Random Misfire, Smoke, gas smell and Ambient Air Temperature Problem
09-04-2018, 08:40 AM
#1
Random Misfire, Smoke, gas smell and Ambient Air Temperature Problem
Hello everyone,
I purchased a 2008 GL450 with 154K miles, I have a check engine light on. I took it to the dealership and they told me that the following: Various faults in
ME-faults for right catalytic converter efficiency
Secondary air pump (performed actuation of secondary air pump, turns on but is very loud and has no output)
Outside temperature sensor
Random misfire on all 8 cylinders.
I have replaced the catalytic converter
I have replaced outside temperature (but it still shows +185 degree on the dash)
replaced all 8 spark plugs
replaced secondary pump with a used one (swapped with my 2007)
It was also giving me no start problem while it was hot. So I replaced the crank Position sensor.
Current condition:
It is still giving me chick engine light, random misfire on all eight cylinders. Yesterday when I tried to start it started smoking like (mother brother very thick white/blueish smoke) I turned it off and cleared the codes with OBDII (scanner from Autozone) then check engine light went off no smoke and no misfire. Drove for about 3-4 minutes and again check engine light came on (it also flashed for like maybe minute or 2 then solid) it started misfiring again. scanned with OBDII scanner and the following codes are back:
P0072 Ambient Air Temperature
P0300 Random Misfire Detected
P0301 Cylinder 1 misfire
P0271 Cylinder 4 injector Circuit High
P0305 Cylinder 5 Misfire Detected
P0410 Secondary Air Injection System
P0446 Evaporative Emission System Vent Control Circuit
Anyone any idea what could be the problem? I do have 2007 GL450 where I can swap the parts and see if that takes care the problem.
I purchased a 2008 GL450 with 154K miles, I have a check engine light on. I took it to the dealership and they told me that the following: Various faults in
ME-faults for right catalytic converter efficiency
Secondary air pump (performed actuation of secondary air pump, turns on but is very loud and has no output)
Outside temperature sensor
Random misfire on all 8 cylinders.
I have replaced the catalytic converter
I have replaced outside temperature (but it still shows +185 degree on the dash)
replaced all 8 spark plugs
replaced secondary pump with a used one (swapped with my 2007)
It was also giving me no start problem while it was hot. So I replaced the crank Position sensor.
Current condition:
It is still giving me chick engine light, random misfire on all eight cylinders. Yesterday when I tried to start it started smoking like (mother brother very thick white/blueish smoke) I turned it off and cleared the codes with OBDII (scanner from Autozone) then check engine light went off no smoke and no misfire. Drove for about 3-4 minutes and again check engine light came on (it also flashed for like maybe minute or 2 then solid) it started misfiring again. scanned with OBDII scanner and the following codes are back:
P0072 Ambient Air Temperature
P0300 Random Misfire Detected
P0301 Cylinder 1 misfire
P0271 Cylinder 4 injector Circuit High
P0305 Cylinder 5 Misfire Detected
P0410 Secondary Air Injection System
P0446 Evaporative Emission System Vent Control Circuit
Anyone any idea what could be the problem? I do have 2007 GL450 where I can swap the parts and see if that takes care the problem.
09-04-2018, 11:24 AM
#2
Member
Have you tried to test the ignition coils? Check if the are producing the same voltage, this is better done with a oscilloscope.
09-04-2018, 06:32 PM
#3
No I have not for the following two reasons, 1 dealer told me that the coils are fine only spark plugs were bad and 2 its random misfire if it was giving me specific cylinder I would have thought that it could be coils.
But I'll swap them with the other vehicle and check it.
But I'll swap them with the other vehicle and check it.
09-04-2018, 06:39 PM
#4
I would start with making sure the battery is in top shape.
then i would swap around coils to see if misfires move around too. If they don’t you have a bad plug controller, but most likely you have bad coils
on evap system- your evap purge is stuck. Common. Or evap canister is soaked with fuel (too much top off) and needs to be replaced.
