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C&D says the Taycan is the #2 "luxury" EV. I wonder how people would take that as gospel and says the EQS is #11 in luxury EV of the same article, and that's the gospel too. Some auto journalism have gone down the toilet. Simply put, the article is employing a cognitive bias known as association fallacy. Don't fall for it because it will be confirmation bias that you are employing.
However, I dug a little deeper and found this site https://www.chinamobil.ru/eng/cars/bmw/i7/sales_usa/ which said only 3,288 i7 were sold. Not sure how reliable these data are since BMW don't seemed to published i7 data that I could find. I love to have someone give me more reliable data on the i7 sales figure for 2023. So far, EQS sedan still outsold i7 in 2023 until further data shows otherwise.
C&D says the Taycan is the #2 "luxury" EV. I wonder how people would take that as gospel and says the EQS is #11 in luxury EV of the same article, and that's the gospel too. Some auto journalism have gone down the toilet. Simply put, the article is employing a cognitive bias known as association fallacy. Don't fall for it because it will be confirmation bias that you are employing.
All these reviewers are not biased or wrong. The consensus amongst reviewers is clearly that the i7 handles and drives better. If all these same reviewers were saying the EQS drives better you would be hanging your hat on that. I didn't cherry pick these articles, almost all the comparisons say the same thing.
Look at the deals they made to move those EQSs though. Even today you can lease an EQS for $800 a month less than a similar i7. All I said was that the 7 is selling well, meaning the styling doesn't seem to be holding it back.
If you look at the sales spread you can see that those crazy leases we had last summer really helped their sales for the year, you can see them pick up and fall off around that time
If you look at 7 series sedan sales figures and you figure ~ 45% of those are i7s, its outselling the EQS slightly:
However, I dug a little deeper and found this site https://www.chinamobil.ru/eng/cars/bmw/i7/sales_usa/ which said only 3,288 i7 were sold. Not sure how reliable these data are since BMW don't seemed to published i7 data that I could find. I love to have someone give me more reliable data on the i7 sales figure for 2023. So far, EQS sedan still outsold i7 in 2023 until further data shows otherwise.
Its hard to find sales data in between model ranges like that. The i7 is doing well and the dealers I have talked to say about 1/2 the sales are i7s, which seems pretty close to that 43% number you mentioned.
Or.....you could just stop trolling the EQS forum, go buy your Bimmer, and drive into the sunset, Beaver teeth and all.......unless you decide to drive your Chrysler Pacifica minivan. Come on, Man.....leave us alone!
I'm having a conversation with somebody. If you don't want to participate in the thread, don't. I'm not here talking to myself...
Money does talk in many different ways. So along that line, get your i7 and enjoy the heck out of it especially in the backseat arena. As others would say, put your money were your mouth is, and come tell us about all the wonderful things about the i7; I know it is one of BMW's most technological advance vehicle to date. I test drove the EQS first myself, and then I went on this forum to read about the owners' feedback and carefully analyzing. When the deal was right, I pulled the trigger and said, don't worry 7er, my daughter who is learning to drive, will take good care of you.
Why did MB decided that the EVA2 platform should go on a little farther? Money does talk!
Money does talk in many different ways. So along that line, get your i7 and enjoy the heck out of it especially in the backseat arena. As others would say, put your money were your mouth is, and come tell us about all the wonderful things about the i7; I know it is one of BMW's most technological advance vehicle to date. I test drove the EQS first myself, and then I went on this forum to read about the owners' feedback and carefully analyzing. When the deal was right, I pulled the trigger and said, don't worry 7er, my daughter who is learning to drive, will take good care of you.
Why did MB decided that the EVA2 platform should go on a little farther? Money does talk!
Im still deciding. I prefer many things about a the Mercedes, we’ll see. Financially they are the same, just have to decide which one and order it. I just drove 5 hours today and it was nice to not have to stop for 30 minutes to charge.
Makes total sense they would continue the platform, they will tweak it and get it to where it will appeal to a wider variety of people.
At the end of the day though, the EQS just hasn't sold well which is why MB is readying refreshes and new models and rethinking their whole EQ approach to EVs.
About the time I was ordering my EQE, I chatted with a salesman about the situation. They could not keep an EQE on the lot, but they had plenty of EQSs to show me.
What I think is happening is all the manufacturers made the same mistake, thinking that the public wanted the physically larger cars in the EV range. That is, a continuation of the ICE strategy of larger and larger vehicles. However, the market has shown that is not the case, and the manufacturers are in a situation where they need to reorient to the demand that is present in the market instead of pushing their planned large vehicles.
I don't think its true that people don't want larger cars. The EQE and the EQS are considerably different in cost. Thats like saying that because the E Class outsells the S Class people want smaller cars...the fact that the E Class is half the cost has a big impact. Same is true of the EQE and EQS.
