After a month wait, found out today that our 2022 GLE 450 had constraints on duramatic air suspension, HUD, dashboard cam, and augmented reality. I pulled the plug and got my deposit back. Disappointed really but most likely will end up in a cayenne gts. So it worked out for the best. But i wanted to let everyone know regardless of the constraint issues.

 

That's really frustrating about so many of your options without availability! My wife has a 21 GLE 580, and I have a '20 Cayenne Turbo (not too far off from the GTS). They're both excellent cars in their own way, and I think you'll be really happy with the GTS! See you over at Rennlist!

 

Sorry to hear MB couldn’t fulfill your order. Seems to be the rule more than the exception. The Cayenne GTS is far more vehicle than the GLE and I’m sure it will be love at first sight/drive.

GTS’s are being delivered without power adjustable steering column because of the chip mess. It’s a no charge fix at the dealer when the hardware becomes available. No official ETA on the hardware availability.

 

Manufacturers have been getting away with keeping a low inventory of components and relying on the "just in time" supply chain for the last 25 years. Now it's biting them in the ***.

 

I cancelled my GLE 63 order for the same reasons but am not sure Porsche or Audi are much better. What are you finding about availability and options on Porsche? I’ve been waiting and waiting for a Cayenne to test drive that isn’t pre-sold…they will let me take it for a few days.

The Audi RSQ8 & SQ8 orders are being delayed. A number of Audi V8’s are using a lot of oil…troublesome to me. At least Porsche /Audi seem to be leaving options intact and delaying delivery, a better choice, IMO.

Edit: I assume they use the same engine although the Audi SQ8 is rated at more HP than the GTS…500hp. Here’s one thread-
https://www.audiworld.com/forums/audi-q8-227/2021-sq8-low-oil-3015438/

There’s a link posted in a thread to CR where they say…

Excessive oil consumption isn't normal

Automakers say adding oil between scheduled changes is acceptable. It's not.

 

You need to drive similarly equipped cars, back to back, on the same roads. I have.
With the steel of basic air suspensions, I give the nod to the Cayenne.

But comparing the active suspensions, Porsche's PDDC vs. M-B's AMG ARC, M-B has taken a big leap forward and surpasses the Porsche version in both ride and handling. Equivalent tires with recommended pressures. The ARC and M-B's V167 is better, quicker, and more confidence-inspiring.

M-B has better seats and space, and it's a matter of preference which cockpit is better. I have (had) trouble with the Porsche new switchgear and now I prefer the "larger" GLE. I'm surprised because I don't usually like "larger" cars, but the GLE is superior in so many ways.

I tend to like Porsche colors better, though.

 

I agree with you except I don’t know about the handling of the current Gen’s. I would think that Porsche/Audi would handle at least as well with things like All Wheel Steering, Torque Vectoring & Active Roll Suspension. For me the handling of the AMG ARC is all I need or want but… Here is the option on the SQ8: $5900 Sport Pkg- Active Roll Stabilization(48 volt sway bar); Quattro Sport Rear (Torque Vectoring) Differential; Red Brake Calipers;


There don’t seem to be any Audi or Porsche “equipped right” that aren’t presold in Vegas, SLC or Boise. Sitting in them there is just no comparison to the ergonomics of the GLE. I’ll probably wait for the AMG Hybrids but still try to compare the competition. If I was buying anything but a GLE today it would be the SQ8. The Porsche name has more glamor but I think the SQ8 is better looking and on paper more car for the money. The slightly lower rear sloping roofline wouldn’t affect anything I would store in the hatch. It’s not a Coupe but not quite an SUV either.

 

^^^Agree, any Porsche presents significantly less value for the money for a comparable Mercedes model (in segments where they are comparable). Audi SQ8 offers a hell of a value with the above mentioned Sport Package+ by offering GLE53(with ARC) handling with GLE580 V8 engine in a single package at comparable price (maybe slightly more expensive for SQ8). If one can get passed SQ8's exterior (IMHO GLE53/63 is significantly classier) one gets arguably better looking interior (IMO SQ8's dash is well ahead) with a terrific handling V8. Mind bugling to me why MB is not offering 580 with ARC and the rest of that package. (Do not think it would cannibalize 63's sales at all).

 

I do quite like the SQ8, especially the exterior in all black, just looks mean. That being said like all vehicles its not perfect: The new MMI is a far cry from the old control wheel based one, the interior storage of most new Audi’s is abysmal, and typical with all Audi’s, the interior feels cheap and plasticky unless you pony up for an expensive leather package, also they’re still using cheap VW paddles. Still though, I’d definitely consider a nicely equipped one if shopping for a sporty SUV, and find a way to swap out those paddles!

