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Anyone encountered this before?
Car runs and drives fine but instrument cluster is dead. All the gauges don’t work and all the warning lights and messages are on and going off like the 4th of July.. But car runs absolutely fine. If I shut off the car and turn it back on, everything goes back to normal and starts working as it should.
This happens sporadically at least once every couple of weeks. Took some videos.
Last edited by just1time; May 21, 2021 at 04:29 PM.
to be honest i haven't. A blown fuse would completely not work.
this is sporadic.
Your video showed no movement at all in the analog gauges, and I interpreted your description as meaning they're never active. If restarting the vehicle restores their operation momentarily, this would seem to rule out a fuse or loose connection. Possibly a relay is at fault, but this could be tough to track down without a wiring diagram. But you might check the relay cluster if you can find it. There's usually one (under a cover) somewhere in the engine compartment, and possibly another under the dash.
Your video showed no movement at all in the analog gauges, and I interpreted your description as meaning they're never active. If restarting the vehicle restores their operation momentarily, this would seem to rule out a fuse or loose connection. Possibly a relay is at fault, but this could be tough to track down without a wiring diagram. But you might check the relay cluster if you can find it. There's usually one (under a cover) somewhere in the engine compartment, and possibly another under the dash.
Thanks
I will give this a look and report any findings.
Windoze 10 is as useless as **** on a snake so it cannot play your movie file. But, since it is titled G63 I assume that is the G you have. Therefore, you have a CAN bus driven instrument cluster, so almost nothing is "hard wired" to its associated function. I would suspect either an intermittent in the CAN connections or an intermittent in the IC itself. It is remotely possible that low battery (system voltage) could be the issue as well.
Check the battery voltage the next time it malfunctions. It should be at least +13.6 volts but no more than about 14.5. If it is off, you alternator voltage regulatory is going bad (common issue - the brushes wear out).
Buy or find someone with a good deep scanner that can read module level error codes (a simple ODBII scanner won't do). Read the errors for the IC.
Pull your instrument cluster and check the connections on the back - are any loose?
If things point to the IC, there are shops that repair them. Replacing on is a PITA because of the programming required.
Keep in mind that the IC is a gateway between the various CAN busses in your truck so a malfunction with it could affect other things as well. (Clarification - both the IC and the IES are connected to CAN B and CAN C. EIS is the CAN master on the G).
Last edited by Floobydust; May 25, 2021 at 09:36 AM.
So I used my newly purchased Autel 906bt to scan the truck.
Got some Error codes. Knowing that some codes are triggered as a result of one function shut off, I wasn't sure which of these were an actual fault.
Two of the PTS (Parking system) fault codes am aware of since i know two parking sensors stopped working int he harsh Canadian snow.
The C41500 code is what i might have to look into.
Of The other faults, PDA0600 is the only one i was aware of thats indecent of this situation and i already have a new oil valve sensor and plug purchased and ready to install.
Now am not sure about The other codes, and if they are at all related to the issue at hand.
I also noticed the battery was at 11.87v (truck was not running but ignition was on). Is this normal? I read this is not a bad reading for while car is not running. I will take more readings of the battery before and after i start the car in the morning.
Last edited by just1time; May 25, 2021 at 04:09 AM.
What are your thoughts on your Autel OBD-II analyzer, and how did you decide on it versus all the other brands/models? I'm interested in acquiring something more capable than a simple code reader. I just returned a Foxwell NT510 when out-of-the-box it wouldn't connect to download an update. I'm annoyed that nearly all these under $2K readers come from China and documentation/tech support is really poor. Product info is not clear what $500 buys and if $800 is substantially more capable. I've started researching at least a dozen times, finally took a chance on the Foxwell unit, and am now starting over.
What are your thoughts on your Autel OBD-II analyzer, and how did you decide on it versus all the other brands/models? I'm interested in acquiring something more capable than a simple code reader. I just returned a Foxwell NT510 when out-of-the-box it wouldn't connect to download an update. I'm annoyed that nearly all these under $2K readers come from China and documentation/tech support is really poor. Product info is not clear what $500 buys and if $800 is substantially more capable. I've started researching at least a dozen times, finally took a chance on the Foxwell unit, and am now starting over.
