all of the reasons stated above the EV results in 1/3 the emissions per mile than it's equivalent ICE.
Ok now given that the manufacturing the battery requires more CO2 than a gas car where is the breakeven point?
Per a Mckinsey analysis it takes 100 Kg per KWH of battery so doing the math it will take 26214 miles for the EQS to pay back the battery in CO2 against the S580. From that point on the above reduction in emissions applies.
All of this assumes that renewable energy is not be used to produce the battery or provide the EV with electricity which isn't possible with the ICE powered vehicle.
The grams / mile of CO2 including upstream is 564 for the S580 vs 152 for the EQS580. So for all of the reasons stated above the EV results in 1/3 the emissions per mile than it's equivalent ICE.
Ok now given that the manufacturing the battery requires more CO2 than a gas car where is the breakeven point?
Per a Mckinsey analysis it takes 100 Kg per KWH of battery so doing the math it will take 26214 miles for the EQS to pay back the battery in CO2 against the S580. From that point on the above reduction in emissions applies.
All of this assumes that renewable energy is not be used to produce the battery or provide the EV with electricity which isn't possible with the ICE powered vehicle.
#61
That perspective is not correct because it ignores two things:
1) An ICE wastes a lot of energy. Only about 20% of the energy produced by an ICE engine is used. The rest is waste - over production for instance when idling, braking, etc. you are burning energy which an EV doesn't use. In fact during braking an EV recovers energy.
2) The thermal efficiency of a power plant is vastly superior to an internal combustion engine because the scale of it enables better heat to energy conversion with less thermal energy loss.
So the EV is getting more efficiently produced energy, and it is also using that energy more efficiently than an ICE vehicle. Efficiency means less fuel used, aka less CO2.
1) An ICE wastes a lot of energy. Only about 20% of the energy produced by an ICE engine is used. The rest is waste - over production for instance when idling, braking, etc. you are burning energy which an EV doesn't use. In fact during braking an EV recovers energy.
2) The thermal efficiency of a power plant is vastly superior to an internal combustion engine because the scale of it enables better heat to energy conversion with less thermal energy loss.
So the EV is getting more efficiently produced energy, and it is also using that energy more efficiently than an ICE vehicle. Efficiency means less fuel used, aka less CO2.
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AppleFan1 (04-21-2024)
#62
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2008 CL550, 2022 EQB300, 2022 EQS580
Plus, a lot of electricity generation doesn't emit carbon at all. This varies a lot, depending on your location. But even within the US, there's a lot of variation. For example, on the West Coast a lot of electricity is generated by hydro. Whereas in the Midwest, you'll probably see more coal-based power stations.
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#63
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Plus, a lot of electricity generation doesn't emit carbon at all. This varies a lot, depending on your location. But even within the US, there's a lot of variation. For example, on the West Coast a lot of electricity is generated by hydro. Whereas in the Midwest, you'll probably see more coal-based power stations.
#65
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First of all, giving you a like for a few minutes was an accident since I disagree with your statement. I very much doubt that Tesla will continue to distance the competition. The stock price has absolutely plummeted the past 6 months. Btw, I can’t stand their owner. I also think that a Tesla sucks compared to the EQS.
Last edited by AppleFan1; 04-21-2024 at 04:33 PM.
#66
First of all, giving you a like for a few minutes was an accident since I disagree with your statement. I very much doubt that Tesla will continue to distance the competition. The stock price has absolutely plummeted the past 6 months. Btw, I can’t stand their owner. I also think that a Tesla sucks compared to the EQS.
and stock price has nothing to do with their software.
I’ll add a a rebuttal
it’s called an opinion… and I like mine, just like you like yours it’s all good 👍
Apple stock is down 15-% this year….. does it mean anything ? having previously owned an EQS I agree it’s a pretty solid car overall.
I just prefer ICE Benz vehicles over their EV platform
From car & driver reviews ….
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Last edited by Fly by night; 04-21-2024 at 05:14 PM.
#67
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2023 EQE 500 SUV electric and 2024 Jaguar F-PACE SVR 5.0L
I find Tesla and Apple to be very similar actually. They both make great software. I just feel like I have to buy into their entire "ecosystem". I can't like tip my toes into those waters. I'll probably end up getting a Tesla solar roof and Tesla insurance too.
And BTW Steve Jobs was really quite the butthole actually... was reading an article where the Shark Tank guy "Mr. Wonderful" was reminiscing about working with him. :rofl:
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/kevin...183332785.html
And BTW Steve Jobs was really quite the butthole actually... was reading an article where the Shark Tank guy "Mr. Wonderful" was reminiscing about working with him. :rofl:
"He was not a nice guy. He would walk into a room and absolutely berate everybody in there,"
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Fly by night (04-21-2024)