A very sad day...
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Jul 2004
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From: Tampa Bay, FL
Something on 4 wheels..
A very sad day...
..when I read the German article today that Mercedes announced
THE END OF V12 engine development and their replacement by V8s in the future.
For those who can read German:
http://auto.t-online.de/c/12/82/01/6...0162,si=0.html
THE END OF V12 engine development and their replacement by V8s in the future.
For those who can read German:
http://auto.t-online.de/c/12/82/01/6...0162,si=0.html
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Can't blame them with all the energy conserving mod in the world and the fact that they really did not have much of a demand for the V12. Much more cost and energy effectivness in putting the V8 in those vehicles.
Thread Starter
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Something on 4 wheels..
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From: Calgary Alberta Canada
2001 Mercedes CL500 2006 E350 4-matic
The current V-12 (M275) engine will be updated one more time, then the Bi-Turbo V-8 will replace the V-12. - So there is still lots of time to get a V-12.... if that's want you want..
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On a even more limited production basis the cost to build would be out of sight raising the retail price to a point where no one would purchase. It could double or more than it is now. Try to understand the economics of mass production and you will see why.
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No one (at least me) is asking them to be cheap.
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I am not accusing you of being cheap. There are however economics of scale, not to mention the spare parts, labor and other costly items to support these rare engines that makes it economically not feasable to build considering that the V8 puts out similar power. If you really want a V12 there are still other choices out there some of which offer more performance than the MB.
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This is a production move for relatively mass-produced cars. The Zonda is a limited production supercar. If the Pagani will continue to use this motor, I don't see why AMG would cut them off. I would assume they get to charge a boat load and receive some free marketing in the process. The Zonda is powered by a bigger, leaner, more aggressive variant of the M120 V12. The basic architecture for that engine was around since as early as 1990. Says something about the quality and potential. 
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I see they are making the same mistake Jaguar did back in 1997. Ever since they discontinued their V12 the company has suffered brand identity issues. That will leave the 12 cylinder market to BMW and VW.
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Jags 12 cyl was obsolete and a maint nightmare. As for the 12 cyl market, world wide its miniscule and not large enough to be profitable for 1 mfg let alone several.
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How was it obsolete? When you get rid of your V12 powerplant you go from being a world class car manufacturer to just another car company.
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Sosh is trying to make sense out of this. Put another way, every for-profit company makes decisions like these based on the marketplace. So, they must not be selling enough of them to justify the cost of production. I doubt that the low fuel efficiency has had that much influence on their decision.
Last edited by Musikmann; Dec 10, 2008 at 04:40 PM. Reason: grammar
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It is a sad day though... having a M275 V12 myself a V8 will be a miserable substitute.... And its not about power at all.. definitely not about bragging rights... it is about smoothness, balanced design... linear power delivery, endless torque, the whole big heavy benz sedan feel... A V8 does not feel the same...
Chris
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Sosh is trying to make sense out of this. Put another way, every for-profit company makes decisions like these based on the marketplace. So, they must not be selling enough of them to justify the cost of production. I doubt that the low fuel efficiency has had that much influence on their decision.
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There is no sign of a new BMW V12 in the new 7-series. There was talk of MB and BMW (And AM) collaborating on a new V12 of MB design (M295) but that has fallen away... Unlikely MB would drop the V12 if BMW was also not doing so... Be interesting to see what Audi does with the W12.. also interesting questions about future engines for Maybach and Rolls Royce...
It is a sad day though... having a M275 V12 myself a V8 will be a miserable substitute.... And its not about power at all.. definitely not about bragging rights... it is about smoothness, balanced design... linear power delivery, endless torque, the whole big heavy benz sedan feel... A V8 does not feel the same...
Chris
It is a sad day though... having a M275 V12 myself a V8 will be a miserable substitute.... And its not about power at all.. definitely not about bragging rights... it is about smoothness, balanced design... linear power delivery, endless torque, the whole big heavy benz sedan feel... A V8 does not feel the same...
Chris
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There is no sign of a new BMW V12 in the new 7-series. There was talk of MB and BMW (And AM) collaborating on a new V12 of MB design (M295) but that has fallen away... Unlikely MB would drop the V12 if BMW was also not doing so... Be interesting to see what Audi does with the W12.. also interesting questions about future engines for Maybach and Rolls Royce...
It is a sad day though... having a M275 V12 myself a V8 will be a miserable substitute.... And its not about power at all.. definitely not about bragging rights... it is about smoothness, balanced design... linear power delivery, endless torque, the whole big heavy benz sedan feel... A V8 does not feel the same...
Chris
It is a sad day though... having a M275 V12 myself a V8 will be a miserable substitute.... And its not about power at all.. definitely not about bragging rights... it is about smoothness, balanced design... linear power delivery, endless torque, the whole big heavy benz sedan feel... A V8 does not feel the same...
Chris
Couldn't have said it better. I talked to guys at my dealership about this today and not one of them knew of this news.
I'm very upset about this news.