You need star/ das to see the “light” on this one. Generic obd codes will only clue you so much before You are ready to pull your hair.
then i would swap around coils to see if misfires move around too. If they don’t you have a bad plug controller, but most likely you have bad coils
on evap system- your evap purge is stuck. Common. Or evap canister is soaked with fuel (too much top off) and needs to be replaced.
You need star/ das to see the “light” on this one. Generic obd codes will only clue you so much before You are ready to pull your hair.
Last edited by alx; 09-04-2018 at 06:41 PM.
09-12-2018, 10:43 AM
#5
i have swapped the coils around and it is still same random misfires. Even I have seen codes for all eight cylinders have misfire.
Taking it to the dealership and will update once I get the codes from them.
The not starting after a short drive is back as well and it cranks makes a sound like there is no spark coming.
Taking it to the dealership and will update once I get the codes from them.
The not starting after a short drive is back as well and it cranks makes a sound like there is no spark coming.
11-14-2018, 10:59 AM
#6
I changed the Crank Position Sensor. When I was changing it I noticed that the connector locking pin was broken off. It had corrosion in the connector.
The vehicle is back from the dealership and it never did no start after getting engine hot. But they are suggesting that I replace the connector.
I have bought the new connector and now need to know how to do it. Did anyone ever replace the connector on this. I can hardly put 1 hand in the place and not sure how to tackle this.
The vehicle is back from the dealership and it never did no start after getting engine hot. But they are suggesting that I replace the connector.
I have bought the new connector and now need to know how to do it. Did anyone ever replace the connector on this. I can hardly put 1 hand in the place and not sure how to tackle this.
Last edited by bhuter24; 11-14-2018 at 02:05 PM.
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11-15-2018, 09:24 AM
#8
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2007 GL450
i have swapped the coils around and it is still same random misfires. Even I have seen codes for all eight cylinders have misfire.
Taking it to the dealership and will update once I get the codes from them.
The not starting after a short drive is back as well and it cranks makes a sound like there is no spark coming.
Taking it to the dealership and will update once I get the codes from them.
The not starting after a short drive is back as well and it cranks makes a sound like there is no spark coming.
If you have an Icarsoft, you can dig into details like the signals from the oxy sensors.
Ambient temperature is needed for MAF calculations. I don't know but I'd assume that sensor is integrated with the MAF sensor. What sensor did you replace? Since it's stuck high, I'd guess it's an electrical fault in the connection.
It's hard for me to imagine that the connector actually needs replacing, unless the wire has failed, as I've seen on the headlights.. I'd clean it with a wire brush first. I wouldn't worry about the latch.
The green corrosion - was this vehicle exposed to salt?!?
P0446 looks like it's the solenoid. It's a ~$100 module on Ebay. But that should give you a CEL and not much more. Low priority.
Last edited by eric_in_sd; 11-15-2018 at 09:37 AM.
11-15-2018, 10:48 AM
#9
Did you clear the codes after moving the coil around? I struggled with a misfire (see thread on P0305) until I figured out I needed to reset the system after changing the coil. For some reason it does not reset itself. Like a long exorcism, that one nearly killed me, only for me to find out the initial fix was right all along.
If you have an Icarsoft, you can dig into details like the signals from the oxy sensors.
Ambient temperature is needed for MAF calculations. I don't know but I'd assume that sensor is integrated with the MAF sensor. What sensor did you replace? Since it's stuck high, I'd guess it's an electrical fault in the connection.
It's hard for me to imagine that the connector actually needs replacing, unless the wire has failed, as I've seen on the headlights.. I'd clean it with a wire brush first. I wouldn't worry about the latch.
The green corrosion - was this vehicle exposed to salt?!?
P0446 looks like it's the solenoid. It's a ~$100 module on Ebay. But that should give you a CEL and not much more. Low priority.
If you have an Icarsoft, you can dig into details like the signals from the oxy sensors.
Ambient temperature is needed for MAF calculations. I don't know but I'd assume that sensor is integrated with the MAF sensor. What sensor did you replace? Since it's stuck high, I'd guess it's an electrical fault in the connection.