OP, good choice on the Cayenne GTS, a fantastic driving SUV, you’re gonna love it!

 

From what I think I know (correct me if I’m wrong):

*Porsche isn’t updated to the 48 volt system like Audi-Mercedes
*P has 47 less HP-.2 seconds 0-60 slower…who cares.
*P lacks the 48 volt compressor/turbo boost thingy so more Turbo Lag
*P Roll Stabilization is done with the Air Suspension vs the newer 48 volt sway bar method that is faster, more reactive

Since I can’t find either to test drive that’s just what I can find from the net & Forums.

 

Here’s a little advance guess at Cayenne changes for 2022…nothing on a 48 volt system.
https://www.kbb.com/porsche/cayenne/2022/

 

Porsche GTS is way more expensive for what you get -- just adding a few packages to bring it on par with GLE 580 quickly gets to it to 125k+, which is a 63 territory. Keep going up and Urus is not that far away, all of a sudden. 😁

 

The SQ8, equipped with comparable performance / suspension options, is +$20,000. It has a V8, but the suspension feels dated and not as responsive as the GLE53. The SQ8 needs the rear wheel steering (standard I believe) to "feel" somewhat nimble - but not up to the GLE (with Dynamic Plus). If I wanted a V8 I'd get an AMG63S.

Plus the contraption they use to get the 48v system (true in all the VW Group) is a Rube Goldberg assortment of belts and VERY long intake runners - pretty primitive. It's Ram's recipe, too.

Throw in the ride and handling comparison, and the AMG 53 (or 63S which I haven't driven) is the class of the field.
For driving experience with the active suspensions, my ranking is 3. SQ8, 2. Cayenne GTS, and 1. GLE AMG. And I have checked - the PCA won't make me surrender my card for saying so.

 

^^^ You are entitled to your opinion, but so am I. Just because you disagree, does not make me wrong. I do not see $20K difference, but only $13K tops (GLE53 is about $95K as I would option it, while comparable SQ8 Prestige is what? about $108K WITH 500hp V8!) And you've missed the beef in my post: GLE53/580 "hybrid" would be an ultimate (if Audi can do it, why not Mercedes?).

 

That’s almost exactly my build dollars $95ish for my GLE 53 and 105-$110 for a comparable Audi SQ8...kind of in between 53-63. The GLE 63S is more engine than I want but the GLE has it all in so many other ways over Audi/BMW/Porsche for my personal taste. I guess we all see these a little different…no bad choices in that group. I think Porsche put their effort into the Taycan so it seems to be the least improved and they seem to look a lot the same each Gen.
While I haven’t driven either SQ or RSQ the customer built models I’ve seen seemed to have quality interiors. I like the V8, all wheel steer & torque vectoring but wouldn’t keep one past warranty. Dealer stock inventory never seems to have a well optioned Audi or Porsche. Mostly $68-70k Porsche inventory. Audi’s less sophisticated 48 volt system doesn’t leave you stranded if the battery fails since there is a normal belt driven water pump & alternator…but as Mikapen said it’s a step back in several other ways. Mercedes might soon decide to add a workaround for a 48 volt battery failure since they are moving all models to EQ Boost.
Edit: If you could jump start a GLE or even just run off the ISG it would help get rid of the stranded issue, IMO.

 

Thanks for pointing this out. Personally I would take "less sophisticated" over a remote (and as we've see here not as remote) possibility of getting stranded then not having the car for week(s). I am not advocating for Audi, as a former A8 D2 owner, I can not get passed their styling over the last decade (too avant-garde for me). I am MB loyalist for life with a one time A8 cheating (btw that was a fantastic and maybe the best car I ever had in terms of usage - put 100K miles on it in 6 years of ownership), hence I'm here and not on audiworld.

 

I'm not sure that we disagree, really, except on the price. My configuration on the AMG53 was $98,000 and an SQ7 with equivalent suspension goodies was $123,000, both configured at the dealer, and both without the fancy radio. I didn't configure an SQ8 because we prefer the SUV look.

As to an M-B hybrid, do you mean EQ boost? Or plug-in?

