Dubai races-SLR vs C6 Z06
05-28-2007, 07:02 PM
#176
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I see....so do tell: at what tracks, if any, do you currently possess a lap record? Because, after all, by your "logic", who own one, should be far more emminently qualified to lecture us on the relative merits of a Lamborghini than Horst von Saurma, who does not, afaik, own one.
So, please list the tracks, since you are "living it" as you put it. Also feel free to list the tracks at which you beat the times run by the fine drivers at Motor Trend, Road & Track, and Car & Driver, none of whom own a Lambo.
Just because you own a Picasso doesn't mean you can paint.
You showed one, I showed many.
As I've told you before: you assume a lot. You have absolutely no idea what my financial state of affairs is. If you do, post it. You have no clue, and are, as usual, simply making things up to support your preconceived notions.
Provide one instance of proof to support this, allan. You know my name? Where I live? My portfolio? My 401K? Please, by all means, share it with the forum.
To quote Sting: you still don't know nothin' 'bout me. Which, of course, doesn't prevent you from making it up.
So, please list the tracks, since you are "living it" as you put it. Also feel free to list the tracks at which you beat the times run by the fine drivers at Motor Trend, Road & Track, and Car & Driver, none of whom own a Lambo.
Just because you own a Picasso doesn't mean you can paint.
You showed one, I showed many.
As I've told you before: you assume a lot. You have absolutely no idea what my financial state of affairs is. If you do, post it. You have no clue, and are, as usual, simply making things up to support your preconceived notions.
Provide one instance of proof to support this, allan. You know my name? Where I live? My portfolio? My 401K? Please, by all means, share it with the forum.
To quote Sting: you still don't know nothin' 'bout me. Which, of course, doesn't prevent you from making it up.
Maybe you have forgotten how to count, or you were to busy hiding from your boss at your 9-5 desk job, but you showed 2 instances where the Vette was faster, I showed you 3 where it was not.
In your world, everyone says Vanilla is best, thats what you go with. In my world, I give chocolate a try.
As for your finances, I need not know. You are most certainly a car guy, and a car guy would buy whatever it was within reason that they could afford. You have an 01CLK. A car worth 15K at best. Who knows, maybe Robin Leach will start a show called "Lifestyles of the Poor and Pathetic" and youll get a chance to show us what you got.
05-28-2007, 07:11 PM
#177
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And now you can add number 4 to your list, at the Bedford Auto Drome. Same time, same day, same driver.
Lamborghini. 1.22.80
Z06 1.24.45
I was trying to see if I could find info on an 01CLK, but there was none available.
So then I called Mercedes,figuring this CLK must be something special, let me find out for myself. They informed that they didnt stock cars that old and advised me to try the Buy Here, Pay Here lots.
Lamborghini. 1.22.80
Z06 1.24.45
I was trying to see if I could find info on an 01CLK, but there was none available.
So then I called Mercedes,figuring this CLK must be something special, let me find out for myself. They informed that they didnt stock cars that old and advised me to try the Buy Here, Pay Here lots.
05-28-2007, 07:46 PM
#178
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It isn't ultra-low production; it is demand.
1310 1966 - SHELBY COBRA 427 ROADSTER CSX3301 $850,000
This car went for about $6,500 brand new if memory serves...in 2006 dollars, this is $40149.38--less than the cost of a C6. Therefore, the value of this car increased at 21x the rate of inflation. Inflation does NOT explain this, and I never implied it. And it doesn't explain it for the Corvettes either.
http://www.barrett-jackson.com/aucti....asp?id=164280 Sold for $67,310, .
Or this one:
http://www.sportscarmarket.com/profi...ini/index.html Sold for $69K.
What does Sports Car Market magazine have to say about the Countach prices, using the previous as an example? Allow me to quote:
Originally Posted by Sports Car Market Magazine
The SCM Analysis
This car sold for £37,250—roughly $69,000—at Bonhams' s Hendon sale on April 24, 2006. From where I sit, that's a fair price; read on if you dare, that's as warm and cuddly as I'm getting today.
As George Santayana said: "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." To keep me from sounding like a scratched CD, I have sat and leafed through my general musings from issues of SCM over the last few years regarding the Lamborghini Countach. Folks, the price this car made fulfills my every prediction. What was once $250,000 and a great collectible is now $70,000 and sinking. Observing the value trend has been like watching a slow train wreck.
In no way am I purposely trying to offend lovers of the Countach; let me explain. I do like the early Countach "periscope" cars; they are very cool, clean, and purposeful. Replacing the Miura must have been an incredible challenge, and the LP400 rocked the early 1970s automotive world. Everyone that I know who has owned one seemed to have a great appreciation for all good design from Italy.
