PJSD

2021 GLE350 4matic suddenly starts shaking at idle, loss of power and shaking while driving. Sometimes drives normally, but check engine light on permanently. Take to dealer and told cylinder head needs to be replaced. The car has about 14k miles. Anyone else experience this? How concerning is this that it's happen so soon, or at all? I mean I would not expect this kind of issue. Is this car going to have serious problems going forward? Pretty disappointing actually. Wondering everyone's thoughts on this. Should've bought a BMW

Serhan

It looks like it is common on 4 cylinder M260/M264 engines (see on GLB forum: https://mbworld.org/forums/glb-class...ght-p219c.html )

Replacing the cylinder head on M264 (M260 refers to the transverse configuration (for front-wheel drive models) while the M264 refers to the longitudinally mounted engine (for rear-wheel drive models)):


and on 2022 GLA-M260 engine. Diagnose and Repair the Check Engine Light - P219C77 on 2022 Mercedes Benz GLA M260 (March temp plate showing Fremont, California):

MBguy013

The good thing is that you are still under warranty. Things happen and that is why there is a warranty. Why do you feel you should have bought bought a BMW? Nearly all vehicle brands and types have issues but I'd say the general masses don't.

chassis

Sorry to hear this. Hopefully MB makes it right for you.

MB has had a string of bad four bangers. Something to avoid from this manufacturer.

Please keep us updated.

PJSD

I'll keep you folks updated. Yes, it is under warranty thankfully and the dealer is addressing it.

However, I'll tell you why I'm disappointed. Like many of you, I've owned many, many cars of different makes. Currently, I have a 2020 GLS450 and the '21 GLE. The GLS with 17k miles has a few different quality issues, for example separating seats, which the GLE also has, a broken center console door, and some computer/software glitches that are intermittent. Engine seems fine. The GLE has 14k miles the separating MBTEX seats, and the cylinder head failure. I would expect more from a Mercedes, I would not expect more from a KIA or Hyundai, not to bash those makes. My last 12 vehicles were BMWs, with no problems. I have a 2020 Porsche 911 with 19k miles. No problems. I have a 2016 Toyota Tundra with 40k miles, no problems. I have a 2015 Lexus RX350 with 80k miles, not a single issue. In that context, I'm disappointed with my $85,000 GLS and $70k GLE. A cylinder head failure is not a minor thing from what I can tell. It's been in the shop a week so far. I hope this is the end of the issues, and the motor doesn't crap out the week after the warranty expires.

E55Greasemonkey

Yes, the exhaust valves are burning, and this problem extends to the 2022 models as well. Also, the A/C evaporators are starting to leak freon which requires removal of the dashboard. The straight 6 engines are experiencing cracked wiring harnesses for the ignition coils which can cause the engine ECU to short circuit and fail. These are the latest "new" problems with this model. We'll see what the future holds as more miles are accumulated on them.

Frenetic

Yeah I saw a post elsewhere that shows the dash removed because he’s replacing the evaporator. It may have been on YouTube or Reddit, I forget, but it was from a dealership and one of the questions asked was how common and he said it’s very common and a material defect.

However, I haven’t seen too many posts about it here about AC failures.

More and more I get the sense that there’s very little interaction with this forum. I don’t get it. Not sure if it’s the type of buyer or toxic people, but it’s crickets here versus the other German enthusiast forums.

chassis

That leaves no engine in the 167 lineup without potential major issues.

four banger = bad cylinder head
inline 6 = cracked wiring
V8 = rear main seal leak (read W213 section)

I6 and V8 are additionally subject to 48V difficulties.

jaxslk

Links to the I6 cracked wiring details?

E55Greasemonkey

​​​​​ Don't have any links, only experience. There are some private forums on Facebook discussing this as well. Seems to be affecting cars with over 30k miles. Failure occurs when the wires are manipulated, for example when removing a coil to replace a spark plug. New problem, unknown how widespread it is or if it affects entire engine harness or just certain areas of the harness.

jaxslk

TY. Good info to know.
I'm a ways off from needing plugs, but will keep this in mind to tell the dealer when that comes up in a couple years. Just crossed 10k now.

mikapen

Anecdotal so far. Could be damaged by an independent job - who knows? For that matter, who knows if any of this is true?

Do you have personal experience? Was there a service history?

E55Greasemonkey

It's because of trolls like this who constantly attack and belittle those who have differing experiences and opinions than their own. Next step, they will report the posts to the moderators. Pretty sad really.

E55Greasemonkey

You're welcome. There's a good chance the dealer will know by then. I wouldn't be surprised if MB issues a technical bulletin or service campaign for this in the near future.

mikapen

When I ask for your sources, it's not because I'm challenging you.
It's because I do a lot of research, I have good sources, and I want to investigate.

I don't need a link, just a source or direction. Thanks in advance.