It's hard for me to imagine that the connector actually needs replacing, unless the wire has failed, as I've seen on the headlights.. I'd clean it with a wire brush first. I wouldn't worry about the latch.
The green corrosion - was this vehicle exposed to salt?!?
P0446 looks like it's the solenoid. It's a ~$100 module on Ebay. But that should give you a CEL and not much more. Low priority.
Does Icarsoft works better I can invest the money into it if its worth.
Ambient Sensor that is located at the front bumper.
Green corrosion - Yes the vehicle was owned by a Minnesota resident.
P0446 is low priority for me at this time.
My main concern to replace the Crank Position Sensor (CPS) connector is because after replacing the actual sensor it is still doing the same thing (won't start when it is hot)
I know you are saying that you don't believe that it is the connector but I just want to replace it because of the green corrosion so take out that possibility.
Any idea how hard it would be to replace it? should I try to get to it from the bottom or top. I know I would probably will have to remove some harness clips to get more room and harness free to work on it.
Thanks
11-15-2018, 12:50 PM
#10
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2007 GL450
Like I said, I tore my hair out when it turned out to be a bad or marginal coil. I think the computer goes into a limited state in order to protect the catalytic converters, and resists going out of that state unless you know what you're doing.
You can also get $10 bluetooth modules that plug into the OBD connector; you can then access basic OBD data on the fly. Highly recommended. I used it to monitor coolant temp, for example, while towing up a hill in the desert.
Ambient Sensor that is located at the front bumper.
Green corrosion - Yes the vehicle was owned by a Minnesota resident.
My main concern to replace the Crank Position Sensor (CPS) connector is because after replacing the actual sensor it is still doing the same thing (won't start when it is hot)
I know you are saying that you don't believe that it is the connector but I just want to replace it because of the green corrosion so take out that possibility.
Any idea how hard it would be to replace it? should I try to get to it from the bottom or top. I know I would probably will have to remove some harness clips to get more room and harness free to work on it.
Green corrosion - Yes the vehicle was owned by a Minnesota resident.
My main concern to replace the Crank Position Sensor (CPS) connector is because after replacing the actual sensor it is still doing the same thing (won't start when it is hot)
I know you are saying that you don't believe that it is the connector but I just want to replace it because of the green corrosion so take out that possibility.
Any idea how hard it would be to replace it? should I try to get to it from the bottom or top. I know I would probably will have to remove some harness clips to get more room and harness free to work on it.
11-26-2018, 12:17 PM
#11
Definitely. It's about $100. The MBII gets closer to the STAR, but the base icarsoft gives you all kinds of data stream stuff.
Like I said, I tore my hair out when it turned out to be a bad or marginal coil. I think the computer goes into a limited state in order to protect the catalytic converters, and resists going out of that state unless you know what you're doing.
You can also get $10 bluetooth modules that plug into the OBD connector; you can then access basic OBD data on the fly. Highly recommended. I used it to monitor coolant temp, for example, while towing up a hill in the desert.
I suspect many of your problems are related to salt corrosion in the connectors. Try a contact cleaner first. CRC and WD-40 make cleaner spray. I think it dissolves the corrosion. It's hard for me to imagine the connector itself failing. More likely it just needs to be cleaned.
Like I said, I tore my hair out when it turned out to be a bad or marginal coil. I think the computer goes into a limited state in order to protect the catalytic converters, and resists going out of that state unless you know what you're doing.
You can also get $10 bluetooth modules that plug into the OBD connector; you can then access basic OBD data on the fly. Highly recommended. I used it to monitor coolant temp, for example, while towing up a hill in the desert.
I suspect many of your problems are related to salt corrosion in the connectors. Try a contact cleaner first. CRC and WD-40 make cleaner spray. I think it dissolves the corrosion. It's hard for me to imagine the connector itself failing. More likely it just needs to be cleaned.
I have changed the Crank position sensor and the connector now. Cleared the codes with MB II. drove about 17 miles without any problems went to my friend house and turned off the vehicle. Again it won't start. waited for about 30 minutes and it started right up. Drove back to my house and scanned for the codes again.
