2021 GLE350 Cylinder Head Failure??!!?
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2021 Glb35 AMG (2013 GLK 350)
From A-35 new cylinder head post (https://www.aclassclub.co.uk/threads....19533/page-15), MB Technical Service Bulletin TSB LI01.30-P-072328 was published on 09/30/2021 for M260 or M264 engines:
https://www.tsbsearch.com/Mercedes-B...0-P-072328/118
https://www.tsbsearch.com/Mercedes-B...0-P-072328/118
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From: Colorado
'21 AMG53 wDPP & ARC, 19 GLC300 - Former-03 C240,2 ML BlueTecs,20 GLE450 E-ABC,15 Cayenne D,17 Macan
From A-35 new cylinder head post (https://www.aclassclub.co.uk/threads....19533/page-15), MB Technical Service Bulletin TSB LI01.30-P-072328 was published on 09/30/2021 for M260 or M264 engines:
https://www.tsbsearch.com/Mercedes-B...0-P-072328/118
https://www.tsbsearch.com/Mercedes-B...0-P-072328/118
Which then led to mixture issues, which were beyond the ability of the engine control systems to correct.
From the TSB, "Mixture formation (cylinder X) is irregular. The commanded position cannot be reached."
Which gets back to how precisely they manage the flame front, that I mentioned a post before.
It's more than just the toughness of the metal; now electronics play an equally important role.
I guess it's Mind over Matter anymore.
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From: unbegrenzt
2017 GLE350 4MATIC
Much of what you say is true, but much is based on carbureted engines without engineered flamefronts.
Which affects engine stressed immensely at these specific outputs.
Lots of advancements in managing stresses and cooling, especially with 48v systems.
The new AMG 2 liter puts out 476hp. There's a lot more going on than just cylinder spacing. I don't see any reason not to trust it.
Plus, there are very few shared components between the "related" engines you talk about. Specifically, crank, rods snd pistons are not shared, according to Daimler releases. The crank is now hollow, for instance.
Just about every manufacturer has had a huge numbers of engines recalled in the last couple of years. Except Mercedes and ???
Now they're talking about relaxing to Tier Seven emission standards. Maybe that will reduce stresses more than specific output.
Which affects engine stressed immensely at these specific outputs.
Lots of advancements in managing stresses and cooling, especially with 48v systems.
The new AMG 2 liter puts out 476hp. There's a lot more going on than just cylinder spacing. I don't see any reason not to trust it.
Plus, there are very few shared components between the "related" engines you talk about. Specifically, crank, rods snd pistons are not shared, according to Daimler releases. The crank is now hollow, for instance.
Just about every manufacturer has had a huge numbers of engines recalled in the last couple of years. Except Mercedes and ???
Now they're talking about relaxing to Tier Seven emission standards. Maybe that will reduce stresses more than specific output.
Last edited by chassis; Oct 25, 2022 at 07:40 AM.
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From: Costco
2023 S500
These engines are modular. I’m just wondering if the 4 cylinder is nothing “short” of a chopped straight six, at least structurally. I just saw an article that states the new E53 AMG sedan will dump the M256 and go to a detuned C-Class AMG63 setup. I’m wondering if that means the next GLE 450/53 will also have the same 4 cylinder setup in various stages of tune, assuming it stays Dino at all. I’ll post a separate thread that shows the article talking about that.
https://tuningpro.co/mercedes-m256-engine-guide/
http://australiancar.reviews/mercedesbenz_M260_M264.php
https://tuningpro.co/mercedes-m256-engine-guide/
http://australiancar.reviews/mercedesbenz_M260_M264.php
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From: unbegrenzt
2017 GLE350 4MATIC
These engines are modular. I’m just wondering if the 4 cylinder is nothing “short” of a chopped straight six, at least structurally. I just saw an article that states the new E53 AMG sedan will dump the M256 and go to a detuned C-Class AMG63 setup. I’m wondering if that means the next GLE 450/53 will also have the same 4 cylinder setup in various stages of tune, assuming it stays Dino at all. I’ll post a separate thread that shows the article talking about that.
