Ack! Dropped caliper thumb-wheel into oil filter housing
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From: South Texas
2014 GLK350 base model (active) ; 2001 E320 base (retired); 2001 Wrangler soft-top
Thanks for checking in.
I purchased the Stahlwille 12600 pickup tool @juststeve suggested.
However, due to a heart-breaking event here, I've yet to do anything with the GLK (or anything else I've needed to do around here). I'll follow-up when I've made any progress.
I purchased the Stahlwille 12600 pickup tool @juststeve suggested.
However, due to a heart-breaking event here, I've yet to do anything with the GLK (or anything else I've needed to do around here). I'll follow-up when I've made any progress.
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From: South Texas
2014 GLK350 base model (active) ; 2001 E320 base (retired); 2001 Wrangler soft-top
It's been like a "month of Sundays", right??
Wish I had good news. Yesterday, I removed the small "lower oil pan cover" - it's about 3" x 6" with six 10E screws securing it.
I'd hoped the missing thumbscrew would show itself when I removed the pan, but no such luck.
Not sure what to do next.
Wish I had good news. Yesterday, I removed the small "lower oil pan cover" - it's about 3" x 6" with six 10E screws securing it.
I'd hoped the missing thumbscrew would show itself when I removed the pan, but no such luck.
Not sure what to do next.
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It's been like a "month of Sundays", right??
Wish I had good news. Yesterday, I removed the small "lower oil pan cover" - it's about 3" x 6" with six 10E screws securing it.
I'd hoped the missing thumbscrew would show itself when I removed the pan, but no such luck.
Not sure what to do next.
Wish I had good news. Yesterday, I removed the small "lower oil pan cover" - it's about 3" x 6" with six 10E screws securing it.
I'd hoped the missing thumbscrew would show itself when I removed the pan, but no such luck.
Not sure what to do next.
You are in an unenviable situation my friend....You literally have 3 choices if you are unable to see the thumb wheel from the top of the oil return:
1) never drive the car again
2) drive it and pray the thumb wheel stays lodge where it is for the life of the car
3) have the engine disassembled starting with the oil return and working your way down the path it could have taken due to gravity.
Since option 1 isn't really an option... you are left with option 2 and 3.
Option 2: If the engine runs and the thumb wheel (made of AL I presume) make it to the camshaft or any of the moving parts it could be pulverized by the hardened steel and the shrapnel will travel through-out the crankcase.
I don't know how large the oil pathways are inside the engine but if they are small the thumb wheel (in whole or parts of it) can also restrict oil flow starving whatever is downstream.
In the worst case scenario another engine costs X.
Option 3: If you have someone disassemble it and hunt for the thumb wheel then cost could be much less than X (you hit the jackpot on the first parts your remove), equal to X or far greater than X.
And that's not to say that the mechanic will ever actually find the thumb wheel even after tearing the engine completely apart.
Its a gamble either way you look at it.
The only thing you can do is to make an educated decision based on what multiple mechanics who specialize in this engine tell you.
Why not take a ride to an independent armed with all the pics you have taken and see what they say? Its not really necessary for them to have to vehicle in front of them unless they have a scope that can peer down in there.
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From: New Hampsha
'17 GLS450, '14 GLK250, Grandpa's Roadster
I think you are correct that the passage is the drain for the filter housing. If that is the case, there's virtually no chance the part will ever cause any trouble. Worst case is it will make its way to the pan and stay there for the rest of the engine's life. Second worst is it will interfere with the oil draining out when you pull the filter. You can try pumping some oil in the hole and see what happens. If it disappears, it's a drain and it's working. If it backs up then it's not a drain and you really need to find the piece. If it drains slowly, you're still probably OK.
One thing you can try is to get a stiff piece of plastic hose small enough to slip down the passage (slightly smaller than the thumb wheel) and connect it to a shop vac. Feed it down the hole until you hit something, then turn on the vac, and, hopefully, pull it and the thumb wheel back out. Or, try the boroscope. Have you determined the part is ferrous? If it's not, the magnet won't work. Also, if the passage goes through an iron block the magnet won't work. You also may be able to push it down the line into the pan with something like an old speedometer cable core.
One thing you can try is to get a stiff piece of plastic hose small enough to slip down the passage (slightly smaller than the thumb wheel) and connect it to a shop vac. Feed it down the hole until you hit something, then turn on the vac, and, hopefully, pull it and the thumb wheel back out. Or, try the boroscope. Have you determined the part is ferrous? If it's not, the magnet won't work. Also, if the passage goes through an iron block the magnet won't work. You also may be able to push it down the line into the pan with something like an old speedometer cable core.