- P0072 Component B14 (Ambient Temperature display temperature sensor) has a short circuit to ground. DTS Status: Current and Stored
- (P0351) Signal fault of ignition coil diagnosis of cylinder 1 DTS Status: Stored
- (P0022) Continuous camshaft adjustment Left); Incorrect position of the intake camshaft DTS Status: Stored
- (P2006) Diagnosis of tumble flap 'intake manifold' : open circuit of sensor lines / Tumble flap shafts stick in the nonactuated positon. DTS Status: Current and Stored
- M4/7(Engine and AC electric suction fan with integrated control) : output stage DTS Status: Stored
- (P0020) Component Y49/4(Left camshaft intake solenoid) has an open circut in the wiring. DTS Status: Stored
- (P0447) Component Y58/4(Activated charcoal canister shut-off valve) has a short circuit to positive. DTS Status: Stored
But this is where things are at this time.
Anyone has any idea?
11-26-2018, 06:09 PM
#12
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2007 GL450
Jeez, my heart goes out to you. I bet you've got rampant connector corrosion problems. Look on the bright side: It's better than component faults.
Regarding Current versus Stored: The computer notes the fault, and entirely depending on the fault and how the manufacturer opts to handle it, the computer waits for recurrence or elevates it to alert the humans.
Stored not current could be ages old. Did you clear all the DTC's? There's clearing the OBD faults and clearing the DTC's.
Regarding Current versus Stored: The computer notes the fault, and entirely depending on the fault and how the manufacturer opts to handle it, the computer waits for recurrence or elevates it to alert the humans.
Stored not current could be ages old. Did you clear all the DTC's? There's clearing the OBD faults and clearing the DTC's.
11-26-2018, 08:00 PM
#13
Member
Besides the corrosion on connectors, try a look on the voltage produced by the alternator, maybe you are having voltage peaks.
11-26-2018, 08:54 PM
#14
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Doesn't the battery exert a powerful stabilizing influence on the alternator output?
11-27-2018, 04:48 AM
#15
Member
Unfortunately no, as the power supplied by the alternator firstly send a signal between 5V and 7V to the ECU by this way the ECU controls most of the sensors of the engine, the first affected by this are the valve body position sensor, the crankshaft position sensor and the valve position sensor.
11-27-2018, 08:45 AM
#17
Jeez, my heart goes out to you. I bet you've got rampant connector corrosion problems. Look on the bright side: It's better than component faults.
Regarding Current versus Stored: The computer notes the fault, and entirely depending on the fault and how the manufacturer opts to handle it, the computer waits for recurrence or elevates it to alert the humans.
Stored not current could be ages old. Did you clear all the DTC's? There's clearing the OBD faults and clearing the DTC's.
Regarding Current versus Stored: The computer notes the fault, and entirely depending on the fault and how the manufacturer opts to handle it, the computer waits for recurrence or elevates it to alert the humans.
Stored not current could be ages old. Did you clear all the DTC's? There's clearing the OBD faults and clearing the DTC's.
Unfortunately no, as the power supplied by the alternator firstly send a signal between 5V and 7V to the ECU by this way the ECU controls most of the sensors of the engine, the first affected by this are the valve body position sensor, the crankshaft position sensor and the valve position sensor.
Please advise!
11-27-2018, 11:13 AM
#18
Member
This signal sent by the alternator voltage regulator is better measured by an electrician shop, as I don't live in USA, I don't know if they do this.
One of the simple mode to test if the alternator is sending the correct voltage is to connect a multimeter on the battery terminals and observe if it has between 12 and 12.4V without the engine running. When you start the engine the voltage is going to drop, but it can't drop less than 10.5V after that, in a few seconds, the alternator is going to supply the energy and it is normal to stay between 13.5 and 14.5V if you see mor than this or lesse than this, you have a problem with your alternator.
One of the simple mode to test if the alternator is sending the correct voltage is to connect a multimeter on the battery terminals and observe if it has between 12 and 12.4V without the engine running. When you start the engine the voltage is going to drop, but it can't drop less than 10.5V after that, in a few seconds, the alternator is going to supply the energy and it is normal to stay between 13.5 and 14.5V if you see mor than this or lesse than this, you have a problem with your alternator.