I choose Autel because I was a little familiar with from using/playing with it at my mechanics shop. I am not a mechanic and doubt i would ever use the tool to its full capability.
I got mine from a local authorized retailer so have access to original updates and tech support from Autel.
Nice scanner - that must have set you back a few bills.
11.87 volts is a little low, but might be okay if the truck had been on, but not running for a while. You may want to have your battery load tested. G electronics seem to be very sensitive to low system voltage. But what really counts is the running voltage.
I would focus on error codes C22A770, C22AA90, and C22AB00. You may want to clear them (now that you have documented them) and check and see if the come back before the next IC berserk episode or after. Ideally you would want to scan while the episode is happening.
I would also check the CAN bus jumper blocks to make sure all those connections are tight.
What are your thoughts on your Autel OBD-II analyzer, and how did you decide on it versus all the other brands/models? I'm interested in acquiring something more capable than a simple code reader. I just returned a Foxwell NT510 when out-of-the-box it wouldn't connect to download an update. I'm annoyed that nearly all these under $2K readers come from China and documentation/tech support is really poor. Product info is not clear what $500 buys and if $800 is substantially more capable. I've started researching at least a dozen times, finally took a chance on the Foxwell unit, and am now starting over.
I have the Foxwell NT510 and yes, their software tool for loading firmware or updates is user antagonistic, but it will work eventually. I have both MB and Acura on mine. I also have a Star system which I rarely used because the NT510 does most of what I need. I use the SDS for version coding only. That being said, the Autel does look very nice. I considered it, but strangely, there is no TMPS support with it.
Nice scanner - that must have set you back a few bills.
11.87 volts is a little low, but might be okay if the truck had been on, but not running for a while. You may want to have your battery load tested. G electronics seem to be very sensitive to low system voltage. But what really counts is the running voltage.
I would focus on error codes C22A770, C22AA90, and C22AB00. You may want to clear them (now that you have documented them) and check and see if the come back before the next IC berserk episode or after. Ideally you would want to scan while the episode is happening.
I would also check the CAN bus jumper blocks to make sure all those connections are tight.
Thanks for your insight.
The car was running for a while before with was shut off and read to get 11.87v at the battery.
I will check the voltage again this morning since it has cooled off over night and also get the voltage while it’s running.
with regards to the codes, I assume these are all controlled by one module. Any idea which module that is?
Also, please don’t be mad at a humble student but where is the CAN BUS jumper block? Would like to check it as you suggested.
So I hooked the car up again this morning and ran the diagnostic again without starting the car so i can get the battery voltage when not running. The battery voltage was fluctuating between a low of 11.79 to a high of 11.89. All below 12v. Is that an indication of the battery not holding a charge?
I read the fault codes and for 4 faults: The obvious faulty parking sensors and oil valve faults from the previous day AND two new codes (B210D16) related to the driver and from passenger seats.
Upon delving into these two new codes, Both codes had to do with low power voltage. Seen below.
Moving on, I used the tool to check and self-test different modules including the ESP, Instrument Cluster and Battery. Everything checked out ok with no faults or codes.
I proceeded to self test the battery and got;
Before starting Truck: 11.79 - 11.89
After starting Truck: Rose to a steady 14.6
After turning truck off: Dropped and stayed at 12v for the few minutes before i exited the car.
Is battery the culprit? Am yet to check the CAN BUS jumper block though.
Last edited by just1time; May 25, 2021 at 10:07 PM.
bought a fox well battery analyzer and Load tested the battery yesterday.
With no
load On it and car at rest battery read 12.4v. So I guess that’s fine.
under load it test 14.6v which I guess is also fine.
I used it to test the charging system also, and all seems to be fine. So I guess I can rule out the battery as the cause of the sporadic issue.
the battery shows Q18 as date on it though. Not sure if that means it was manufactured then or expires and needs to be changed by then?
The Varta date of mfr code should be stamped on the negative terminal post in ww-yy format. I have the same Foxwell battery analyzer and it seems dependable. One of its screens displays 2 parameters "SOH" (state of health) and "SOC" (state of charge) -- both as percent values. Did you record these? The voltages you did record don't seem sufficiently abnormal to affect the IC. If the battery can start the vehicle, it should operate its electronics.