https://tuningpro.co/mercedes-m256-engine-guide/
http://australiancar.reviews/mercedesbenz_M260_M264.php
https://tuningpro.co/mercedes-m256-engine-guide/
http://australiancar.reviews/mercedesbenz_M260_M264.php
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These engines are modular. I’m just wondering if the 4 cylinder is nothing “short” of a chopped straight six, at least structurally. I just saw an article that states the new E53 AMG sedan will dump the M256 and go to a detuned C-Class AMG63 setup. I’m wondering if that means the next GLE 450/53 will also have the same 4 cylinder setup in various stages of tune, assuming it stays Dino at all. I’ll post a separate thread that shows the article talking about that.
https://tuningpro.co/mercedes-m256-engine-guide/
http://australiancar.reviews/mercedesbenz_M260_M264.php
https://tuningpro.co/mercedes-m256-engine-guide/
http://australiancar.reviews/mercedesbenz_M260_M264.php
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All these engines will just but soulless, I can't believe I have to say a V6 animal Dyson sounds louder than these engines nowadays : (
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'21 AMG53 wDPP & ARC, 19 GLC300 - Former-03 C240,2 ML BlueTecs,20 GLE450 E-ABC,15 Cayenne D,17 Macan
If the Dyson were to be operated on public roads, the Euro authorities would limit the sound it makes, too!🙁
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MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,987
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From: Colorado
'21 AMG53 wDPP & ARC, 19 GLC300 - Former-03 C240,2 ML BlueTecs,20 GLE450 E-ABC,15 Cayenne D,17 Macan
"Modular" in this case only refers to cylinder size and spacing.
It doesn't mean shared components.
Mercedes has decided that 500cc per cylinder gives the best cooling and specific output.
The rest depends on the application.
It doesn't mean shared components.
Mercedes has decided that 500cc per cylinder gives the best cooling and specific output.
The rest depends on the application.
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2021 Glb35 AMG (2013 GLK 350)
Yes, M254 is on new C/GLC Non AMG models. C43 & C63 models has the hand build 4 cylinder AMG M139 engine, which is the same one found on the 2022 A45/GLA45 AMG.
First Look at W206 C43: https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...-w206-c43.html
Even Yahoo article puts it, That's all folks! 2024 Mercedes-AMG C63 - 2.0-liter turbocharged internal-combustion four-cylinder makes 469 hp before any hybrid assistance.
"this M139L engine is similar to other Mercedes four-pots but with a “significantly larger” turbocharger."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_M139_engine
M139 is the successor of the M133 engine and is equipped with combined port and direct fuel injection system. The M139 engine is based on the current Mercedes-Benz M260 engine, which is an upgraded version of the outgoing M270, sharing the same bore and stroke dimension as well as the block. Unlike the normal M260, the AMG engineers rotated the engine block 180 degrees so that the intake system is in the front of the engine while the turbochargers and exhaust headers are situated between the engine and firewall.[3]The rotation optimizes the air flow for higher performance and with shorter distance and fewer diversions. This also leads to the "allows the flattest possible and aerodynamically advantageous front section design."[4] The exhaust valves in M139 engine are bigger than ones in M133 engines for higher flow. The compression ratio is raised to 9.0:1 for M139 from 8.6:1 for M133. The two-stage fuel injection system, a first in AMG four-cylinder engine, has the piezo injectors delivering the fuel directly into the combustion chambers as first stage and solenoid valves in the manifolds as second stage for increased specific output."
https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...cylinder-m139/
https://media.mbusa.com/releases/rel...n-affalterbach
First Look at W206 C43: https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...-w206-c43.html
Even Yahoo article puts it, That's all folks! 2024 Mercedes-AMG C63 - 2.0-liter turbocharged internal-combustion four-cylinder makes 469 hp before any hybrid assistance.