The EQE is also not selling well. The sedan is averaging less than 400 units a month, only about 100 units a month better than the EQS.
The bottom line is the whole EQ line experiment has been a failure. Their plan to make EV and ICE vehicles alongside each other that offer similar aesthetics and packaging is a better move.
Well the W223 isn't exactly a stunning success either is it?
"The unification of the two models follows disappointing sales of both the S-Class and EQS, with deliveries of the ICE car plummeting by 37% in the first quarter of 2024.This has resulted in S-Class production being cut to just a single shift at the Factory 56 facility in Sindelfingen, Germany, which also produces the EQS.
Wow, next gen in 2030? That's another 6 years away!
So the S-class has to last 10 years, and EQS 9 years before model change? That's a very long life cycle.
They would have a hard time in sales.
2024 AMG EQE SUV , 2021 E63S Wagon - gone, 2018 E63S Sedan - gone
Originally Posted by SW20S
I don't think its true that people don't want larger cars. The EQE and the EQS are considerably different in cost. Thats like saying that because the E Class outsells the S Class people want smaller cars...the fact that the E Class is half the cost has a big impact. Same is true of the EQE and EQS.
The EQE is also not selling well. The sedan is averaging less than 400 units a month, only about 100 units a month better than the EQS.
The bottom line is the whole EQ line experiment has been a failure. Their plan to make EV and ICE vehicles alongside each other that offer similar aesthetics and packaging is a better move.
When I first saw the EQS sedan, I thought it looked like a jellybean! The salesman told me it was the bow design. Ugly as sin. At least the AMG EQEX4 looks somewhat reasonable and performs well.
Well the W223 isn't exactly a stunning success either is it?
"The unification of the two models follows disappointing sales of both the S-Class and EQS, with deliveries of the ICE car plummeting by 37% in the first quarter of 2024.This has resulted in S-Class production being cut to just a single shift at the Factory 56 facility in Sindelfingen, Germany, which also produces the EQS.
The W223 doesn't have has high a bar to meet as the EQS, they don't have an all new platform to pay for, etc...but no in general the two model solution just doesn't make sense. They should have done what BMW did (and what they are doing now) and had them both be the same model.
I would have bought an EV S Class for sure, but I didn't even consider the EQS because its too unusual looking. I think there are a lot of people out there like me.
I'm a bimmer guy through and through, with almost 19 years of driving 5 and 7 v8 bimmers with IAS and ARS. What a fallacy to start a video saying that the i7 craps at the doors steps of EQS and AMG EQS, and then starts comparing the i7 to an S-Class with a couple of sentences. In this video, moto man is BMW fanboy/troller big time. You can say that it takes one to know one.
It would be a sin not to drive an i7 before going to the dark side and get a 23' AMG EQS loaded with S-class+ options. The only thing an EQS has less than the current S-class is space in the backseat arena. However, I did not test drive the m70 since it was not available at the time. In short, the i7 is the chauffer car while trying to maintain it's driver's car status. It's not necessarily inferior to the EQS, but it does not have anything superior to the EQS aside the backseat arena. That's it. So if you are big on rear seating and design is equal, get the i7.
The EQS is a forward design language. Right or wrong direction, it's a technological advancement in automotive without a doubt. Is it the design that people don't like or because it is an EV, or both? Who cares. I'm driving the damn thing, and blowing doors off 99% of the ICE out there while making my sandwich with Grey Poupon, and that's all it matters.
I 100% agree with this. I just purchased my third Mercedes EQ product (the AMG EQE SUV). At the end of the day it is impossible to buy a better EV or passenger car right now. There was only one other EV which tempted me which was the Taycan 4S Cross Turismo - but I already have a Porsche Sports Car in my garage, and it was hard to justify paying $600 a month more for a family car with less functionality.
The Mercedes EQ cars - especially the EQS models - offer an unparalleled combination of driving experience, luxury, and technology. BMW and Audi are okay but there is definitely white space between Mercedes and the rest. The Porsche one I find compelling but it is more of a practical sports car than a luxury car. Those are the only two which appeal to me right now.
And as context I have also driven BMWs for a large number of years - I have owned 6 BMWs, 5 Mercedes, and 3 Porsches so I don't think I have any particular brand bias here.
You can say it’s impossible to buy a better EV, but BMW’s EVs are selling much better than the EQ EVs. In fact the i7 is about to overtake the gas 7 series in worldwide production, the EQS is nowhere close to that with the S Class.
Obviously these products just haven’t landed with consumers..which is why Mercedes is going in a different direction.
This thread...it is possible to that multiple things can be true at the same time. No use running down or trying to justify why one is better than the other. All these cars are awesome in their own way, but don't confuse personal preference with knowing the one size fits all truth for everyone else. We are all fortunate to have or even have the ability to put a EQS, i7, or Taycan in our garage.