Thanks.
What this seems to be narrowing down to is intermittent lack of signal to different systems and certain periods of starting the car.
Haven't figured out how to check the Can bus terminals as Flobbydust suggested above. Have to figure out how to check the CanBus and its terminals. Learning all this on the go.
I just noticed the two B210-D16 low voltage codes. What modules are these for? For most MB modules, this code will be set if the supply voltage drops below 8 volts at any time. This makes me wonder if you have a bad (intermittent) connection somewhere. Check the battery connections, including the chassis ground connection. Also check the various +12 (circuit 30) distribution blocks. Make sure they are clean, good, and tight.
Last edited by Floobydust; Jun 5, 2021 at 03:38 PM.
Thanks.
What this seems to be narrowing down to is intermittent lack of signal to different systems and certain periods of starting the car.
Haven't figured out how to check the Can bus terminals as Flobbydust suggested above. Have to figure out how to check the CanBus and its terminals. Learning all this on the go.
One more diagnostic question -- do the analog gauges have illumination back-lighting at night when they stop working?
Yes, everything illuminates just fine as it should.
Knowing this, I'm inclined to believe it is related to the data circuit(s) on the CAN and/or LIN bus(es), and there is an intermittent connection or condition. It's odd, however, that the gauge operation starts out OK, then fails, but returns to normal after shutting off the car and restarting it. The instrument cluster likely has a couple of controller modules that interface the CAN bus, grab data and then convert it for use by all the gauges and indicator lights. There could be a defective voltage regulator that powers the gauge controller, and it is sensing some real or make-believe condition and shuts off its output and the controller feeding the gauges goes dead. Restarting the car resets this regulator and things return to normal until it happens again. This is all speculation, and the solution likely involves yanking the IC out for inspection/repair.
BTW, have you noticed any thermal affect on the gauge behavior? Is failure more or less likely after the car interior is hot from sitting in the sun?
Knowing this, I'm inclined to believe it is related to the data circuit(s) on the CAN and/or LIN bus(es), and there is an intermittent connection or condition. It's odd, however, that the gauge operation starts out OK, then fails, but returns to normal after shutting off the car and restarting it. The instrument cluster likely has a couple of controller modules that interface the CAN bus, grab data and then convert it for use by all the gauges and indicator lights. There could be a defective voltage regulator that powers the gauge controller, and it is sensing some real or make-believe condition and shuts off its output and the controller feeding the gauges goes dead. Restarting the car resets this regulator and things return to normal until it happens again. This is all speculation, and the solution likely involves yanking the IC out for inspection/repair.
BTW, have you noticed any thermal affect on the gauge behavior? Is failure more or less likely after the car interior is hot from sitting in the sun?
Yes, I have noticed this usually happens after hours of extensive driving and the truck is hot. Just an observation. I drive for few hours running my errands and I come back, start the car and gauges are dead and all dash warning lights are lit. I shut it off and start it right back up and it goes back to normal functioning. However, sometimes it doesn't go back to normal immediately. I usually just park as my day is done and go upstairs and next time I restart, all is fine.
So, one could guess it happens when truck is hot and has ran for a while (its my DD and I drive a LOT)
Yes, I have noticed this usually happens after hours of extensive driving and the truck is hot. Just an observation. I drive for few hours running my errands and I come back, start the car and gauges are dead and all dash warning lights are lit. I shut it off and start it right back up and it goes back to normal functioning. However, sometimes it doesn't go back to normal immediately. I usually just park as my day is done and go upstairs and next time I restart, all is fine.
So, one could guess it happens when truck is hot and has ran for a while (its my DD and I drive a LOT)
Thermal inducement of the effect could also be indicative of a latent manufacturing defect on the IC's printed circuit board assembly, where a connection is intermittent due to expansion/contraction. Removal, inspection and repair is required in this case.
Thermal inducement of the effect could also be indicative of a latent manufacturing defect on the IC's printed circuit board assembly, where a connection is intermittent due to expansion/contraction. Removal, inspection and repair is required in this case.
Yikes. This I won't be able to tackle. I have a guy who does instrument clusters. Maybe I will get him to take it out and inspect it for any break in the circuit board assembly.
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