Iceman's C230

It seems like BMW makes faster street car's than MB does. What is your opinion? Are they more superior? Are we loosing out to BMW? Do they make faster street cars like the M5's or the M3's compared with AMG's? Just asking so don't flame me..

Lynn

Faster, by itself, does not mean better. There are many items to evaluate to select the better car and speed is just one of them. And remember, while some of these items can be quantified, many are subjective.

TimmyC230boy

well if you mean, 17% of all M3's have blown their engines, then yes they have better cars. But like Lynn said faster doesnt mean better.

tommy

BMW is better in some, MB in others. I will agree that BMWs definitely feel sportier when driving; I'm already tired of the floaty feeling that I've got in my ccoupe that I don't think would have been there in a 3 series. It'll be corrected, but I do think that BMWs out of the box are more ready for a race by far than MBs. Motorweek just did a test of the M roadster vs. the SLK AMG. The M won, mostly because it was more fun to drive. Look at the availability of mannies as an example of who's more serious about driving fun.

About your grammar: it's just awful. There is no such thing as "more superior"; we would be losing, not loosing; car's is the possessive, cars is the plural; you use "then" incorrectly. I realize that this is just a silly forum, but it makes it easier to read when you attempt to keep it real.

Iceman's C230

About your grammar: it's just awful. There is no such thing as "more superior"; we would be losing, not loosing; car's is the possessive, cars is the plural; you use "then" incorrectly. I realize that this is just a silly forum, but it makes it easier to read when you attempt to keep it real. [/B][/QUOTE]

Sorry about the grammar tommy. I am just an unaducated bumm who drives a MB.

TomGuy

I believe he used "than" correctly since he is comparing two items.

But this is not a forum to discuss grammar, is it now?

young

sportier driving? yes. better (in a larger sense)? i don't think so.

but cars aren't like a religion to me. i appreciate a lot of different makes. as long as they both continue to make good cars, it's just makes buying my next car a harder decision; that's a good thing.

vadim

to each his own... Having had 2 bimmers and the coupe being my 1st MB, I do miss a lot of things in it that I know I'd have in a bimmer... Floaty suspension in what is supposed to be a sporty car is almost embarrassing... I'll fix it as soon as I figure out what the best way is. H&R springs + Bilsteins seems to be the way to go, unless someone offers a better solution.
ASP pulley is on the way - there goes the coupe's slowness compared to most known pests

I don't like to be one of the many - as was rightfully noticed, there are gazillions of bimmers around, whereas the c coupe is still a rare bird. That alone makes it worth having. Plus, it is priced unbelievably low in the US - let me remind you, it's almost on par with the CLK and more expensive than Audi TT in Europe!

KJ-TypeR

Now Now Timmy, that's a HUGE exaggeration.

90% of the M3's that blew their engines were built in October and November of 2001. This is when BMW made a bearing change to try and stop the FEW engine problems that were cropping up. Unfortunately, the boring machines were not recalibrated after the bearing change and thus the rash of engine failures for October and November builds.

I think there has only been 1 engine failure in all the cars built from December 2001 to the present. (which may be attributed to driver error). This shows that the problem is now solved.

On another note, I smoked a Cokky goof in a Camaro Z28 on the weekend. He was alone and I had THREE people in my car and it was big time a$$ whooping. I wasn't even pushing my car all the way when I raced him. Afterwards, I noticed that my air conditioning was on too! HAHAHA

jswedberg

Dodge cars are the best. The Viper is quicker than any Mercedes, BMW, or Rolls Royce. And it cost less than many of those "lesser" cars, too!

Therefore all Dodges are better than all other cars.

Next best cars are Chevrolets. The Corvette Z06 costs less than my C32 and accelerates quicker, therefore it is much better and I am a fool.



If the only important thing is the 0-60 time or top speed, don't buy a MB - you're missing the point.