But the later evolutions of the LP400 reflect all that is wrong with 1980s exotic cars: dated looks, expensive repairs, poor parts supply, compromised build quality, crazy safety add-ons, and, by anyone's standard, just OK usability. Harsh? Nope, just honest.
The stereotypical "poster of a Countach and Farrah Fawcett in every teenage boy's room" has to be revisited and updated. Have you seen Farrah Fawcett recently? She acts really kooky and has aged as gracefully as Joan Rivers. The same can be said for the Anniversary Countach. It isn't getting more beautiful or graceful; think rolling up the sleeves of your shoulder-pad-fitted pastel Versace jacket. Acceptable today only at a Halloween bash.
But here's today's honest hook. The aforementioned teenagers have in fact grown up, and some of them (loud groan) have started to collect 1980s cars as the focus of their collection, which is why these Countaches aren't priced like Morris Minors—yet. Me? I'd rather have the Minor (specifically one of the pickups), so my head ain't right either, I suppose.
Guys, disco is dead, "Charlie's Angels" has been updated to include Cameron Diaz, Lucy Liu, and Drew Barrymore, and their ride would be a Gallardo Spyder.
Remember, exotic cars are all about swagger. If you pull up in an Anniversary Countach outside The Ivy in Beverly Hills (or any other crowded bar/restaurant in America on any Thursday night), with Ms. Fawcett as your passenger, this will be the scenario:
Everyone will stare and mutter. When you get the door for her and hand over her cane so she can get out, you might get the idea why I feel this way. Let's just hope her skirt isn't a micro-mini.
If, for a split second, you see yourself in that scenario and you're not wincing with the slightest tinge of "I must look like a prat driving something from 'Back to the Future,'" then go ahead and part with the pesos to own a Countach. I'll supply the Foreigner/Styx/38 Special cassettes.
Now, getting out of your Gallardo with Cameron Diaz is another story. A round of discreet golf claps and free parking out front, no doubt. And I'm sure we'd all agree that a micro-mini would be just fine here.
This car sold for £37,250—roughly $69,000—at Bonhams' s Hendon sale on April 24, 2006. From where I sit, that's a fair price; read on if you dare, that's as warm and cuddly as I'm getting today.
As George Santayana said: "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." To keep me from sounding like a scratched CD, I have sat and leafed through my general musings from issues of SCM over the last few years regarding the Lamborghini Countach. Folks, the price this car made fulfills my every prediction. What was once $250,000 and a great collectible is now $70,000 and sinking. Observing the value trend has been like watching a slow train wreck.
In no way am I purposely trying to offend lovers of the Countach; let me explain. I do like the early Countach "periscope" cars; they are very cool, clean, and purposeful. Replacing the Miura must have been an incredible challenge, and the LP400 rocked the early 1970s automotive world. Everyone that I know who has owned one seemed to have a great appreciation for all good design from Italy.
But the later evolutions of the LP400 reflect all that is wrong with 1980s exotic cars: dated looks, expensive repairs, poor parts supply, compromised build quality, crazy safety add-ons, and, by anyone's standard, just OK usability. Harsh? Nope, just honest.
The stereotypical "poster of a Countach and Farrah Fawcett in every teenage boy's room" has to be revisited and updated. Have you seen Farrah Fawcett recently? She acts really kooky and has aged as gracefully as Joan Rivers. The same can be said for the Anniversary Countach. It isn't getting more beautiful or graceful; think rolling up the sleeves of your shoulder-pad-fitted pastel Versace jacket. Acceptable today only at a Halloween bash.
But here's today's honest hook. The aforementioned teenagers have in fact grown up, and some of them (loud groan) have started to collect 1980s cars as the focus of their collection, which is why these Countaches aren't priced like Morris Minors—yet. Me? I'd rather have the Minor (specifically one of the pickups), so my head ain't right either, I suppose.
Guys, disco is dead, "Charlie's Angels" has been updated to include Cameron Diaz, Lucy Liu, and Drew Barrymore, and their ride would be a Gallardo Spyder.
Remember, exotic cars are all about swagger. If you pull up in an Anniversary Countach outside The Ivy in Beverly Hills (or any other crowded bar/restaurant in America on any Thursday night), with Ms. Fawcett as your passenger, this will be the scenario:
Everyone will stare and mutter. When you get the door for her and hand over her cane so she can get out, you might get the idea why I feel this way. Let's just hope her skirt isn't a micro-mini.
If, for a split second, you see yourself in that scenario and you're not wincing with the slightest tinge of "I must look like a prat driving something from 'Back to the Future,'" then go ahead and part with the pesos to own a Countach. I'll supply the Foreigner/Styx/38 Special cassettes.
