Hammer212

Thought I'd narrowed down my search for an '19 X5 DD replacement to either the '25 GLE 580 or the GLE53. While on paper the GLEs have 2.5 cubic feet more of total cargo space behind the first row compared to the X5, my eyes-on experience yesterday suggests otherwise. Perhaps it's because the GLE's second row seems to be positioned further behind the front row by 3" as compared to the X5, encroaching by that much into the rear cargo area... don't know.

In any event, it's brought under consideration the GLS 450 and its more generous cargo capacity. (A loaded 580 approaches unaffordability.) But along with that comes concern about drivability. Will it be an anesthesizing experience? Not looking for the experience I have in my E63, but nor am I looking for a luxo-barge. My wife is comfort- and ease-of-handling-biased, and I want sufficient power and handling to confidently do spirited overtakes on single-land roadways.

The MY25 DOG (May 2024 version) indicates that E-ABC is a $6,500 option on the GLS 580 and is not available on the GLS 450. It includes E-ACTIVE BODY CONTROL (490) and Underguard (481). Gives rise to these questions:

1. What incremental handling benefits should I expect over the standard equipment suspension?
2. Why, other than perhaps the higher curb weight, is E-ABC offered on the 580 and not on the 450?
3. How likely is it that the inline-6 will disappoint, in a vehicle of this size and weight?

We'll be doing test drives, so this is just some early recon to try and go into those with wider eyes, richer understanding of the suspension options. Candidly hoping further examination of the GLE's cargo space will prove that it's sufficient to meet our needs. But in the event it's not...

Thanks.

EWL5

Test drives will answer your questions!

There are good and bad experiences w/E-ABC. Make sure you're ready to pony up beaucoup bucks in case it fails out of warranty!

jkaetz

ABC is amazing, it will lessen some road imperfections and completely delete others. You'll likely not notice the difference until you drive the same roads without ABC and realize just what it is doing. That said, some people have noted that it feels somewhat unnatural. It will also likely be difficult to find one to test drive as the take rate is low.

The I6 + ISG + 9 Speed transmission should provide plenty of go for normal driving but this is easy to test drive. That said, don't drive the 580 and then go back to a 450.

Hammer212

@jkaetz Ouch. Good advice.

Reminds me of a Scorpions lyric from back in the day: "Don't make no promises your body can't keep." I shouldn't test drive a loaded GLS 580 if my wallet ain't ready to put that much into a DD.

Thanks for the reply.

jkaetz

We simply made the choice to not buy new. Found a 2 year old with ~ 7000 miles on it last November. Nearly 30% off the sticker.

Hammer212

Well... looks like this question is a moot point for me now. Did some test driving today, and the cargo space in the GLE will be sufficient to meet our needs. No need for me to consider the GLS or to be concerned with its road manners. For more details on what I found:

https://mbworld.org/forums/gle63s-gl...ml#post8999049

wildta

I love my E-ABC but I wouldn't get it again unless they improved the system further. I don't like that it can't do the roadscan at night or during inclement weather since it's reliant on the camera to scan the road. If they improved this suspension it could easily replace airmatic and ARC on the AMGs like what Porsche is doing in the Taycan and Panamera.

Here's porsche's new Active Ride suspension which is very similar to E-ABC.

https://www.motor1.com/features/7124...e-active-ride/


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jkaetz

Porsche's implementation is indeed incredible. I don't believe we'll see it out side EVs though as my understanding is that it uses the high voltage battery (400 - 800 volts) and is totally reactionary VS the measly 48 volts and road scan version used by E-ABC. They said the only reason they have springs at all is to keep the car off the ground when the system is powered down else they could have implemented the entire suspension system with only the electro hydraulics. I just hope the technology continues to evolve and trickles down to more normal cars too as it will be a significant leap in comfort/handling for any vehicle it's implemented on.

I was also really intrigued by Porsche's electric motors in the turbochargers which also use the high voltage battery to spin them up with no lag and their ability to keep the engine at 1 lambda instead of having to make it run rich under a heavy load.

wildta

The reaction is 13hz though, quite quick. If both could adopt some type of lidar roadscan so it works all the time with better accuracy, that would be a nice improvement.

I saw that same video a few weeks ago. I was intrigued as well. The new 911 T-Hybrid adds 110lbs compared to its predecessor (so 3% increase), an additional cost increase of $16k (9.7% increase), and the new turbo hybrid adds 61hp (12.7% increase).
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mikapen

Just like the AMG53 supercharger. Porsche has finally copied the MB approach, which was derived from the MB F1 engine, 2014 forward.

That Engineering Explained guy isn't really aware of car tech that wasn't presented in his most recent test drive briefing.