"this M139L engine is similar to other Mercedes four-pots but with a “significantly larger” turbocharger."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_M139_engine
M139 is the successor of the M133 engine and is equipped with combined port and direct fuel injection system. The M139 engine is based on the current Mercedes-Benz M260 engine, which is an upgraded version of the outgoing M270, sharing the same bore and stroke dimension as well as the block. Unlike the normal M260, the AMG engineers rotated the engine block 180 degrees so that the intake system is in the front of the engine while the turbochargers and exhaust headers are situated between the engine and firewall.[3]The rotation optimizes the air flow for higher performance and with shorter distance and fewer diversions. This also leads to the "allows the flattest possible and aerodynamically advantageous front section design."[4] The exhaust valves in M139 engine are bigger than ones in M133 engines for higher flow. The compression ratio is raised to 9.0:1 for M139 from 8.6:1 for M133. The two-stage fuel injection system, a first in AMG four-cylinder engine, has the piezo injectors delivering the fuel directly into the combustion chambers as first stage and solenoid valves in the manifolds as second stage for increased specific output."
https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...cylinder-m139/
https://media.mbusa.com/releases/rel...n-affalterbach
Last edited by Serhan; Oct 25, 2022 at 12:06 PM.
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Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 32,224
Likes: 6,283
Yes, M254 is on new C/GLC Non AMG models. C43 & C63 models has the hand build 4 cylinder AMG M139 engine, which is the same one found on the 2022 A45/GLA45 AMG.
First Look at W206 C43: https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...-w206-c43.html
Even Yahoo article puts it, That's all folks! 2024 Mercedes-AMG C63 - 2.0-liter turbocharged internal-combustion four-cylinder makes 469 hp before any hybrid assistance.
"this M139L engine is similar to other Mercedes four-pots but with a “significantly larger” turbocharger."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_M139_engine
M139 is the successor of the M133 engine and is equipped with combined port and direct fuel injection system. The M139 engine is based on the current Mercedes-Benz M260 engine, which is an upgraded version of the outgoing M270, sharing the same bore and stroke dimension as well as the block. Unlike the normal M260, the AMG engineers rotated the engine block 180 degrees so that the intake system is in the front of the engine while the turbochargers and exhaust headers are situated between the engine and firewall.[3]The rotation optimizes the air flow for higher performance and with shorter distance and fewer diversions. This also leads to the "allows the flattest possible and aerodynamically advantageous front section design."[4] The exhaust valves in M139 engine are bigger than ones in M133 engines for higher flow. The compression ratio is raised to 9.0:1 for M139 from 8.6:1 for M133. The two-stage fuel injection system, a first in AMG four-cylinder engine, has the piezo injectors delivering the fuel directly into the combustion chambers as first stage and solenoid valves in the manifolds as second stage for increased specific output."
https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...cylinder-m139/
https://media.mbusa.com/releases/rel...n-affalterbach
First Look at W206 C43: https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...-w206-c43.html
Even Yahoo article puts it, That's all folks! 2024 Mercedes-AMG C63 - 2.0-liter turbocharged internal-combustion four-cylinder makes 469 hp before any hybrid assistance.
"this M139L engine is similar to other Mercedes four-pots but with a “significantly larger” turbocharger."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_M139_engine
M139 is the successor of the M133 engine and is equipped with combined port and direct fuel injection system. The M139 engine is based on the current Mercedes-Benz M260 engine, which is an upgraded version of the outgoing M270, sharing the same bore and stroke dimension as well as the block. Unlike the normal M260, the AMG engineers rotated the engine block 180 degrees so that the intake system is in the front of the engine while the turbochargers and exhaust headers are situated between the engine and firewall.[3]The rotation optimizes the air flow for higher performance and with shorter distance and fewer diversions. This also leads to the "allows the flattest possible and aerodynamically advantageous front section design."[4] The exhaust valves in M139 engine are bigger than ones in M133 engines for higher flow. The compression ratio is raised to 9.0:1 for M139 from 8.6:1 for M133. The two-stage fuel injection system, a first in AMG four-cylinder engine, has the piezo injectors delivering the fuel directly into the combustion chambers as first stage and solenoid valves in the manifolds as second stage for increased specific output."
https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...cylinder-m139/
https://media.mbusa.com/releases/rel...n-affalterbach
Member
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 144
Likes: 72
From: Calverton MD 20705
2013 W212 E350 RWD
Anything is possible. Cylinder spacing between M260/M264/M274/M256 is the same at 90mm. Bore for 2.0L four bangers and 3.0L six cylinder is the same at 83mm. Stroke is almost the same at 92 or 92.4mm. Geometric compression ratio is the same at 10.5. The four banger max torque is 400Nm while the six cylinder produces less than 600Nm, so the assumption is the four bangers are running higher bmep which suggests higher boost level. aka "hotter tune". AMG tooted their horn when they achieved 400hp in a 2.0L four banger so MB seems proud of themselves to run high specific torque and power.