TimmyC230boy

KJ- it was meant to be an exaggeration. They are great engines so long as you dont over rev it. I forget the website i saw it at but I know there were over 50 posts that claimed blown engines on the M3. Either way I'm glad I don't have one.


Ahh... found it there is 63 not 50 http://members.roadfly.org/jason/m3engines.htm

Duffer

Hi Vadim.

Kleemann tells me some of his customers have installed Kleemann springs on their coupes and that this change has greatly improved the dynamics of the car -- To quote: "After fitting our springs to several coupes last week I would like to suggest that you look to springs to solve your bouncing/wallowing issue. The 1" reduction in ride ht and the stiffer spring rate have completely changed the dynamic of the car- outstanding."

Also: "A shock dampens the compression and rebound of a spring- make the spring stiffer and the shock essentially has an easier job to do. Turn the situation around- lets say Bilstien Sports on stock springs- then the shock has too much to do and can die an early death.

No doubt in my mind that the stock shocks are up to the task.

Our springs lower only about 1" on the coupe. There will be a small increase
in negative camber- but still within spec. The W203 chassis has NO
adjustment for camber- gone are the days of the infinite front end
adjustments from MBZ. MBZ offers "taxicab" control arm bolts for "severe"
cases. These are off set control arm bolts which will contribute -/+ .6 deg
to camber. Always re-align after suspension work as camber will effect toe
etc."

So add the above to our knowledge base

tommy

Any idea if Kleemann springs are re-badged Eibachs or another brand?

The 1" drop sounds eerily like an Eibach Pro-kit setup. And I'm sure that the price would be cheaper for the Eibachs.

Does anyone here have the stock shocks with aftermarket springs? It'd be nice to hear from someone with that setup, as I've heard many complaints of doing a spring change without changing the shocks on other cars, and them not working together well.

Lynn

The Kleemann springs are progressive rate springs, while the Eibachs Pro-kit springs are not. I don't know who makes Kleemann's springs.

KJ-TypeR

Well Tommy, I'm obviously aware of that site. And if you looked around the site, you would've noticed the useful piechart located here:

Engine Failure Chart

As you can see from that chart, only ONE engine built in the year 2002 has blown.

49% of the engines that blew were built in November 2001, the other 25% were blown in October and December. The remaining 26% of the engine failures were from cars built BEFORE Octoboer 2001.

I agree that there have been engine problems with the new BMW M3, but like I had said in my previous post, the problems have already been sorted out, and were isolated to the M3's built in the year 2001.

I can say that I'm glad that I don't own an M3 built in 2001, but I'm VERY happy that I own an M3 that's built in May 2002.

tommy

KJ - be very careful with your vowels!

I'm sure that Timmy doesn't want to be confused with me, and I have no interest in selling insurance.

TimmyC230boy

I knew what he meant, no prob

Boo2

How many people here who are talkin smack about BMW have actually even owned one? And how many people here are first time Mercedes buyers? I'm just trying to be open-minded, and I think that experience has alot to do with these comparisons. So if your friend has one, that is still different. It's like asking someone with no girlfriend for relationship advice. Opinions based on observation don't come close to experience. Both cars are great, but both cars have their specialty. My crossover to Mercedes was not because it is a far superior car, but because my needs changed. Instead of looking for an all-out sports car, I wanted something that was a hybrid between sport and luxury. This is a Mercedes forum so, yes, I agree that we all favor the Benz. I just don't think we should move over to the "BMW is a piece of $h!t and Mercedes a a much better car" mentality.

Timmy - If cost wasn't an issue, would you really pass-up an M3 for a C-coupe? I don't think anyone in their right mind would. I met this guy over the weekend who had a 11-sec Dinan M3 (would make almost everyone on this site eat their words). No problems so far and he tracks it and drives hard on the street. Impressive but still doesn't make me regret getting the C32 over it. Everycar has had issues, but I don't think reliability has really been one for both Mercedes or BMW. You won't see many blown engines for Mercedes because a majority of them are automatics. Driver error is most likely the issue, and it is more tempting to go overboard with a sports car.

