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4-cyl X5 models, both petrol and diesel, are offered only in China and some other Asian markets. 4-cyl petrol is offered only as a long-wheelbase model. Essentially these are meant to be the chauffeur version of these cars. Similarly, there is a small-engine 2.5L 6-cyl S-class offered exclusively for the Chinese market for people to be chauffered around in.
4-cyl X5 models, both petrol and diesel, are offered only in China and some other Asian markets. 4-cyl petrol is offered only as a long-wheelbase model. Essentially these are meant to be the chauffeur version of these cars. Similarly, there is a small-engine 2.5L 6-cyl S-class offered exclusively for the Chinese market for people to be chauffered around in.
Exactly what I thought. In a nutshell, BMW does not put a 4-cyl engine into their X5, in the US market.
Don’t know where the guy who popped up with the mis-information that the X5 can be optioned with a 4-cylinder, disappeared, with no follow-up from his end.
Bottomline, IMO, MB should not equip the GLE with their 4-cylinder engine. It is an inappropriate pairing. Another inappropriate pairing is MB equipping the 4-cylinder GLEs with their 315/325mm wide tires on 21/22 rims, which is akin to a normal portly guy walking around with a jacket saying he’s Mr.Olympia. Humor inducing, at best.
For the GLE, the 6-cylinder with mild-hybrid, should be the base engine. The 4-cylinder is however a great pairing for the smaller/lighter MB SUVs like the GLA/GLC/GLB etc. Hope MB does the right thing.
Exactly what I thought. In a nutshell, BMW does not put a 4-cyl engine into their X5, in the US market.
Don’t know where the guy who popped up with the mis-information that the X5 can be optioned with a 4-cylinder, disappeared, with no follow-up from his end.
Bottomline, IMO, MB should not equip the GLE with their 4-cylinder engine. It is an inappropriate pairing. Another inappropriate pairing is MB equipping the 4-cylinder GLEs with their 315/325mm wide tires on 21/22 rims, which is akin to a normal portly guy walking around with a jacket saying he’s Mr.Olympia. Humor inducing, at best.
For the GLE, the 6-cylinder with mild-hybrid, should be the base engine. The 4-cylinder is however a great pairing for the smaller/lighter MB SUVs like the GLA/GLC/GLB etc. Hope MB does the right thing.
In recent years MB has gone the route of cost-efficiency and optimization everywhere. I agree that for a car at this price level, GLE base should be straight-6, also the PHEV should be paired with a straight-6.
In my view, having owned multiple loaded spec BMW-s and now having received my first MB, a fully loaded GLE 450 petrol, the interior quality is a disappointment and shows the manufacturer clearly cutting corners. The car excels in ride quality, sound dampening, size/practicality, stereo but lacks heavily in leather/seat quality and dashboard materials (cheap scratchy plastic found in many places. When fully loaded, the X5 interior is just a very nice place to be in and the diamond-stiched comfort nappa leather seats that BMW has is a level above MB even when considering the AMG GLE models.
IMHO the only MB models keeping up with their quality standards are currently S class and G-wagon
P.S. Dont get me wrong, the current GLE is a great car and a successful model, at the same time at this price point I would not expect to find any costcutting or compromises made.
Last edited by alex_forrest; Dec 7, 2024 at 07:08 AM.
In recent years MB has gone the route of cost-efficiency and optimization everywhere. I agree that for a car at this price level, GLE base should be straight-6, also the PHEV should be paired with a straight-6.
In my view, having owned multiple loaded spec BMW-s and now having received my first MB, a fully loaded GLE 450 petrol, the interior quality is a disappointment and shows the manufacturer clearly cutting corners. The car excels in ride quality, sound dampening, size/practicality, stereo but lacks heavily in leather/seat quality and dashboard materials (cheap scratchy plastic found in many places. When fully loaded, the X5 interior is just a very nice place to be in and the diamond-stiched comfort nappa leather seats that BMW has is a level above MB even when considering the AMG GLE models.
IMHO the only MB models keeping up with their quality standards are currently S class and G-wagon
P.S. Dont get me wrong, the current GLE is a great car and a successful model, at the same time at this price point I would not expect to find any costcutting or compromises made.
Well, if you read some threads in the W223 sub-forum, there is also a lot of cost cutting even on the S-Class. The cheaper hinge means the door cannot be opened at any angle anymore as well as the no more double hinge centre armrest just to name two.
In recent years MB has gone the route of cost-efficiency and optimization everywhere. I agree that for a car at this price level, GLE base should be straight-6, also the PHEV should be paired with a straight-6.