I 100% agree with this. I just purchased my third Mercedes EQ product (the AMG EQE SUV). At the end of the day it is impossible to buy a better EV or passenger car right now. There was only one other EV which tempted me which was the Taycan 4S Cross Turismo - but I already have a Porsche Sports Car in my garage, and it was hard to justify paying $600 a month more for a family car with less functionality.
The Mercedes EQ cars - especially the EQS models - offer an unparalleled combination of driving experience, luxury, and technology. BMW and Audi are okay but there is definitely white space between Mercedes and the rest. The Porsche one I find compelling but it is more of a practical sports car than a luxury car. Those are the only two which appeal to me right now.
And as context I have also driven BMWs for a large number of years - I have owned 6 BMWs, 5 Mercedes, and 3 Porsches so I don't think I have any particular brand bias here.
Agree completely. Mercedes and BMW are doing it best today IMO.
This thread...it is possible to that multiple things can be true at the same time. No use running down or trying to justify why one is better than the other. All these cars are awesome in their own way, but don't confuse personal preference with knowing the one size fits all truth for everyone else. We are all fortunate to have or even have the ability to put a EQS, i7, or Taycan in our garage.
In an objective discussion, Mercedes wouldn't be abandoning this strategy and these models if they were successful. Doesn't mean they are bad cars (they absolutely are not), I think the EQ models are in fact some of the best EVs you can buy today, they are comfortable, quiet, well made, have great range....they just haven't landed with consumers and ultimately BMW's approach of making them all the same models seems to have been the better approach.
I said before If they put the EQS drivetrain in the W223 S Class I would have bought it, I just don't like the way they look...which is not an uncommon opinion.
This thread...it is possible to that multiple things can be true at the same time. No use running down or trying to justify why one is better than the other. All these cars are awesome in their own way, but don't confuse personal preference with knowing the one size fits all truth for everyone else. We are all fortunate to have or even have the ability to put a EQS, i7, or Taycan in our garage.
Fully agree. Nonetheless the sales stats do look good for Mercedes at least YTD. While BMW has more EV sales they benefit from being present in the compact sedan segment with the i4. When you look at the iX and i7, Mercedes has a very large share advantage.
That said the data also suggests that BMW has a better strategy because they can probably electrify more of their line up with less capex, and therefore win more overall share.
They both have the problem that their dealer networks hate the EV lines. With maintenance only every two years, the hit to the service revenue, which is where most US dealers make their money, is substantial. No A or B service every six months, and the A and B services for the EQ platform basically amount to change the brake fluid and cabin air filters. Regenerative braking wipes out the brake pad and rotor replacements every couple of years.
They both have the problem that their dealer networks hate the EV lines. With maintenance only every two years, the hit to the service revenue, which is where most US dealers make their money, is substantial. No A or B service every six months, and the A and B services for the EQ platform basically amount to change the brake fluid and cabin air filters. Regenerative braking wipes out the brake pad and rotor replacements every couple of years.
I agree with this. It will likely be an evolutionary paradigm shift that EV will get less service time but cost more each time it is serviced due to the limited resources (knowledge expensive parts, etc.) of servicing EVs. Change is tough for most people but not technology. And since people control the process, we can have the best tech at the time with little adoptions and mediocre process to service the technology.
I think everyone here is saying a little bit of truth about EV (EQ) and current times. The design language has not been received well in this particular segment (possibly affected by adjusted markets such as the small EVs), the technology is without a doubt, one of the best in the market, and negative EV sales are affected by market conditions, infrastructure, and general public sentiments. That leaves us with timing which changes everything. And so we continue onward. Enjoy the ride while you're on it because at some point, you'll get off.
No, EVs are far superior a technology for motor vehicles for most cases. I certainly will always have an EV in the future. I might have a hybrid for some special case driving I do, but there I am beginning to think renting for the one or two weeks a year I might need something like a hybrid would be best.
Anybody that thinks the I7 looks better than this car needs to see an optometrist
I have received so many accolades from folks who love the looks of my EQS. The latest was at Belle Tire in Joliet after that unfortunate incident with the rear passenger tire. The guy who replaced my tire said it was the best looking and technologically advanced car he has ever seen.
05-22-2024, 10:07 PM
So along that line, get your i7 and enjoy the heck out of it especially in the backseat arena. As others would say, put your money were your mouth is, and come tell us about all the wonderful things about the i7; I know it is one of BMW's most technological advance vehicle to date. I test drove the EQS first myself, and then I went on this forum to read about the owners' feedback and carefully analyzing. When the deal was right, I pulled the trigger and said, don't worry 7er, my daughter who is learning to drive, will take good care of you. 