 

Just curious if you drove an Audi with the Sport Package? Most SQ8’s are spec’d with the Sport Pkg. (come standard with all wheel steer) by my local Dealer but all have been sold before arrival. You get more than an engine upgrade with the SQ8.
Judging from our 4 year old SQ5 I have to believe that the SQ8 will handle at least equivalent to or better than an AMG with a comparable ride from a comfort level. The Active Sway bar setup looks very similar to the Mercedes, maybe same Vendor sourced. Audi has a lower center of gravity that also requires more neck twisting to get into the cockpit. Torque vectoring and All Wheel Steer are not gimmicks, they do make a difference. The longer Audi intakes are simply a result of mounting the Turbo’s in the V to virtually eliminate Turbo Lag plus it has the 48 Volt electric Turbo Boost like the GLE53. Our SQ5 has a V mounted Turbo so I know how well that works.
I much prefer the looks, functionality and comfort of the GLE to the SQ8. Splitting hairs about handling, at this level, are less important than ergonomics. Porsche seems to always have a good suspension but it’s now dated…but will anyone notice or care? Both Porsche and Audi appear to be delivering vehicles with less issues than Mercedes if you look at Forum threads. But they also have lower production numbers.

 

Neither. By GLE53/580 "hybrid" I mean GLE53 with 580's engine or GLE580 with 53's AMG Dynamic+ and interior/exterior. "GLE58" would fit nicely between 53's $95K and 63's $120K, or about exactly where SQ8 is performance and price wise. I view SQ8 as a competitor to non-existent GLE58AMG and RSQ8 to GLE63. Obviously we're not going to get GLE58AMG (I can understand there was no W166 GLE55 because they dropped V8TT except for 63, hence V6 GLE43, but V167 has a V8 so why not GLE58?).

 

That’s exactly why some of us had trouble deciding between the 580 & 53. I had my Dealer make an inquiry before I placed my 53 order. I thought they might add the V8 and just call it a 63 no S.
Just reading a Daimler announcement…chip shortage to extend into 2022.👎

 

One minor correction. You're totally correct that my '20 CTT engine does not have the 48V mild hybrid assist (no one can touch MB's awesome system, which makes my wife's GLE580 so quick off the line). However, my Cayenne's PDCC (active roll stabilization) has a dedicated 48V supply that was a significant technical highlight in the 2019 redesign. Not sure how that compares (technologically-wise) to the AMG's ARC.

Best article: https://jalopnik.com/all-the-crazy-e...-po-1819386075 "The system, Porsche claims, is capable of producing 885 lb-ft of torque to twist the two parts of the sway bar against one another in turns. This means that the tall (but shorter than the current model) Cayenne can corner flat all the way up to 0.8G of lateral acceleration. It can, according to Bittner, even compensate for tire deformation to ensure true flatness."

C&D: https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...tures/?slide=1, "Whereas the old Cayenne’s similar system was electrohydraulic, the new setup is purely electromechanical, necessitating a 48-volt electrical supply apart from the regular 12-volt circuit."

If you're ever in Phoenix, AZ area, let me know and I'll let you compare the Cayenne's handling to the GLE's (though as you know you couldn't order ABC on the '21 580).

 

Thanks, that makes more sense since it’s available in the Audi. I couldn’t find the sway bar or 48 volt listed in the specs for the Cayenne GTS. I’m waiting for a delayed shipment to my Dealer for a test drive of a Porsche. How do you compare the creature comforts, interior between your two?
Edit-PDCC is an option and looks to use the air suspension vs the newer style sway bar system.

 

Yes it was, and that's exactly the comparison I was making in post #6 above.
I drove my ARC car up and back 20 miles on curvy Mountain Roads that I am very familiar with, 40 to 80 mph, then drove the Cayenne with PDCC snd rear steer, over the same route.
Both very nice but give M-B the nod here for ride and handling. That surprised me.
They are certainly both nice cars.

 

Ah, didn't realize you had actually driven both back-to-back, on your post #6 I thought you were comparing the on-paper technical specs (which I cannot find for GLE). I wish there was some way to settle down the floaty handling on the GLE w/o ARC.

 

That's a tough question.
* For quality of materials, the Cayenne has the edge. Though I would have gladly optioned premium leather on the GLE if it was available in a color other than black. GLE's sun visors are 10x better than the poor ones on the Cayenne. Ordering the "Topstitched MB-Tex upper dash and door trim" is a major improvement to the luxury feel of the GLE.
* My wife and the kids prefer the spaciousness and practicality of the GLE. The trunk space almost defies logic in its generous size. The GLE is a comfortable car, perhaps slightly quieter than the Cayenne. We have the acoustic package on both, don't ever skip this option unless you're on a tight budget.
* I prefer the adaptive sport seats in my Cayenne, which you cannot pair with massage. The massage on the GLE is great, but the seat cushion felt a bit too thin on 6+ hour road trips (but still tolerable).
* The 580 engine and transmission pairing is glorious; it is incredibly smooth and responsive until you get to higher speeds, where the Cayenne turbo engine shines.

There's a ton of information over on Rennlist, too, even a few threads comparing the GLE and Cayenne: https://rennlist.com/forums/cayenne-...yenne-gts.html