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I agree. Just like BMW pairs their Straight-6 with their PHEV. And BMW happens to be MB’s main competitor.
When I was purchasing my GLE450, I saw the GLE450e, which intrigued me, since that in my mind, was the best of both worlds. All of the good aspects of the Inline-6, with electrification added in. I then dug in deeper, and realized that the “450e” was really a “350e” (a 350 4-cyl engine with the plug-in stuff added in). I dropped that plan right away.
Exactly what I thought. In a nutshell, BMW does not put a 4-cyl engine into their X5, in the US market.
Don’t know where the guy who popped up with the mis-information that the X5 can be optioned with a 4-cylinder, disappeared, with no follow-up from his end.
Bottomline, IMO, MB should not equip the GLE with their 4-cylinder engine. It is an inappropriate pairing. Another inappropriate pairing is MB equipping the 4-cylinder GLEs with their 315/325mm wide tires on 21/22 rims, which is akin to a normal portly guy walking around with a jacket saying he’s Mr.Olympia. Humor inducing, at best.
For the GLE, the 6-cylinder with mild-hybrid, should be the base engine. The 4-cylinder is however a great pairing for the smaller/lighter MB SUVs like the GLA/GLC/GLB etc. Hope MB does the right thing.
Followup:
I'm right here. I "liked" your clarifying response because I learned something from your post.
Thanks for the clarification. Yes, 4 cyl. No, not in this market. And it's only @$4k more than the 350.
The 2 liter GLE 350 is plenty of engine for many, and it fits a niche in the MB lineup.
With all the regulations, owners don't have many ways to customize their cars, so staggered tires is one way. Wraps are another.
You don't have to be fat to drive a four cylinder.
I prefer the 450 for the reasons I posted earlier. I drive a 53, after owning a 450. I lost 8-10mpg, BTW.
They've had some great sixes. BMW leather smells funny to me, and their handling is just lazy.
I keep wanting to like them, having sold them in the 80's and being friends with the Dealer, but I just don't.
I agree. Just like BMW pairs their Straight-6 with their PHEV. And BMW happens to be MB’s main competitor.
When I was purchasing my GLE450, I saw the GLE450e, which intrigued me, since that in my mind, was the best of both worlds. All of the good aspects of the Inline-6, with electrification added in. I then dug in deeper, and realized that the “450e” was really a “350e” (a 350 4-cyl engine with the plug-in stuff added in). I dropped that plan right away.
When we shopped our 450e, we also tried to look at the X5 PHEV. Unfortunately, we couldn’t find one to drive. The salesman kept telling us that it drives like the ICE version. Didn’t believe it. Also, as crazy as it sounds at that price point, we wanted better fuel economy in hybrid mode. The 4 cyl with electric push in hybrid mode works fine. Driving to Florida with the battery used up, go to pass and there is enough passing power for me. Marketing indicates an $80k or more car has to be a 450.
cost cutting is another thing. I was shocked to find out that the rear seats are not heated. That the rear climate package doesn’t include heated rear seats. Also, side rear window shades, not there. My MDX and Audi Q5 both had them. They were manual, (what a hardship) but they were there. I couldn’t believe that one. Cost cutting has been around for years. I had a 2004 Saab. Then a 2007 Saab. Stuff that was standard on the 04 were no longer available on the 07. I don’t like the cost cutting but, it’s not going away.
When we shopped our 450e, we also tried to look at the X5 PHEV. Unfortunately, we couldn’t find one to drive. The salesman kept telling us that it drives like the ICE version. Didn’t believe it. Also, as crazy as it sounds at that price point, we wanted better fuel economy in hybrid mode. The 4 cyl with electric push in hybrid mode works fine. Driving to Florida with the battery used up, go to pass and there is enough passing power for me. Marketing indicates an $80k or more car has to be a 450.
cost cutting is another thing. I was shocked to find out that the rear seats are not heated. That the rear climate package doesn’t include heated rear seats. Also, side rear window shades, not there. My MDX and Audi Q5 both had them. They were manual, (what a hardship) but they were there. I couldn’t believe that one. Cost cutting has been around for years. I had a 2004 Saab. Then a 2007 Saab. Stuff that was standard on the 04 were no longer available on the 07. I don’t like the cost cutting but, it’s not going away.