Glyn M Ruck

Guys ~ clean up this sandpit or we will clean it up for you. Ignorant Trolls will not be tolerated

jaxslk

Yes, I watch the startekinfo.com page weekly. I'll post up if I see anything for the m256. 👍

Ron.s

Isolated engine issues have been the norm over the years and isn’t a Mercedes exclusive as a few members would like for you to believe. In many cases it relates to quality control slipping for a component that they outsourced and maybe more prevalent after COVID. Porsche engines with excessive oil consumption. BMW, GM ,Ford, etc.
Here’s a more serious (recent issue) at VAG with a potential recall of 74k vehicles pending.
https://www.autoevolution.com/news/v...es-201687.html

PJSD

I don't know, I hope this is just an isolated thing that gets fixed and no more issues, really I want this to be a good car. Car is still at dealership since 10/10/22... that's 2 weeks now. I haven't even received an update from them.

chassis

Re: isolated question, need to see what GLB owners are experiencing with head failures on the same M260/M264 engine as the 167. There are some GLB failures. Also a report of a thrown rod (through the engine block) on an M260.

Maybe MB solved the piston cracking from the M274 and the bubble on the wallpaper is now the cylinder head and rods (coming out the side).

Serhan

I am guessing rod failure might be related to the installation after the cylinder head change in one case (unless MB is using the same VW/Audi supplier, but even that happens in first 1000 miles). I have not seen any other ones.. The cylinder head failure is more common depending on the forums, eg for GLA:
https://www.glaowners.com/threads/cy...0-miles.28704/

Frenetic

Isn’t the 4 cylinder M264 modular with the straight 6 M256? It makes me wonder if these cylinder head issues are systemic and a design flaw versus bad workmanship. If that is the case, there’s a chance this flaw is present in the M256.

chassis

Anything is possible. Cylinder spacing between M260/M264/M274/M256 is the same at 90mm. Bore for 2.0L four bangers and 3.0L six cylinder is the same at 83mm. Stroke is almost the same at 92 or 92.4mm. Geometric compression ratio is the same at 10.5. The four banger max torque is 400Nm while the six cylinder produces less than 600Nm, so the assumption is the four bangers are running higher bmep which suggests higher boost level. aka "hotter tune". AMG tooted their horn when they achieved 400hp in a 2.0L four banger so MB seems proud of themselves to run high specific torque and power.

Higher bmep is an indication of higher overall operating stress. Higher operating stress + cost reduction pressure = potential for failures. High specific output is the goal for racing engines. In consumer appliances such as MB vehicles, when cost cutting enters the picture, as it always does, caveat emptor.

It is safe to assume parts bin components are shared across as many engines as possible: belt idlers and tensioners, sensors of all types: cam position, cam magnets, crank position, temperature and others. Injectors have been shared across engines, I don't know if that is the case with these engines.

MB's engine failures seem to be all over the map: cylinder scoring and other problems on M278/M157, rear main oil seal on M177, cylinder head failure on M264 and piston cracking on M274. This to me says they are pushing technology levels while not allowing the needed product cost (material quantity and quality) and not spending sufficient prototype development time and money to address problems. In the end they are skimping on time and money and the consumer is the one who pays. The MB star is further tarnished, if that were possible.

None of these engines inspire confidence in me, and we haven't started talking about the flopped EQ-boost system which still isn't sorted out almost 4 years since introduction.

Ron.s

Here we go again…. One GLE 4 cylinder head failure reported and it’s either a design failure, maybe substandard parts from cost cutting, shared cheap parts or maybe a laser bolt from an Alien Spacecraft! These comments are not backed up with any facts.

The V167 GLE 350 is well over 50% of GLE sales and over 3.5 years and more than 100,000 sold in the US alone. This is really a serious situation with .00001 cylinder head failures reported. If only 10% are reported then that means that’s a whopping .0001 failure rate. I’m not going to do the research on the other models but you get the point. No car Co. is going to cheap out on engine parts hoping to save money…the warranty cost would bury them.
I hope someday One of our members gets over his hatred for the product, poor Dealer Service or whatever fora car that he doesn’t even own. I don’t know about anyone else but I’m disappointed that adults continue to jump on any perceived issue without facts.

mikapen

Much of what you say is true, but much is based on carbureted engines without engineered flamefronts.
Which affects engine stressed immensely at these specific outputs.
Lots of advancements in managing stresses and cooling, especially with 48v systems.

The new AMG 2 liter puts out 476hp. There's a lot more going on than just cylinder spacing. I don't see any reason not to trust it.

Plus, there are very few shared components between the "related" engines you talk about. Specifically, crank, rods snd pistons are not shared, according to Daimler releases. The crank is now hollow, for instance.

Just about every manufacturer has had a huge numbers of engines recalled in the last couple of years. Except Mercedes and ???

Now they're talking about relaxing to Tier Seven emission standards. Maybe that will reduce stresses more than specific output.