Frenetic

Are you saying the car will force me back into my lane even if there is nothing there? That’s what I’m saying. What the heck are you saying?

mikapen

Start at post #1 and read this thread. Several people have offered their help.

If you don't like the responses you receive from those helpful Forum members, read the Owners Manual and interpret it for yourself.

Maybe start a thread and ask how to do that!

Frenetic

I did the read the owner’s manual.

Explain to me why the car would jerk me back into my lane with LKA off, my blinker on, with no car in my blind spot or any other object to set off the blind spot alarm. That’s what I’ve said ad nasueum. What in the owner’s manual will address this? Speak up?

zengshengliu

Yep I know the differences. I do not have Distronic on, but have the Active Lane Keep Assist active at the time. After having the turn signal on for maybe 10 seconds (it was a "blind" corner to an exit so I have signal on early), when I start switching lane, the LKA pull me back into the lane. No early warning (vibration on steering wheel), just the brake application and the warning on dash.
I do know what you are talking about. With Distronic on, when you try to perform an automatic lane change (Active Lane Change Assist) and try to steer it yourself, it does sometimes try to fight you. But I believe that is from the "Active Steering Assist", not from the Lane Keep Assist (since its the steering wheel that is fighting you, not the brake)

zengshengliu

I think what you are experiencing is the "steering assist". Steering assist tries to keep you in the center of the lane when you have Distronic on. When you activate the turn signal ("lane change assist") and try to switch lane before the auto lane change initiated, the system will tries to "fight" you by pushing you back in the center of the lane using steering input initially. You will need to overcome this to override the system.
I believe what @mikapen is trying to tell you is that the "lane keep assist" is a different system, and uses brake application when you get close to the edge of the lane vs steering application on "steering assist" which tries to steer the car to keep it in the center lane.

If you prefer steering the car and lane change yourself, you might need to disable the "steering assist". But if you want to just disable the "active lane change assist" and keep the "active steering assist", I don't think its possible.
Edit:
Actually, you might be able to disable "Active Lane Change Assist" while keeping "Active Steering Assist" on.

Although I am not sure if the "Active Steering Assist" will still fight you when Distronic on.

superswiss

Looks like this thread has gone to the nuthouse. I've unsubscribed a while back, but just checked back as somebody liked one of my posts. OP, you might wanna take the car in and make sure the sensors are calibrated properly or give it some more time. How long have you had the car? In my owner's manual it states explicitly that the driving assistance systems have a break-in period during which they calibrate and learn, so the systems won't work fully right out of the box. Most of it is self-calibrating, but you have to use it in order to let it calibrate and not turn half of it off. It could always be that yours has a malfunction, or hasn't finished its calibration cycle. This is not something that anybody here can solve. So far it seems your experience is unique, and perhaps somewhat self-inflicted by turning off part of the system that is supposed to complement the active steering assist. I've tried a few different systems from various manufacturers and MB's system so far works the best. At the end of the day they are all just assistance system and should be used as such, and they are overall conservative in the name of safety. AMG does tune the assistance systems for their specific models, and the sportier the model the more leeway these systems give, with the 63 models being at the top. The SUVs are actually setup far more conservative and I've always wondered if the fact that the cameras are higher up and the vehicles are bulkier puts things at a disadvantage. I know the ESP for example is also quite conservative in the AMG SUVs even the 63 models compared to the sedans and the proper 2-door coupes.

Frenetic

I am taking it in and it happened again today. Distronic on with steering assist on, LKA off, auto lane change off and nothing behind me or to the right of me for 100 yards and it fought me on a lane change AFTER I turned on my turn signal.

I don’t think it’s the sensors because I’m not getting any proximity beeps like when you do when you turn on the blinkers when a car is there (and like I said, nothing was near me when it happened). I just think the car doesn’t realize the turn signal is on for whatever reason. Maybe sunspots fried its brain.

superswiss

Just suggesting again to turn the automatic lane change assist back on. I didn't quite understand the issue you were having with it. In the same situation with no cars around you, the car should automatically change the lane, so no fighting the lane change or pulling you back into your lane. If it still does it with the lane change assist turned on then there's definitely something wrong. Also suggest you use the 3-second blinker in this case. The lane change assist will keep the blinker on automatically for the entire duration of the lane change and turn it off once the lane change is completed. There's also a display that you can bring up which shows you what it sees and whether it accepts the lane change or not and give you warnings when it aborts the lane change etc. That might reveal some additional data. Otherwise I'm pretty sure the dealership will likely send you away saying everything works as designed and they couldn't reproduce your complaint. If it only happens intermittently then you pretty much need to start by recording it, so you can show the behavior to them. I know that's not easy while you are supposed to pay attention to the road, but you can mount a camera and record the entire time so hopefully it captures it when it happens.