Marketing for sure, the W213 that had the M274 (in the form of E 300) replaced by the M264 changed to the E 350 while the same exact engine M264 in the facelift W205 C 300, they called it C 300 not C 350. E-Class has to have a higher number, so the GLE 450e is called GLE 450e and not GLE 350e as a result since the GLC 350e also have a four cylinder (although the X254 GLC 350e will get the M254 while the V167 GLE 450e still has the M264).
Let's be honest, none of these numbers represent the engine displacement anymore, it is all marketing.
Let's not forget the C 63 S E Performance the fact they used the C 63 S name was also because of marketing.
I agree wholeheartedly with this. In the past, when we say it is an ML320, we know it is a 3.2L V6 engine. or an E430 is a 4.3L V8 etc.
Currently, the GLE350 has a 2.0L 4-cylinder turbo engine, which means the "350" is a meaningless, pretend number that tries to project something it is not. Same with the GLE450, where the "450" is intended to be a 4.5L V8, while in reality, it is a 3.0L I-6 Turbo.
Some say that since it is a turbo engine, the performance is "similar" to that of a 3.5L V6, and that's why it is called a "350" etc., but I don't buy that kind of trickery. Just say it is a 4-cyl and be done with it, as far as I am concerned.
With all the regulations, owners don't have many ways to customize their cars, so staggered tires is one way. Wraps are another.
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You put a wide tire on a car, for reasons of traction. The last thing an underpowered 4-cylinder, trying to drag along a 5000+ lbs car needs, is MORE traction with a 315mm wide rear tire. You want to make things easy for that tiny engine, and not try to stress it more by adding even more wide tires. As stated, a wide 315mm tire indicates a high-powered car, while hiding under the hood is a weak-*** 4-cylinder. Pretension that's beyond pathetic !
I agree wholeheartedly with this. In the past, when we say it is an ML320, we know it is a 3.2L V6 engine. or an E430 is a 4.3L V8 etc.
Currently, the GLE350 has a 2.0L 4-cylinder turbo engine, which means the "350" is a meaningless, pretend number that tries to project something it is not. Same with the GLE450, where the "450" is intended to be a 4.5L V8, while in reality, it is a 3.0L I-6 Turbo.
Some say that since it is a turbo engine, the performance is "similar" to that of a 3.5L V6, and that's why it is called a "350" etc., but I don't buy that kind of trickery. Just say it is a 4-cyl and be done with it, as far as I am concerned.
Ya, that is why they stayed with such nomenclature.
You put a wide tire on a car, for reasons of traction. The last thing an underpowered 4-cylinder, trying to drag along a 5000+ lbs car needs, is MORE traction with a 315mm wide rear tire. You want to make things easy for that tiny engine, and not try to stress it more by adding even more wide tires. As stated, a wide 315mm tire indicates a high-powered car, while hiding under the hood is a weak-*** 4-cylinder. Pretension that's beyond pathetic !
I don’t know how old you are if you are remembering old 4cyls but, the 4cyl is certainly not a weak *** engine. The old rules no longer apply. There are people who still only will drive an 8 cyl. Your thinking is old school. P.S. I have staggered with 315s on the rear. I would have preferred non staggered but, my 450e was a CPO. I couldn’t pass it up. Unless you have a need for speed, the 4cyl is fine. Especially with the battery push.
Last edited by Elvisfan0108; Dec 7, 2024 at 08:36 PM.
I don’t know how old you are if you are remembering old 4cyls but, the 4cyl is certainly not a weak *** engine. The old rules no longer apply. .
Taken in isolation, the 2.0L Turbo 4-cylinder, puts out excellent power, at 255HP/295Torque. Paired with the GLC/GLA/GLB, it comes out as a winner, as the stress on the engine is relatively low.
The old rules of physics start rearing their head, when you pair such an engine with a 5000+lbs vehicle. As stated above, BMW's base engine for their X5, is the 3.0L Inline-6 Turbo. Their X5 PHEV is paired with the 3.0L I-6 Turbo and the electric bits.
I am sure the 2.0L performs "adequately enough", given what it is being asked to do. But I just wish MB had done the right thing, just like BMW, and gone with the I-6 Turbo, for the GLE.
PS: I used to have a 2002 Subaru WRX, back in the day, with a 2.0L Turbo engine (227HP/217Torque). And paired with a vehicle with a curb-weight of 3085 lbs, the thing was a hoot to drive, despite the noticeable rubber-band like turbo-lag. It was another one of my cars that went well above 200K miles with zero problems, and I used to personally change its oil every 5K miles. I have owned far more expensive cars since then, but I still miss that little car even now.
