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Did you determine if the wheel is magnetic? If it is, and the baffle is plastic, a strong magnet will allow you to drag the wheel somewhere that you can retrieve it.
I have several different brands of these digital calipers and I confirmed that the wheel is always non-magnetic (stainless steel).
2014 GLK350 base model (active) ; 2001 E320 base (retired); 2001 Wrangler soft-top
Originally Posted by mrvedit
I have several different brands of these digital calipers and I confirmed that the wheel is always non-magnetic (stainless steel).
To be clear, this isn't a digital caliper. It's a cheap @ss caliper I had bought after Harvey just for "close enough" measurements. As you may have seen, the only thing holding the wheel in place is a arched strip of metal
Last edited by calder-cay; Dec 22, 2021 at 09:34 PM.
I have several different brands of these digital calipers and I confirmed that the wheel is always non-magnetic (stainless steel).
I understand. My question was directed at the Original Poster, who, IIRC, was going to definitively determine if the one from his model was or was not magnetic.
2014 GLK350 base model (active) ; 2001 E320 base (retired); 2001 Wrangler soft-top
I was in Home Depot today to get diatomaceous earth and thought, "let's check on the caliper" ... found exact same one and bought it (a measly $8) ... I've confirmed the wheel is "magnetic"
I was in Home Depot today to get diatomaceous earth and thought, "let's check on the caliper" ... found exact same one and bought it (a measly $8) ... I've confirmed the wheel is "magnetic"
That is supper generous of you and valuable info. I would have bet a lot that is was non-magnetic. Yes some (cheaper?) stainless steel alloys are magnetic.
Hopefully we are giving the OP encouragement.
Yea, that is a concern ... that oil pickup tube almost rests on the 3"x6" lower pan plate, so there is a slight possibility the thumbscrew could be sucked up to the oil pump., if it gets directly under that pickup tube.
Maybe this was already discussed and I missed it, but isn't there some kind of a screen inside the oil pickup to keep larger particles (and thumb-wheels ) out of the pump?
EDIT: just saw above that oil housing is quite integrated compared to M272....damn that really sucks.
Wow talk about easy job going really wrong. That really sucks.
I think you next move is taking oil housing off and hoping it's there. Shouldn't be huge deal to take it off but it might require removing a few other part to get access to old bolt. You will also want to replace the rubber seal.
See 25:40 of this video for general idea (it's M272 engine):
The center hole is not drain to the block, It is feed to the engine. I would guess there are two holes because under higher RPM and high pressure oil bypasses the oil filter. Oil is usually pumped from the sump to the outside of the filter and then goes through the filter to the engine through the center hole. See diagram that somebody posted. That's why any crap in the oil filter is seen on the outside of the filter cartridge.
Oil makes it's way through the engine and drains down to the sump. That's how most engines operate.
If the little part fell into the center hole (either one) it can block the oil flow to the engine which will destroy the engine. There is no way it will wash down either way because it's either on its way to the engine with very small passages or to the oil pump (if it fell to the larger outside hole). It can't make its way into the sump.
Actually I looked at couple M276...filter housing looks fairly similar to M272
For example here is EBAY M276 posting, you can see the bolts that attach it. I would start seeing how to get to those bolts and take the housing off. That's really the only way.
The center hole is not drain to the block, It is feed to the engine.
He has already proven, by pumping oil into that hole, that it drains back into the block. That hole is only open when the filter lifts up off its seat. Clean oil from the filter normally flows out the hole above and to the side into the oil galleries.
He has already proven, by pumping oil into that hole, that it drains back into the block. That hole is only open when the filter lifts up off its seat. Clean oil from the filter normally flows out the hole above and to the side into the oil galleries.
If you say so. Yes, oil goes to a number of things and ends up in the oil sump. It feeds heads, chain tensioners etc. You normally pour oil into the head (where oil cap is) and it ends up in the sump.
As far as filter goes, the oil comes from outside of the filter through it and then to the oil galleys (crank, piston jets, and heads). How can oil come up from sump through the center of the filter? That would be backward, unless I misunderstand what you are saying.
Regardless, the oil filter housing has to come off.
2014 GLK350 base model (active) ; 2001 E320 base (retired); 2001 Wrangler soft-top
Originally Posted by lyonkster
Maybe this was already discussed and I missed it, but isn't there some kind of a screen inside the oil pickup to keep larger particles (and thumb-wheels ) out of the pump?