Frenetic

I prefer to keep auto lane change off. It’s often times too slow, especially in heavy traffic.

However, how exactly is that affecting what I’m experiencing? The setting is off and should play no role in any lane change. And, as I’ve previously stated, most lane changes happen without incident.

Wolfman

I have cleaned up this thread so that other members may feel it's worth reading. Please stay on topic. Thanks

superswiss

It's affecting it insofar as that it will do the lane change instead of you having to coax it. I think you are misunderstanding something or not seeing the connection. You are using the active steering assist, so its objective is to steer the car within your lane. Even if you are indicating it doesn't stop steering the car in your lane, so that you don't suddenly swerve off. It does this especially if you are in a slight bend so that the car isn't suddenly going straight the moment you turn on the blinker. So you effectively are creating a conflict between the active steering assist steering the car in your lane, and you wanting to change the lane. One of you has to give in at the right moment. The steering assist has to recognize that you have a firm grip on the steering wheel and are now doing the lane change or you have to recognize that the steering assist is still doing its job and steering the car in your lane.

As for heavy traffic, the lane change assist turns off automatically for me in dense slower traffic. I have to make manual lane changes in those situations. Which is to my point above. It's just an assistance system.

Frenetic

But shouldn’t active steering assist turn off when you turn on the turn signal? Are you saying I can only change lanes while using active steering assist with auto lane change?

superswiss

No, it shouldn't. That's the part I've been trying to explain. Just think about it. Let's say you are driving along on the highway with steering assist active. There comes a bend, so the car steers into it. Then you accidently slip and turn on the blinker. If steering assist would turn off the moment you turn on the blinker the car would suddenly drive straight. Not good. Steering assist has to at least hold the current turn and maybe release once you are driving straight again to avoid the car careening out of the bend. Have you paid attention to whether the road is perfectively straight when the issue happens or if there's a bend?

No, I'm not saying you can only change lanes while using auto lane change, but what I'm saying is the above. The steering assist has to know when it's safe to stop auto steering and let you change lanes and not just let go of the steering the moment you turn on the blinker.

Frenetic

Well, that’s news to me if true. I was under the impression that active steering assist and LKA would turn off with the blinker on. It would be nice if the manual stated that, unless I missed that section.

However, the incident that happened today occurred during a flat and straight section of freeway with no cars in front or behind me.

I haven’t tried changing lanes without the blinker. I assume the blinker plays no role in steering assist at all then? I need to try that.

superswiss

No, this stuff is not really explained in the owner's manual. But it works the way I explained it. I'm a software developer and while I don't work in the automotive field I analyze these systems for my personal enjoyment. Here's something you can try to see what I'm saying in action. Turn off the steering assist in the middle of a bend. Notice how it remains active until you are mostly driving straight again. It takes a moment before it actually turns off if it is in the middle of steering the car, or even making a steering correction. It even happens if you are driving on a perfectly straight road, because there are constant steering corrections that happen. Suddenly letting go of the steering assist would be very dangerous, because the driver needs a moment to take full control of the steering. It has to be a more gradual transition. I usually cancel DISTRONIC before making a manual lane change to signal the system that I'm fully taking over. The half automated and half manual situation just doesn't work all that well. It's one too many cooks in the kitchen. Tesla perhaps has it right. The Tesla Autopilot immediately deactivates the moment the driver turns the steering wheel and then you have to reactivate it once you completed the lane change. It's accompanied by an annoying bing, too. Personally I rather do this myself by hitting cancel, then do the lane change and then resume, so I'm in full control of what I wanna do, or I let the automatic lane change assist change lanes for me. It's one or the other.

Frenetic

Well, why it sometimes happens and why it sometimes doesn’t—without any perceivable danger (especially today)—leaves a lot to be desired. I personally don’t like it. Every car I’ve had with active steering assist, auto braking, LKA etc, would deactivate the steering assist and LKA the second the blinker turned on. This car will sometimes fight me for no apparent reason.

Does the blinker turn off LKA with active steering off?
Has anyone confirmed successful lane changes with the no blinker and active steering assist on (and LKA off) to verify the car could care less about the blinker?

superswiss

Yes, the blinker turns off LKA, because LKA is purely a safety system, whereas active steering assist is an assistance system and actively steers the car. LKA only intervenes when you are about to drift out of your lane w/o signaling. Most other brands tend to combine LKA and their equivalent of steering assist. MB distinctly separates them. You can have one or the other, both or neither. I like it better than what others do, because I can still have active steering assist but turn off LKA so it doesn't mess with my steering when I'm fully in control. I've recently had an Audi A6 rental on vacation in Europe and there these systems are combined, so I constantly had to turn LKA/Steering assist on and off, because when I wasn't using ACC it frequently misread lane markers and jerked the steering. MBs system is much better. Because if I have LKA turned off then if I'm not using DISTRONIC nothing is ever interfering with my steering and when I activate DISTRONIC then I relinquish some of the control to the car, so there is a clear distinction and I'm aware of the transitions. Perhaps you are just not used to it yet.