TimmyC230boy

Boo2- I didnt say anything about the integrity of the other BMW engine, just the M3. No, even if price wasnt an issue i still wouldnt want a M3, SMG or not. They just don't fit my style. But none the less it IS an incredible car, to the right person. Its tghe same as a Viper, great car but its just not for me. I have driven a new M3 with the SMG tranny, its a very fast and very fun to drive car, but it just didnt fit with me.

KJ-TypeR

I'm definitely not here saying BMW is better than Mercedes or vice versa.

My Dad own's an S500. My mom owns a W202 C-Class, and my girlfriend owns a C230K.

I'm actually the only person that owns a BMW in my family. Everyone else drives a Mercedes.

Mercedes just doesn't offer something that suits my needs. I wanted a car that was very sporty looking, MANUAL transmission, and fast as hell.

Mercedes may offer the C32, but it just doesn't offer the driving experience I was looking for. I'm not saying it's bad, it just isn't what I was looking for. On the other hand, my father would never drive a BMW, my mom would rather have a C-Class than a 3-series, and for the money, my girlfriend would MUCH rather have a C230K than a BMW 320. (I totally agree).

Since I frequent both the Mercedes and BMW Message boards, I can honestly say that a lot of the Mercedes guys think BMW sucks, and a lot of the BMW guys think Mercedes sucks. To me, I think both are great, but they cater to different markets. BMW is oriented more towards people who want a sporty car that's luxurious, Mercedes is oriented towards people who want luxury with some sporty charachter.

SoCal240/6

I also frequent boards of both marques, and I can tell you that you guys here talk about BMWs 100X more than BMW guys talk about MBs.

In fact, I very, very rarely see anyone on a BMW board say anything bad about MB.

SoCal240/6

That a 333 hp, fire-breathing M3 does not fit the "style" of a C230 Automatic driver is not surprising at all.

raymond

I'm both an ex-BMW and MB owner, and I would like to give my impressions on the subject.

I had a 1983 BMW 320i coupe. From new it was very troublesome, with several high dollar items failing at some point or other in the first three years, the most notable being 2 head gaskets in 60 000 km. I could only drool with envy at my Mercedes-owning acquaintances who seemingly had no problems at all...

I finally sold the BMW in 1997( with 240 000 km) and it was still going, and fetched 60% of the original purchase price (the currency probably devalued 400% in the meanwhile, but that's another story). As much as I did not trust the car at all, it was still going after 14 years, and I had everything working when I sold it except for the headlight height adjuster.

In November 2001 we bought our first MB (C230K), and to cut a long story short, eventually dumped it because it was the biggest disappointment of my life, with a range of faults from the excruciantingly irritating to the downright dangerous.

In my opinion (please note), while BMW has constantly improved quality, design and reliability, MB has gone the other way. That having been said, what was the guy who designed the new 7 series smoking when he regurgitated that shape?

Accord

*COUGH* https://mbworld.org/forums/showthrea...&threadid=9842

Moving to General MB Discussion.

Buellwinkle

Raymond, while you were envying MBs in '83 I was doing my first lemon law deal with MB on my '84 190. They eventually gave me a new one but that one wasn't much better, a transmission, horn and radio replace after 1 week. So while you think MB quality has slipped, I think it's stayed the same. As for BMW's, I work with people with various BMW's and they have their share of issues. It's just German cars, they used to be good compared to crappy american cars of the '70s and ''80s but don't hold a candle to american built cars today. That's why my wife drives a Honda, american build quality with Japanese value. Even cars that are made in Japan are not keeping up. I leased an Infiniti I30 because I believed it was better than the Maxima because the Infiniti was made in Japan and the Maxima was made in the US. Boy was I wrong, the Infiniti was my 2nd lemon law deal, my buddy's Maxima had zero problems.

BTW, I'm driving my 14th loaner that I got last Friday, not too shabby for a 2002 car.