Yes, I confirmed there is a screen up inside the pickup tube, as seen in the photo ... the screen is not at the entrance of the tube, but up inside
2014 GLK350 base model (active) ; 2001 E320 base (retired); 2001 Wrangler soft-top
Originally Posted by NYCGLK
EDIT: just saw above that oil housing is quite integrated compared to M272....damn that really sucks.
Wow talk about easy job going really wrong. That really sucks.
I think you next move is taking oil housing off and hoping it's there.
Yea, there is no separate oil filter housing ... it's integrated in the timing cover, so all belts and pulleys need to come off, then that whole front timing cover needs to be removed.
Yea, there is no separate oil filter housing ... it's integrated in the timing cover, so all belts and pulleys need to come off, then that whole front timing cover needs to be removed.
I see it now...not only belts but water pump has to come off too it seems.
Maybe there is an opening that can be seen by undoing the 4 bolt under the filter.
2014 GLK350 base model (active) ; 2001 E320 base (retired); 2001 Wrangler soft-top
Originally Posted by NYCGLK
Maybe there is an opening that can be seen by undoing the 4 bolt under the filter.
Yea, I also considered those four bolts, but the parts diagrams I've seen don't show that to be an individual plate ... and from my examination of that area, it doesn't appear to be a separate plate, but I'll double-check in the morning
I think you must. The filter has a "pin" with an o-ring on the bottom that plugs that center hole. When you loosen the filter the o-ring comes out of the hole so the oil can drain out of the filter housing. See the photo in post 24. The oil comes out of the slots above (below, in the photo) the o-ring into the galleries.
the screen is not at the entrance of the tube, but up inside
I suspect that the little tangs on the bottom of the tube fit closely with the oil pan and limit the size of the object that can be drawn into the tube.
2014 GLK350 base model (active) ; 2001 E320 base (retired); 2001 Wrangler soft-top
Originally Posted by John CC
I suspect that the little tangs on the bottom of the tube fit closely with the oil pan and limit the size of the object that can be drawn into the tube.
I took the thumbwheel off the new calipers and set it up against the pickup tube, between the tangs ... two photos with different perspective below - the thickness is a bit too close ...
2014 GLK350 base model (active) ; 2001 E320 base (retired); 2001 Wrangler soft-top
Originally Posted by mrvedit
then turn the engine by hand and perhaps the crank will then drop it to the bottom of the oil pan.
Since the thumb-wheel isn't magnetic, you might need an endoscope to see if it then (or already) is in the oil pan.
So today, I got out the 27mm socket, 1 inch extension, plus ratchet, put it on the crankshaft pulley bolt, and turned engine one full revolution, then spent 20 minutes fishing around with the magnetic retriever, from underneath just above the baffle - no luck.
Is the bottom of the oil sump (the part you removed) steel? If so, get a rare earth magnet and stick it to the pan, away from the pickup tube. The odds of the wheel gravitating to the pickup tube, then getting drawn in, then up the tube are pretty low, IMHO, but if it makes its way into the pan it should get snagged by the magnet.
Another thing you could do is get a piece of 1/4" hardware cloth and wrap it around the bottom of the pickup tube.
At this point, the only thing I would be concerned about is the wheel getting flung by a crank throw and doing some damage that way.
So today, I got out the 27mm socket, 1 inch extension, plus ratchet, put it on the crankshaft pulley bolt, and turned engine one full revolution, then spent 20 minutes fishing around with the magnetic retriever, from underneath just above the baffle - no luck.
BTW, the thumbwheel is magnetic.
of course not. It's sitting in some passage in the filter housing. It's not going to magically drop into the sump. It's impossible. Have you tried using a high powered vet shop vac to vacuum it out? maybe you can rent heavy duty one at Home Depot and make skinny tube attachment the side of the round hole?
On M272, in order to take off the crank pulley there is a special tool to counter hold it so you don't spin the motor backwards. Those pulleys require a lot of muscle or lots of extensions. I used floor jack handle for the tool and 2ft breaker bar for the bolt. I'm not sure if there is a similar tool for M276 motor or another way to lock the pulley in place.