Higher bmep is an indication of higher overall operating stress. Higher operating stress + cost reduction pressure = potential for failures. High specific output is the goal for racing engines. In consumer appliances such as MB vehicles, when cost cutting enters the picture, as it always does, caveat emptor.
It is safe to assume parts bin components are shared across as many engines as possible: belt idlers and tensioners, sensors of all types: cam position, cam magnets, crank position, temperature and others. Injectors have been shared across engines, I don't know if that is the case with these engines.
MB's engine failures seem to be all over the map: cylinder scoring and other problems on M278/M157, rear main oil seal on M177, cylinder head failure on M264 and piston cracking on M274. This to me says they are pushing technology levels while not allowing the needed product cost (material quantity and quality) and not spending sufficient prototype development time and money to address problems. In the end they are skimping on time and money and the consumer is the one who pays. The MB star is further tarnished, if that were possible.
None of these engines inspire confidence in me, and we haven't started talking about the flopped EQ-boost system which still isn't sorted out almost 4 years since introduction.
Higher bmep is an indication of higher overall operating stress. Higher operating stress + cost reduction pressure = potential for failures. High specific output is the goal for racing engines. In consumer appliances such as MB vehicles, when cost cutting enters the picture, as it always does, caveat emptor.
It is safe to assume parts bin components are shared across as many engines as possible: belt idlers and tensioners, sensors of all types: cam position, cam magnets, crank position, temperature and others. Injectors have been shared across engines, I don't know if that is the case with these engines.
MB's engine failures seem to be all over the map: cylinder scoring and other problems on M278/M157, rear main oil seal on M177, cylinder head failure on M264 and piston cracking on M274. This to me says they are pushing technology levels while not allowing the needed product cost (material quantity and quality) and not spending sufficient prototype development time and money to address problems. In the end they are skimping on time and money and the consumer is the one who pays. The MB star is further tarnished, if that were possible.
None of these engines inspire confidence in me, and we haven't started talking about the flopped EQ-boost system which still isn't sorted out almost 4 years since introduction.
ABS? Nope, made sure to do something funky and pulse the brakes to make me fishtail too!
Powersteering? Nope
Blind spot detection? Of course not. Everything turned off and the car went into neutral, luckily there was no one around.
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Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 1,513
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From: Westchester, NY
2014 Mercedes E350 4matic Wagon, 2018 Fiat 124 Spyder Lusso manual, 2005 Acura TSX manual
I had a GLC300 with a 48V system try to kill me! I was driving down the road then all the electronics and safety systems turned off! All of them!
ABS? Nope, made sure to do something funky and pulse the brakes to make me fishtail too!
Powersteering? Nope
Blind spot detection? Of course not. Everything turned off and the car went into neutral, luckily there was no one around.
ABS? Nope, made sure to do something funky and pulse the brakes to make me fishtail too!
Powersteering? Nope
Blind spot detection? Of course not. Everything turned off and the car went into neutral, luckily there was no one around.
Newbie
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 2
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gmc acadia
Our 2020 is having a cylinder head issue. $24K
2021 GLE350 4matic suddenly starts shaking at idle, loss of power and shaking while driving. Sometimes drives normally, but check engine light on permanently. Take to dealer and told cylinder head needs to be replaced. The car has about 14k miles. Anyone else experience this? How concerning is this that it's happen so soon, or at all? I mean I would not expect this kind of issue. Is this car going to have serious problems going forward? Pretty disappointing actually. Wondering everyone's thoughts on this. Should've bought a BMW
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Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 14,666
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From: unbegrenzt
2017 GLE350 4MATIC
Our 2020 is 1 month out of warranty and MBUSA thus far is suggesting we buy a new MB. They have been EXTREMELY unresponsive. It was supposedly being escalated and the person to whom it was given will not call us back. This might be related to the exhaust valve extended warranty issued on some of the other class of vehicles.