Now, getting out of your Gallardo with Cameron Diaz is another story. A round of discreet golf claps and free parking out front, no doubt. And I'm sure we'd all agree that a micro-mini would be just fine here.
How much did that sell for brand new? Don't bother, I already checked: around $140K, right? Which is, in 2006 dollars, about $239K. Meaning that, in inflation-adjusted dollars, the Countach is currently worth about 1/4 of its original price, while the Corvettes are going for 10X theirs, despite having greater production numbers.
Twenty years from now the Gallardo's and Murcielagos will still be in demand simply because of the lower production numbers. Just as the Countach and Diablos are today.
There are no 50 year old Lamborghinis (or then your list of 1950-1960 restored Corvettes would make sense) but a 1970 Miura is half a million dollars. Nothing on that list comes close.
There are no 50 year old Lamborghinis (or then your list of 1950-1960 restored Corvettes would make sense) but a 1970 Miura is half a million dollars. Nothing on that list comes close.
1285 1967 CHEVROLET CORVETTE COUPE AKA: "THE LAST STING RAY" 600000.00
And speaking of reading carefully: could you please point out where I argued (before this post, anyway) anything about Lambos' auction values? I simply pointed out the folly of allan's argument that Corvettes aren't collectable with some auction data. I made no claim or representation of the relative value of Lambos.
Learn to read more carefully.
Last edited by Improviz; 05-28-2007 at 07:55 PM.
05-28-2007, 07:52 PM
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CLS55 AMG
Maybe you have forgotten how to count, or you were to busy hiding from your boss at your 9-5 desk job, but you showed 2 instances where the Vette was faster, I showed you 3 where it was not.
In your world, everyone says Vanilla is best, thats what you go with. In my world, I give chocolate a try.
In your world, everyone says Vanilla is best, thats what you go with. In my world, I give chocolate a try.
The data you refer to was exactly that, and if you are arguing that this is valid, then Jan Magnesson's time fo 7'40" at the ring must be equally as valid, and no Lambo, period, has matched that time.
Otherwise, your data is invalid by your own standards. You cannot have it both ways.
As for your finances, I need not know. You are most certainly a car guy, and a car guy would buy whatever it was within reason that they could afford. You have an 01CLK. A car worth 15K at best. Who knows, maybe Robin Leach will start a show called "Lifestyles of the Poor and Pathetic" and youll get a chance to show us what you got.
It only shows you for what you are: a pathetic, petty, insecure, sad little man who can only feel good about himself by attempting to belittle others. In trying to act the bigshot, you succeed only in making yourself look small. Believe what you want: it is of no consequence to me. But the facts still stand, whether I drive a Lambo or a bread truck.
05-28-2007, 07:54 PM
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CLS55 AMG
05-28-2007, 08:03 PM
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allanlambo, you didn't answer my questions. Please answer the following:
Where do you currently hav a track record? You've "lived it", right? So where are the results? You blab blab blab about the car's superior track numbers; have you ever run it at a track event and actually won?
I see....so do tell: at what tracks, if any, do you currently possess a lap record? Because, after all, by your "logic", who own one, should be far more emminently qualified to lecture us on the relative merits of a Lamborghini than Horst von Saurma, who does not, afaik, own one.
So, please list the tracks, since you are "living it" as you put it. Also feel free to list the tracks at which you beat the times run by the fine drivers at Motor Trend, Road & Track, and Car & Driver, none of whom own a Lambo.
Just because you own a Picasso doesn't mean you can paint.
So, please list the tracks, since you are "living it" as you put it. Also feel free to list the tracks at which you beat the times run by the fine drivers at Motor Trend, Road & Track, and Car & Driver, none of whom own a Lambo.
Just because you own a Picasso doesn't mean you can paint.
05-28-2007, 08:13 PM
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Lamborghini Countach, BMW M3, ML 500 x2, S500 Lorinser
6000 Z06's, you mean?
Umm, are you looking at the same data I'm looking at? Most of the cars I listed went for well over $100K, and few of them were 1950's examples. In fact, the examples which fetched the highest prices were from the late 1960's, which were far more numerous. For example, in 1967, there were 3,832Corvettes produced with the 427/390 horse motor. Ragtops outsold hardtops by 2:1. And yet, these were pulling in the $150-200K range at auction.
It isn't ultra-low production; it is demand.