2014 GLK350 base model (active) ; 2001 E320 base (retired); 2001 Wrangler soft-top
Originally Posted by John CC
Is the bottom of the oil sump (the part you removed) steel? If so, get a rare earth magnet and stick it to the pan, away from the pickup tube. The odds of the wheel gravitating to the pickup tube, then getting drawn in, then up the tube are pretty low, IMHO, but if it makes its way into the pan it should get snagged by the magnet.
Another thing you could do is get a piece of 1/4" hardware cloth and wrap it around the bottom of the pickup tube.
At this point, the only thing I would be concerned about is the wheel getting flung by a crank throw and doing some damage that way.
Yep - that small pan cover is steel - photo below shows it on its edge, with refrigerator magnet and magnetic pickup tool stuck to the cover ... I like this idea !!
Rare earth magnets are the way to go ... car makers put magnets in oil pans and transmission pans
I think I'll give this a go - use a very thin piece of wire (brightly colored) and insert it into lower orifice, and see if I can see its end, looking up through oil pan opening
Use a speedometer cable and see if you can feed it all the way down into the crankcase. If you can't find one, try a piece of 16 gauge stranded wire. (Stiff but flexible is the way to go.)
2014 GLK350 base model (active) ; 2001 E320 base (retired); 2001 Wrangler soft-top
Originally Posted by NYCGLK
of course not. It's sitting in some passage in the filter housing. It's not going to magically drop into the sump.
It's impossible. Have you tried using a high powered vet shop vac to vacuum it out? maybe you can rent heavy duty one at Home Depot and make skinny tube attachment the side of the round hole?
There's a plastic baffle bolted to the bottom of the upper oil pan, along its length ... and has slots .. when I'm fishing around up above the baffle, I must insert the magnetic retriever thru those slots ... see post #51 for an image of the baffle - link to #51 just below.
And yes, I have a 6hp Craftsman shop vac that I let run for 10 minutes ... I also did the opposite, ran a 150 psi air compressor for about five minutes.
2014 GLK350 base model (active) ; 2001 E320 base (retired); 2001 Wrangler soft-top
Originally Posted by John CC
Use a speedometer cable and see if you can feed it all the way down into the crankcase. If you can't find one, try a piece of 16 gauge stranded wire. (Stiff but flexible is the way to go.)
I used three "probes", all about 1.5 foot long
a) 16 gauge stranded wire
b) 20 gauge aluminum, solid core no sheath
c) 3/16" wide x 12 inch long cable tie.
#
For A and B, I could only insert them about 8" and they stopped - I could not push them any further. Both wires didn't provide enough feedback showing which route they were taking.
For C, I was able to push almost the full length. What's interesting is the tie would only allow to be routed at about a 45° angle to the engine (think crank) - see photo.
It would travel about 8", then stopped, but after a couple of extra pushes, it routed downwards. How do I know downward? Because 1/2" of its tip is slightly bent. I inserted the tie into the orifice with that bent tip pointing downward.
I need a cable tie that's 2-3 foot long
Phot taken standing in front of grill, pointing to back
Last edited by calder-cay; Dec 30, 2021 at 07:25 PM.
There's a plastic baffle bolted to the bottom of the upper oil pan, along its length ... and has slots .. when I'm fishing around up above the baffle, I must insert the magnetic retriever thru those slots ... see post #51 for an image of the baffle - link to #51 just below.
And yes, I have a 6hp Craftsman shop vac that I let run for 10 minutes ... I also did the opposite, ran a 150 psi air compressor for about five minutes.
I think the baffle you are talking about is called windage tray which essentially catches oil from the crank and pavents oil sloshing by the the crank spinning at 5-6k rpm.
In that part of the engine oil travels through the case from the oil filter and then through the crank (there are holes drilled in the crank for oil to feed rod bearings). Oil is also fed to piston sprayers. All this oil goes through little passages and rod bearings with a few 1/1000s of tolerances.
Nothing dropped into oil filter housing will come out into the sump.
Most people on this thread never seen engine apart and or have a clue of how it works. But all engines (outside of rotary one) have the same basic functionalities and fundamentals.
The black plastic tube with mesh inside is called pick up tube...it sucks oil in by the oil pump which feeds to oil filter (to the outside hole in the housing). So even if you dropped the piece there it would get stuck in the oil pump.
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