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11-27-2018, 12:48 PM
#19
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I forget what the interaction is between the two. Can't hurt to do both; just be sure to record the info before clearing it.
This is important because you need to know what is current and what is old.
Also, I bet your MBII gives you alternator voltage data and history. It will also do charts for you.
This is important because you need to know what is current and what is old.
Also, I bet your MBII gives you alternator voltage data and history. It will also do charts for you.
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bhuter24 (11-27-2018)
11-27-2018, 01:38 PM
#20
This signal sent by the alternator voltage regulator is better measured by an electrician shop, as I don't live in USA, I don't know if they do this.
One of the simple mode to test if the alternator is sending the correct voltage is to connect a multimeter on the battery terminals and observe if it has between 12 and 12.4V without the engine running. When you start the engine the voltage is going to drop, but it can't drop less than 10.5V after that, in a few seconds, the alternator is going to supply the energy and it is normal to stay between 13.5 and 14.5V if you see mor than this or lesse than this, you have a problem with your alternator.
One of the simple mode to test if the alternator is sending the correct voltage is to connect a multimeter on the battery terminals and observe if it has between 12 and 12.4V without the engine running. When you start the engine the voltage is going to drop, but it can't drop less than 10.5V after that, in a few seconds, the alternator is going to supply the energy and it is normal to stay between 13.5 and 14.5V if you see mor than this or lesse than this, you have a problem with your alternator.
I forget what the interaction is between the two. Can't hurt to do both; just be sure to record the info before clearing it.
This is important because you need to know what is current and what is old.
Also, I bet your MBII gives you alternator voltage data and history. It will also do charts for you.
This is important because you need to know what is current and what is old.
Also, I bet your MBII gives you alternator voltage data and history. It will also do charts for you.
I will have to read the book to see how to store the code before and after on MB II.
2nd note: I am thinking that Ambient Temp Sensor is the core (just feeling this way) because the service rep at the dealership told me that if the outside temp is not working the vehicle changes the fuel supplies and adjust according to outside temp. What do you guys think should i tackle this first. Do you know what is the voltage it should have? I can put the volt meter to see if it is getting any juice.
11-27-2018, 09:22 PM
#21
Member
Thanks
Ok thanks, will clear the codes when I go home.
I will have to read the book to see how to store the code before and after on MB II.
2nd note: I am thinking that Ambient Temp Sensor is the core (just feeling this way) because the service rep at the dealership told me that if the outside temp is not working the vehicle changes the fuel supplies and adjust according to outside temp. What do you guys think should i tackle this first. Do you know what is the voltage it should have? I can put the volt meter to see if it is getting any juice.
Ok thanks, will clear the codes when I go home.
I will have to read the book to see how to store the code before and after on MB II.
2nd note: I am thinking that Ambient Temp Sensor is the core (just feeling this way) because the service rep at the dealership told me that if the outside temp is not working the vehicle changes the fuel supplies and adjust according to outside temp. What do you guys think should i tackle this first. Do you know what is the voltage it should have? I can put the volt meter to see if it is getting any juice.
Best regards,
Sergio
11-28-2018, 12:02 PM
#22
I ran a test and it read consistently between 12 and 12.4V without the engine running.
When starting the engine the voltage rang was between 8.9 till 10.9V. Note only one time it was 8.9 rest of the time I think it was above 9.5V. I will be doing another test tonight when I go home.
When running it was always between 13.5 and 14.5V.
But since the vehicle was sitting and it was cold it started every time.
I live in Michigan so it is very cold in the evening and night.
When starting the engine the voltage rang was between 8.9 till 10.9V. Note only one time it was 8.9 rest of the time I think it was above 9.5V. I will be doing another test tonight when I go home.
When running it was always between 13.5 and 14.5V.
But since the vehicle was sitting and it was cold it started every time.
I live in Michigan so it is very cold in the evening and night.