Frenetic

I’m definitely not use to it and would much rather prefer the car realize that I’m purposely turning on the blinker for a reason, and adult enough to know a safe lane change versus the unpredictability of what MB does: sometimes yes sometimes no…

Anyways, thanks Superswiss for the explanation. I’m going to try changing lanes with and without the blinker with active steering. I just have to experience this myself.

zengshengliu

Keep in mind that with the Active Steering Assist on, the car has to maintain in the center of the lane. When you turn on the turn signal, the car doesn't know when you are going to switch lane (Active Lane Change Assist OFF), or it doesn't know when the lane is going to be free (Active Lane Change Assist ON), so it will still tries to maintain in the center of the lane until it detects the steering wheel input.
If the Active Steering Assist is actively steering (a slight turn, or even just a slight adjustment due to uneven road, or it detected the car is drifting to one side, or even on a straight road with crosswind, etc) when you try to switch lane, you might feel the initial resistance from the steering wheel, but the system should disengage itself quickly. This could explain why sometimes you feel the resistance, and sometime you don't. If the car is travelling perfectly in the center and no steering is needed at the time of lane switch, you wouldn't feel anything.

Frenetic

Yeah I didn’t understand the blinker didn’t disengage active steering assist. It just did not make sense to me that the car wouldn’t recognize I turned on the blinker for a reason, no different then if I turned the blinker on with active lane change assist except I intend to change the lane myself.

Have you tried just changing lanes without the blinker with active steering assist on and LKA off (on a straight stretch with no active inputs)?

zengshengliu

I did not.
I only tried switching lane with both Steering and Lane Switch Assist ON and I did encounter the the steering wheel resistance when turning once, but then again I usually just drive myself and not use Distronic much so I can't say how frequent/infrequent that happens.

superswiss

I just realized I didn't answer this part. I have not tried to change lanes in that situation, but with active steering assist on, any steering input is met with a certain amount of resistance, which is probably the part that's most awkward. Because one is supposed to keep their hands on the steering wheel, so it feels like two people steering the car. I therefore mostly drive handsfree actually as it allows that for up to 30 seconds and then just periodically touch it when it warns in the instrument cluster. On sharper bends, tough I have to steer along as steering assist by itself is not steering enough and that always feels like a bit of a battle. I tend to turn in sooner than the steering assist does, so it's kinda fighting me. On a section with lots of sharper bends, I end up just cancelling DISTRONIC and drive manually until the highway straightens out again. It does work best on mostly straight highways. That's also where the automatic lane change works quite well. It does change lanes quite well even in bends, though.

I've learned how the system reacts in different situations, though, so it does make long distance driving rather relaxing if used properly.

Frenetic

I need to try it. I just find it hard to believe the blinker plays no part with active steering assist sans active lane change assist.

If if forces the steering back every time then it does recognize the blinker. And if that is the case, then why the heck does it do it under ideal conditions with the blinker on?

TexAg91

I have all those features on my GLE, and it has never behaved as you describe. I’m guessing you have a calibration issue…I think you are right to take it in. Hopefully you can get the tech to ride with you and demo the condition that results in the unwanted correction.

There are some sections of road that often trigger the lane keeper differential braking, even though I’m not not close to the edge. It appears to be caused by a featured in the road, like a gouge mark or tar line. But that does NOT sound like what you are experiencing.

Frenetic

So I tested some more things today.

Just to recap, though, the starting conditions: LKA OFF, Auto Lane Change Assist OFF, Distronic ON, Active Steering ON.

1. The car will resist changing lanes without a blinker. It won’t try and jerk me back into my lane, but it also doesn’t want to change.
2. There is no resistance if I turn on the blinker before changing lanes.
3. I did get another strong jerk back while changing lanes with the blinker on again today. No cars near me.
4. I couldn’t get the car to jerk back into my lane without the blinker, although I only made a few lane changes in that condition.

So, the blinker does play a role in active steering; turn it on and there is no resistance to a lane change. Try and change lanes without the blinker and you’ll feel a steering resistance. However, I can’t tell if the blinker/active steering connection has anything to do with what I’m experiencing. What I’m going to do next is turn on LKA and repeat the experiment while continuing to test no blinker lane changes with active steering (and no LKA).