Taken in isolation, the 2.0L Turbo 4-cylinder, puts out excellent power, at 255HP/295Torque. Paired with the GLC/GLA/GLB, it comes out as a winner, as the stress on the engine is relatively low.
The old rules of physics start rearing their head, when you pair such an engine with a 5000+lbs vehicle. As stated above, BMW's base engine for their X5, is the 3.0L Inline-6 Turbo. Their X5 PHEV is paired with the 3.0L I-6 Turbo and the electric bits.
I am sure the 2.0L performs "adequately enough", given what it is being asked to do. But I just wish MB had done the right thing, just like BMW, and gone with the I-6 Turbo, for the GLE.
PS: I used to have a 2002 Subaru WRX, back in the day, with a 2.0L Turbo engine (227HP/217Torque). And paired with a vehicle with a curb-weight of 3085 lbs, the thing was a hoot to drive, despite the noticeable rubber-band like turbo-lag. It was another one of my cars that went well above 200K miles with zero problems, and I used to personally change its oil every 5K miles. I have owned far more expensive cars since then, but I still miss that little car even now.
Another problem is the vibration and refinement and engine noise of the four cylinder doesn't fit the luxury executive class (E-Class) GLE as well, yes the 48V mild hybrid helps but still.
Taken in isolation, the 2.0L Turbo 4-cylinder, puts out excellent power, at 255HP/295Torque. Paired with the GLC/GLA/GLB, it comes out as a winner, as the stress on the engine is relatively low.
The old rules of physics start rearing their head, when you pair such an engine with a 5000+lbs vehicle. As stated above, BMW's base engine for their X5, is the 3.0L Inline-6 Turbo. Their X5 PHEV is paired with the 3.0L I-6 Turbo and the electric bits.
I am sure the 2.0L performs "adequately enough", given what it is being asked to do. But I just wish MB had done the right thing, just like BMW, and gone with the I-6 Turbo, for the GLE.
PS: I used to have a 2002 Subaru WRX, back in the day, with a 2.0L Turbo engine (227HP/217Torque). And paired with a vehicle with a curb-weight of 3085 lbs, the thing was a hoot to drive, despite the noticeable rubber-band like turbo-lag. It was another one of my cars that went well above 200K miles with zero problems, and I used to personally change its oil every 5K miles. I have owned far more expensive cars since then, but I still miss that little car even now.
Um.....
Aren't you driving an I6 GLE?
I'm not clear on your objection. Clearly MB offers such a thing. No buck teeth or Chris Bangle, though.
PS: My GLE leaves WRX's in the dust at the track. Road course or drag. If you love boost and lag, though, WRX's are stellar. For the Traffic Light Racers out there.
I think he was referring to the engine choice for the PHEV version. I agree that the selection of the 4 cylinder for the GLE450e was unfortunate. I bet that Mercedes has a PHEV version with the I6 in development.
I think he was referring to the engine choice for the PHEV version. I agree that the selection of the 4 cylinder for the GLE450e was unfortunate. I bet that Mercedes has a PHEV version with the I6 in development.
Could be.
As MB announced when they made the "Almost All In" switch to EV's, their offerings will be "according to Market Conditions.
With a new US administration and China's economy fumbling, those Market Conditions might be leading us to more cylinders.
In the meantime, a near-500hp 2 liter four is pretty impressive.
If you're solely going with output per dollar, I think BMW has always been a better bang for your buck but since everything else is so subjective, we are all here as GLE owners.
Looking at this Copilot output, it's clear that the entry 350 is designed to make more money than the rest of the lineup while also providing a lower barrier ($$$) of entry to the GLE. I am actually surprised BMW doesn't have a 4 cylinder option (sDrive30i) priced at $59.5k to compete with the 350.
I think he was referring to the engine choice for the PHEV version. I agree that the selection of the 4 cylinder for the GLE450e was unfortunate. I bet that Mercedes has a PHEV version with the I6 in development.
They already have it. A S580E is the I6 PHEV. So back to the fact that the numbers they use to represent engine displacement are even more difficult to keep up with versus what they actually have
Um.....
Aren't you driving an I6 GLE?
I'm not clear on your objection. Clearly MB offers such a thing. No buck teeth or Chris Bangle, though.
PS: My GLE leaves WRX's in the dust at the track. Road course or drag. If you love boost and lag, though, WRX's are stellar. For the Traffic Light Racers out there.
Yes, I drive 2 MB vehicles with the I-6, which are the GLE450 and the E450.