Newbie
Joined: Nov 2023
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
GLE 350
2021 GLE350 4matic suddenly starts shaking at idle, loss of power and shaking while driving. Sometimes drives normally, but check engine light on permanently. Take to dealer and told cylinder head needs to be replaced. The car has about 14k miles. Anyone else experience this? How concerning is this that it's happen so soon, or at all? I mean I would not expect this kind of issue. Is this car going to have serious problems going forward? Pretty disappointing actually. Wondering everyone's thoughts on this. Should've bought a BMW
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 505
Likes: 201
From: Palm Beach Gardens, Florida
2021 AMG GLE53 | 2013 SLK350 Sport
I bought a 2021 GLE 350 a week and a half ago. 24 hours after I bought it the engine light came one while I was at a light and the car started rocking back and forth. 24 hours! What's going to happen after 24 days or 24 months? I took it to the Mercedes dealer and 24 hours after they returned it to me, saying the problem was fixed, it happened again. I took it to another Mercedes dealer and was told that the cylinder head needed to be replaced. The car has 17,900 miles. This is my first Mercedes and not a good way to start out. I'm beyond frustrated and extremely disappointed. Since I'm basically screwed, I plan to keep it until the warranty expires and then trade it. I am glad that it's not just me and I'm praying that Mercedes will at least fix this so that I can feel safe in this car.
Sounds like a big inconvenience. Don't make it a monster. Have the dealership where you bought it replace the cylinder head and be done with it. You will be given a loaner in the meantime. The CPO programs also gives you 1 additional year of warranty coverage. If this doesn't appeal to you, have the dealership give you another car or your money back.
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2021
Posts: 490
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2021 Glb35 AMG (2013 GLK 350)
GLA/GLB got 15 years warranty extension on the cylinder head/exhaust valve system in US and Canada. GLC/GLE models should be same. At least the owners can contact MB to see if they will extended warranty.
https://mbworld.org/forums/glb-class...nder-head.html
https://mbworld.org/forums/glb-class...nder-head.html
I bought a 2021 GLE 350 a week and a half ago. 24 hours after I bought it the engine light came one while I was at a light and the car started rocking back and forth. 24 hours! What's going to happen after 24 days or 24 months? I took it to the Mercedes dealer and 24 hours after they returned it to me, saying the problem was fixed, it happened again. I took it to another Mercedes dealer and was told that the cylinder head needed to be replaced. The car has 17,900 miles. This is my first Mercedes and not a good way to start out. I'm beyond frustrated and extremely disappointed. Since I'm basically screwed, I plan to keep it until the warranty expires and then trade it. I am glad that it's not just me and I'm praying that Mercedes will at least fix this so that I can feel safe in this car.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 14,666
Likes: 4,569
From: unbegrenzt
2017 GLE350 4MATIC
I bought a 2021 GLE 350 a week and a half ago. 24 hours after I bought it the engine light came one while I was at a light and the car started rocking back and forth. 24 hours! What's going to happen after 24 days or 24 months? I took it to the Mercedes dealer and 24 hours after they returned it to me, saying the problem was fixed, it happened again. I took it to another Mercedes dealer and was told that the cylinder head needed to be replaced. The car has 17,900 miles. This is my first Mercedes and not a good way to start out. I'm beyond frustrated and extremely disappointed. Since I'm basically screwed, I plan to keep it until the warranty expires and then trade it. I am glad that it's not just me and I'm praying that Mercedes will at least fix this so that I can feel safe in this car.
MB's reputation as a manufacturer of junk is confirmed. Again.
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,987
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From: Colorado
'21 AMG53 wDPP & ARC, 19 GLC300 - Former-03 C240,2 ML BlueTecs,20 GLE450 E-ABC,15 Cayenne D,17 Macan
@chassis you need to get much larger SUV, to store all this baggage you're carrying.
Newbie
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From: Chester, va
2015 c300 4matic
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mercedes ml
Yes I’m in the same DAMN boat. 2020 GLE 350 50,100 miles. Contacted MBUSA for help. Warranty over 3 weeks and the damages as followed:
$ 5,325 parts (Head and parts)
$ 4000 Labor
Total **** Job on a car that has been serviced on schedule for every thing at dealership since day 1.
Family and myself longtime Mercedes Supporters. Still also have a ML350 with 151k miles that runs like the day I bought it back in 2008. This W167 GLE barely lasted 50k miles before Leaking Valve.
Last edited by millyellz; Dec 13, 2023 at 10:05 AM.