You can always tell which manufacturer just sponsored his junket - he just reads the Presser they gave him, with sometimes inappropriate diagrams to make his data look impressive.

He also thinks Tesla has more self driving cars on US roads, but it's actually Mercedes. And that Audi was first with LED lighting. Not true, and his credibility suffers.

The Porsche suspension tech follows an earlier MB Magic Ride approach as well.

I'm not saying that the Porsche suspension doesn't work - just that it's not new.

DC-BENZ

I like the Curve feature on E-ABC the most. The pot hole feature is hit or miss for me in that sometimes I don't feel speed humps and speed bumps and other times I do.

BenjaminKohl

Just for clarification: e-abc not being offered on the 450 is not for technical reasons; it's purely a decision the fine folks (minorly sarcastic) at mbusa made. It was available on the 2020 MY GLS450 (and GLE450 and GLE580) but dropped after that due to a low take rate and/or low supply and a desire to focus the option on models with a higher take rate.

jkaetz

Such an odd line of thinking, I can only imagine how that conversation went.
"Not many people are selecting this option, what should we do?"
"I know, let's only make it available on the higher end models!"
I'd be willing to guess it had a low take rate due to the expense and not understanding what the technology is actually capable of. I'll further guess the average car buyer looks at the fuel mileage number, price tag, then technology package. No one outside of enthusiasts would likely even look at a ~$6500 suspension option.

wildta

Also, it's still offered for GLEs heading to Europe. I can't imagine their take rate is any better than the US.

BenjaminKohl

I think it's an incredibly normal line of thinking. "The vast majority of our GLE450s and GLS450s are ordered by the dealership in fairly low specs and leased by someone looking for an attractive monthly payment. They rarely have high end equipment. Almost no one is special ordering one and of those that are, a tiny number are adding e-abc. It's kind of nuts to take an ~$75,000 GLE and add $8,200 to it in one option, and still pretty crazy to be looking at an $85,000 GLS and wanting to add $6,500 to the price. On the other hand, the majority of GLS580s are special ordered and by a much more discerning customer. A much higher percent of customers are adding the e-abc, as when you're looking at a car that costs $125,000, $6,500 is a much smaller percent increase in price and much more digestible. So, if we're gonna disctoninue it on some models, which should we do?"

Well, far fewer GLEs and GLSs are sold in Europe, and on average they are a nicer spec. These are incredibly expensive and low volume cars in most of the rest of the world. So, actually, I'd assume that e-abc has a much higher take rate in those markets in fact.

jkaetz

That doesn't explain why it can't be an option though. Options are after all.....optional.

EWL5

It's just one strategy car makes use to get you to move to the next model/trim up!

From a manufacturer standpoint, the fewer part SKUs you have to worry about for a specific model, the better!

RJC

So glad I stumbled onto this thread - I'm in the same boat, want the DC7 but it's not offered in the 450, don't want a 580 as it's a bit of a gas hog even though it's a MHEV. The 580 also says it has ADS PLUS what's the diff between the 450's ADS and the 580's ADS PLUS? Am going with the 23" rims and want to help make the ride as compliant as possible.
Also want to get this straight, the DC7 doesn't work at night? Seriously?

jkaetz

The road surface scan portion needs to be able to see the road. Since it uses the AR Camera to do this it doesn't do the surface scan at night.

mikapen

You'll see the same messages on robo taxis and self-driving cars when they arrive. Industry-wide.
Also inclement weather.

I'm also curious about the ADS plus.

wildta

Inclement weather can be as simple as overcast too. At least that's my experience with E-ABC. The camera reads better on sunny days vs overcast days (not the dark rainy clouds, but even a very soft, light marine layer reduces the surface scans ability). I have several dips nearby and cloudy days are hit or miss when driving over them. I wished they implemented LIDAR instead of a camera.

EWL5

Based on this "part-time" operation, I wouldn't feel comfortable paying for E-ABC myself!

RJC

This is so puzzling, couldn’t the camera also have infrared activation when it gets dark? MB’s night vision was excellent in my S Coupes.

mikapen

It does work when it's dark.

There's the difference between seeing undulations in the road to anticipate and compensate for them (E-ABC), compared to seeing the lane striping for steering assist.

My comment above, about robo taxis and self- driving cars, was talking about state and federal regulations that will require handover to the driver under adverse conditions.
Right now, among other things, it's 40 mph max, rain, fog, etc. Even the ones that use lidar.
The feds aren't regulating E-ABC, at least yet.

RJC

So it does function at night - well that makes so much more sense - and after thinking about it further these vehicles have excellent headlights so the cameras should see the undulations well albeit less so in inclement conditions. Nonetheless I’d be stuck getting a 580 to get the abc - if one orders 23’s on a 450 it certainly should be an option.

what about the diff between ads and ads plus? Any info?