The reference above is entirely about the lower-down GLE350 (or the GLE450e), where the 5000+lbs vehicles has been equipped with the 4-cylinder by MB, unlike competitors like BMW who equip their BASE X5 with their I-6 and not their I-4. And BMW equips their regular PHEV also, with an I-6.
And what WRXs are you referring to ? I was talking about my WRX from 22 years back. Not something from the past couple of DECADES. I have not driven any of the WRXs in 10+ years, but I doubt they weigh 3085 lbs or have the kind of seats that the original WRX came with, or have the steering feel that the prior hydraulic system that the one I drove, had.
Last edited by Roweraay; Dec 9, 2024 at 09:19 AM.
Reason: toning down the post !
Yes, I drive 2 MB vehicles with the I-6, which are the GLE450 and the E450.
The reference above is entirely about the lower-down GLE350 (or the GLE450e), where the 5000+lbs vehicles has been equipped with the 4-cylinder by MB, unlike competitors like BMW who equip their BASE X5 with their I-6 and not their I-4. And BMW equips their regular PHEV also, with an I-6.
And what WRXs are you referring to ? I was talking about my WRX from 22 years back. Not something from the past couple of DECADES. I have not driven any of the WRXs in 10+ years, but I doubt they weigh 3085 lbs or have the kind of seats that the original WRX came with, or have the steering feel that the prior hydraulic system that the one I drove, had.
You might submit your product line recommendations to MB if you feel that strongly.
Your personal dislike for 4 cyl is acknowledged. Acknowledged. Acknowledged.
IMO the GLE350 (4 cyl) is a reasonable entry level application of their four, in their hottest selling model. I spent 1,000 miles / 10 days in one as a loaner, and my only complaints were turbo lag (pre e-Boost) which I easily adapted to, and passing power above 80mph at 7,000 ft elevation. No lag once moving.
I didn't examine the WRX seats at the track. The cars weren't fast on the straights or the corners. Late models with all their snazziness. For a certain buyer who isn't me.
My Mom had an H-6 Subaru. I drove it over Vail Pass and it barely maintained 45mph with four aboard. But it had a six! For another buyer who isn't me.
If you're solely going with output per dollar, I think BMW has always been a better bang for your buck but since everything else is so subjective, we are all here as GLE owners.
Looking at this Copilot output, it's clear that the entry 350 is designed to make more money than the rest of the lineup while also providing a lower barrier ($$$) of entry to the GLE. I am actually surprised BMW doesn't have a 4 cylinder option (sDrive30i) priced at $59.5k to compete with the 350.
Edit: added power-to-weight ratio.
It's clear that we still need to check AI's work because I noticed that some figures in my previous post were incorrect. I gave it a few more prompts to get it right, asking only to reference MBUSA and BMWUSA websites. The prices aren't all that different from each other. Both makes must have their reasons for developing their lineups. Some thoughts after looking at this:
Why does BMW not offer a competitor to the 350's 4-cylinder?
Why does BMW not offer a GLE 53 competitor?
Why does Mercedes-Benz not offer a 450 without 4MATIC?
Why did Mercedes-Benz choose to mate their PHEV 450e with a 4-cylinder instead of an inline-6? Is it price? They would probably have to charge $5-10k more to justify the added two cylinders. Maybe they did a market study and found that potential owners don't care about 0-60 times and instead just want to reduce their gas and purchase costs?
I didn't examine the WRX seats at the track. The cars weren't fast on the straights or the corners. .
You are repeatedly talking about the latest WRXs. I am talking about the 22 year old WRX from 2001/2002, which weighed 3085 lbs and came with a 227HP Turbo 2.0L boxer engine (similar displacement to the 2.0L Turbo in the HUGE GLE350 of 2025).
Those sport seats in the 2001/2002 WRX (essentially Japanese spec sport-seats) disappeared in 2003 and no Subaru since, has gotten it back. No iteration of the higher performance WRX STI that ever appeared in the US, has gotten a decent sport seat (other market STIs get full Recaro seats as an option, while the US market gets a weak partial Recaro). So if you go examine the current WRX seats, you will no longer find what I am talking about.
The point however, is NOT about the WRX. The point is about the 5000+lbs GLE, with a similar 2.0L Turbo 4-cylinder that the 3085lbs WRX had 2 DECADES back. Does the point now make sense ?
Either way, my last post on this topic. The point has been repeated ad nauseum.
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Slideshow: A one-of-one U.S.-spec Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren Roadster became even rarer after a factory-backed transformation at McLaren's headquarters.