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From: South Texas
2014 GLK350 base model (active) ; 2001 E320 base (retired); 2001 Wrangler soft-top
Appreciate the recent replies from
I've considered a borescope, but considering the Stahlwille 12600 magnetic pickup tool has a 5mm diameter magnet, and it just fits down that hole.
If you check photo #2 in orig post (me holding erasure end of pencil), you'll see that hole is not perfectly round, and the passage makes a sharp left-hand turn, and then who knows the route after that.
I guess if I can find a borescope that has a 5mm diameter camera, it may work.
Yea, I've considered an independent shop that specializes in MB engine repair - I have one in mind, and I should take a trip to their shop.
Due to frustration, I've considered your option #2 - just fill it with oil, fire it up and see what happens.
And yea, for #3, begin the disassembly process, which may yield the thumbwheel, but I haven't found the answer to "where does that passage lead to"?
Based on my "fishing around down that passage with the Stahlwille magnetic pickup", the O.D. of the tube will have to be small, and the tubing will have to make some sharp bends upon immediate insertion into the orifice.
However, I do like the idea of leaving the pan cover off, set up a camera pointing at the pan cover opening, then pour oil down that filter orifice and see if it drains into the oil pan ... so that will be my next step.
I've considered a borescope, but considering the Stahlwille 12600 magnetic pickup tool has a 5mm diameter magnet, and it just fits down that hole.
If you check photo #2 in orig post (me holding erasure end of pencil), you'll see that hole is not perfectly round, and the passage makes a sharp left-hand turn, and then who knows the route after that.
I guess if I can find a borescope that has a 5mm diameter camera, it may work.
Yea, I've considered an independent shop that specializes in MB engine repair - I have one in mind, and I should take a trip to their shop.
Due to frustration, I've considered your option #2 - just fill it with oil, fire it up and see what happens.
And yea, for #3, begin the disassembly process, which may yield the thumbwheel, but I haven't found the answer to "where does that passage lead to"?
However, I do like the idea of leaving the pan cover off, set up a camera pointing at the pan cover opening, then pour oil down that filter orifice and see if it drains into the oil pan ... so that will be my next step.
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You have tried nothing, the simplest thing that has been recommended to you several times is get an extremely strong shop vac, like 1hp. figure how to attach it and see if it just sucks it out. A scope or magnet probably will just push it in further, but try something
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From: New Hampsha
'17 GLS450, '14 GLK250, Grandpa's Roadster
How big was the wheel? You don't need anything to be much smaller than the wheel to reach it.
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From: South Texas
2014 GLK350 base model (active) ; 2001 E320 base (retired); 2001 Wrangler soft-top
Because the filter has that snout with o-ring, and seals that lower (third) orifice, oil doesn't flow into or out of the filter through that orifice .
Last edited by calder-cay; Aug 31, 2021 at 09:08 PM.
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From: New Hampsha
'17 GLS450, '14 GLK250, Grandpa's Roadster
Otherwise, it could be the oil filter bypass. When the oil filter gets plugged up, there is a way that the pressure pushes the filter enough to open a passageway to allow oil to bypass the clogged filter and make its way into the galleries.
What you need is an oil flow diagram for the engine...
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From: New Hampsha
'17 GLS450, '14 GLK250, Grandpa's Roadster
Are you absolutely certain it went down that center hole? The "yellow" one is a lot bigger...
First, try pumping oil into the red hole and see if it goes to the pan. Then, try pumping oil into the "blue" hole and see if it appears in the red one.
First, try pumping oil into the red hole and see if it goes to the pan. Then, try pumping oil into the "blue" hole and see if it appears in the red one.
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From: New Hampsha
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No luck. When I look up mine (a Diesel) I can find a schematic for the oil system under "oil circuit", but that category doesn't show up for yours. Sorry...
I'm now pretty sure that that is the filter bypass, and as such, should lead to the oil gallery, same as the crescent shaped opening. Not good. Something you could try, which will likely be messy, is to remove the oil pressure sender and blow air into the gallery in hopes of pushing the wheel back up to the filter housing. (Block the yellow hole!) Of course, we don't know where in the scheme of things the pressure sensor is, either.
Edit: Found one here. Doesn't show much; the oil filter just shows as a symbol with an inlet and outlet.
I'm now pretty sure that that is the filter bypass, and as such, should lead to the oil gallery, same as the crescent shaped opening. Not good. Something you could try, which will likely be messy, is to remove the oil pressure sender and blow air into the gallery in hopes of pushing the wheel back up to the filter housing. (Block the yellow hole!) Of course, we don't know where in the scheme of things the pressure sensor is, either.