11-28-2018, 05:36 PM
#23
Member
Well, it seems that the alternator is good as the battery, but if the voltage regulator is producing voltage peaks is sometimes difficult to detect.
Now we get back to the connectors, spark plug and it's wires, maybe, testing the resistance of the spark plugs can give us some more ideas. The spark plugs has to have similar resistance values.
Now we get back to the connectors, spark plug and it's wires, maybe, testing the resistance of the spark plugs can give us some more ideas. The spark plugs has to have similar resistance values.
11-29-2018, 08:18 AM
#24
Well, it seems that the alternator is good as the battery, but if the voltage regulator is producing voltage peaks is sometimes difficult to detect.
Now we get back to the connectors, spark plug and it's wires, maybe, testing the resistance of the spark plugs can give us some more ideas. The spark plugs has to have similar resistance values.
Now we get back to the connectors, spark plug and it's wires, maybe, testing the resistance of the spark plugs can give us some more ideas. The spark plugs has to have similar resistance values.
Note: All the spark plugs are brand new, I replaced them.
12-10-2018, 11:30 AM
#25
Update:
Yesterday I finally got sometime to test how it is holding the swapped coils. On my friends GL all the coils are holding up just fine. So i was not thrilled that it would fix my problem. Well I started the vehicle and let it run. It was about an half hour or 45 minutes when it just sat on idle. When I came back to check it out found out the it was running rough. White smoke was coming from the tail pipes. I scanned it and it gave me 10 codes this time. But I tried 3 time to shut it off and it always started right back up.
Codes:
P0072 Component B14(Ambient temperature display temperature has a short circuit to ground
M4/7(Engine and AC electric suction fan with integrated control) :Output stage DTC Status: Stored
P0020 Component Y49/4(Left camshaft intake solenoid) has an open circut in the wiring. DTC Status: Stored
P0447 Component Y58/4(Activated charcoal canister shut-off vavle) has a short circuit to positive. DTC Status: Stored
P0013 Component Y 49/6(Left camshaft exhaust solenoid) has an open circuit in the wiring. DTC Status: Stored
P0300 Misfiring DTC Status: Current and Stored
P0301 Misfiring of Cylinder 1: Damages TWC(P0301) DTC Status: Current and Stored
P0306 Misfiring of Cylinder 6: Damages TWC(P0306) DTC Status: Current and Stored
P0305 Misfiring of Cylinder 5: Damages TWC(P0305) DTC Status: Current and Stored
P0303 Misfiring of Cylinder 3: Damages TWC(P0303) DTC Status: Current and Stored
Anyone any idea?
Yesterday I finally got sometime to test how it is holding the swapped coils. On my friends GL all the coils are holding up just fine. So i was not thrilled that it would fix my problem. Well I started the vehicle and let it run. It was about an half hour or 45 minutes when it just sat on idle. When I came back to check it out found out the it was running rough. White smoke was coming from the tail pipes. I scanned it and it gave me 10 codes this time. But I tried 3 time to shut it off and it always started right back up.
Codes:
P0072 Component B14(Ambient temperature display temperature has a short circuit to ground
M4/7(Engine and AC electric suction fan with integrated control) :Output stage DTC Status: Stored
P0020 Component Y49/4(Left camshaft intake solenoid) has an open circut in the wiring. DTC Status: Stored
P0447 Component Y58/4(Activated charcoal canister shut-off vavle) has a short circuit to positive. DTC Status: Stored
P0013 Component Y 49/6(Left camshaft exhaust solenoid) has an open circuit in the wiring. DTC Status: Stored
P0300 Misfiring DTC Status: Current and Stored
P0301 Misfiring of Cylinder 1: Damages TWC(P0301) DTC Status: Current and Stored
P0306 Misfiring of Cylinder 6: Damages TWC(P0306) DTC Status: Current and Stored
P0305 Misfiring of Cylinder 5: Damages TWC(P0305) DTC Status: Current and Stored
P0303 Misfiring of Cylinder 3: Damages TWC(P0303) DTC Status: Current and Stored
Anyone any idea?
Last edited by bhuter24; 12-10-2018 at 11:33 AM.