Edit: Found one here. Doesn't show much; the oil filter just shows as a symbol with an inlet and outlet.
Last edited by John CC; Sep 1, 2021 at 11:07 AM.
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I'm now pretty sure that that is the filter bypass, and as such, should lead to the oil gallery, same as the crescent shaped opening. Not good. Something you could try, which will likely be messy, is to remove the oil pressure sender and blow air into the gallery in hopes of pushing the wheel back up to the filter housing. (Block the yellow hole!) Of course, we don't know where in the scheme of things the pressure sensor is, either.
Edit: Found one -link- Doesn't show much; the oil filter just shows as a symbol with an inlet and outlet.
Edit: Found one -link- Doesn't show much; the oil filter just shows as a symbol with an inlet and outlet.
a) it confirms what I discovered a while back - the oil filter housing is integrated with the timing case (Page 17)
b) On that same page, we can see the front of the engine block and the possible passage entry points (see image below for possible passages circled).
c) I did not know there is a one piece "oil suction pipe with baffle (also on Page 17).
... it's quite possible that the thumb-wheel, if it fell in the direction of the oil pan, it may have fallen onto the baffle (rather than all the way to the bottom of oil pan).
I wish they showed the "mating-surface side" of the timing case cover
d) I get a good look at the inside surfaces of the oil pan (page 22)
e) and yes, we see the rather simple drawing for "Engine lubrication" routing (Page 59).
So, are we assuming the route the thumb-wheel may have taken is the "upper green" line in Box 2 (Timing case),which leads into Box 3 and to the "Spray Nozzles" ?
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From: New Hampsha
'17 GLS450, '14 GLK250, Grandpa's Roadster
If, as I suspect, the only ways out of the oil filter housing are back to the oil pump or on to the oil galleries, then the vacuum won't work as there's no way for air to enter the system behind the wheel, so it won't get sucked out. If you were able to use a small tube to actually reach the wheel it might work, assuming it can suck air down around the tube to the obstruction. Also, by the same reasoning, there is no way the wheel could have reached the oil pan. This leaves open the question of how the oil filter housing drains... I'm guessing there's enough leakage on the pressure side for it to drain that way.
The "good" news is, if you can get the timing cover off, you'll probably be able to find it...
The "good" news is, if you can get the timing cover off, you'll probably be able to find it...
Last edited by John CC; Sep 1, 2021 at 09:51 PM.
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I was just thinking about vacuum and replacement air also ! If you use a vacuum and no air enters the motor then yes, the vacuum won’t pull. What if the oil fill cap were removed ? Maybe there are vacuum lines that could be removed, and open the throttle body, I still think a vacuum is the first snd easiest try, but you have to open the motor where you can so there is airflow back to the vac. .
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From: South Texas
2014 GLK350 base model (active) ; 2001 E320 base (retired); 2001 Wrangler soft-top
I was just thinking about vacuum and replacement air also ! If you use a vacuum and no air enters the motor then yes, the vacuum won’t pull. What if the oil fill cap were removed ? Maybe there are vacuum lines that could be removed, and open the throttle body, I still think a vacuum is the first snd easiest try, but you have to open the motor where you can so there is airflow back to the vac.
Last edited by calder-cay; Sep 2, 2021 at 04:23 AM.
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2005 E320 CDI (SOLD); 2008 ML320 CDI 4MATIC
Holy moly that situation is hated! a Laerdal portable rechargeable suction device like is found on ambulance or Res-Q squad with a soft-tip suction (originally intended for tracheal suctioning) is only device I can think would be strong enough to hold suction on a thumb-screw & keep it as tube is retracted. If you haven't discovered this guy on YT yet, he has many videos of MB engine teardowns & rebuilds that might provide insight into oil galleries & other internals you're attempting to see more clearly:
https://www.youtube.com/c/TasosMoschatos
Good luck!
https://www.youtube.com/c/TasosMoschatos
Good luck!
Last edited by PSDCampervan; Sep 2, 2021 at 12:02 PM.
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From: South Texas
2014 GLK350 base model (active) ; 2001 E320 base (retired); 2001 Wrangler soft-top
If you haven't discovered this guy on YT yet, he has many videos of MB engine teardowns & rebuilds that might provide insight into oil galleries & other internals you're attempting to see more clearly:
https://www.youtube.com/c/TasosMoschato
https://www.youtube.com/c/TasosMoschato
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From: New Hampsha
'17 GLS450, '14 GLK250, Grandpa's Roadster