No, I wasn't implying inflation, for the following reason: per this inflation calculator, $3,000 in 1972 dollars is worth exactly $14,226.71 in 2006 dollars--the most recent year for which data are available. You're the expert, right? Have you seen a 427 AC Cobra selling for $14,226.71 lately?? I'll answer for you: hell no. They're in the half million range. For example, Barrett-Jackson sold one for this at Scottsdale this year:
1310 1966 - SHELBY COBRA 427 ROADSTER CSX3301 $850,000
This car went for about $6,500 brand new if memory serves...in 2006 dollars, this is $40149.38--less than the cost of a C6. Therefore, the value of this car increased at 21x the rate of inflation. Inflation does NOT explain this, and I never implied it. And it doesn't explain it for the Corvettes either.
Oh, really? Like this 1988, for example:
[url]http://www.barrett-jackson.com/auctionresults/common/cardetail.asp?id=164280 Sold for $67,310, .
Or this one:
http://www.sportscarmarket.com/profi...ini/index.html Sold for $69K.
What does Sports Car Market magazine have to say about the Countach prices, using the previous as an example? Allow me to quote:
Which, to me, doesn't exactly ring with "rush out and buy this car now"-type praise.
How much did that sell for brand new? Don't bother, I already checked: around $140K, right? Which is, in 2006 dollars, about $239K. Meaning that, in inflation-adjusted dollars, the Countach is currently worth about 1/4 of its original price, while the Corvettes are going for 10X theirs, despite having greater production numbers.
Learn to read more carefully.
Umm, are you looking at the same data I'm looking at? Most of the cars I listed went for well over $100K, and few of them were 1950's examples. In fact, the examples which fetched the highest prices were from the late 1960's, which were far more numerous. For example, in 1967, there were 3,832Corvettes produced with the 427/390 horse motor. Ragtops outsold hardtops by 2:1. And yet, these were pulling in the $150-200K range at auction.
It isn't ultra-low production; it is demand.
No, I wasn't implying inflation, for the following reason: per this inflation calculator, $3,000 in 1972 dollars is worth exactly $14,226.71 in 2006 dollars--the most recent year for which data are available. You're the expert, right? Have you seen a 427 AC Cobra selling for $14,226.71 lately?? I'll answer for you: hell no. They're in the half million range. For example, Barrett-Jackson sold one for this at Scottsdale this year:
1310 1966 - SHELBY COBRA 427 ROADSTER CSX3301 $850,000
This car went for about $6,500 brand new if memory serves...in 2006 dollars, this is $40149.38--less than the cost of a C6. Therefore, the value of this car increased at 21x the rate of inflation. Inflation does NOT explain this, and I never implied it. And it doesn't explain it for the Corvettes either.
Oh, really? Like this 1988, for example:
[url]http://www.barrett-jackson.com/auctionresults/common/cardetail.asp?id=164280 Sold for $67,310, .
Or this one:
http://www.sportscarmarket.com/profi...ini/index.html Sold for $69K.
What does Sports Car Market magazine have to say about the Countach prices, using the previous as an example? Allow me to quote:
Which, to me, doesn't exactly ring with "rush out and buy this car now"-type praise.
How much did that sell for brand new? Don't bother, I already checked: around $140K, right? Which is, in 2006 dollars, about $239K. Meaning that, in inflation-adjusted dollars, the Countach is currently worth about 1/4 of its original price, while the Corvettes are going for 10X theirs, despite having greater production numbers.
Learn to read more carefully.
Youre so caught up in "being right" you dont even know what youre arguing any more....
Your statement was that "in 1972 a Cobra cost $3000- What do they go for NOW?" AS IF the only thing involved in that equation was TIME.
You are implying that the appreciation of the SHELBY COBRA is somehow comparable to the vette... That given X number of years they will go up equally in value.... My point was, INFLATION HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE EQUATION, so in your stupid rantings youve managed to prove my very point...
COMPARING a mass produced car like the corvette to an ULTRA LOW production car like the Shelby or the Lamborghini is STUPID... Its not comparing apples to oranges... Its comparing ORCHARDS TO DIAMONDS....
As far as Sports car market and Jeremy Clarkson, and Brock Yates, and David E. Davis, none of them know the Countach as well as the people who own them and love them... The opinions of journalists means absolutely DIDLY SQUAT to anybody (except people like YOU who will never get close to owning one and thus have to take their uneducated, 15 minute opinion of the car. About the most any of them can ever come up with when pushed is "its hard to see out the back..." Brock Yates made the mistake of saying it in my presence and I told him what a *******G idiot he was for saying it, and then went on to explain to the crowd that was gathered WHY it has no such problems. ) Now... Shall I go on a LEXIS/NEXUS search and dig up every piece of tripe that has written about the corvette over the year? Trust me, there is plenty.
With regards to auction values, ANY restored classic car can bring a 6 figure price at BJ right now... ANY... A dodge dart can get those stupid numbers.... (Hell, Even AJ's cars are probably worth more than their scrap value...) So the fact that a bunch of classic vettes pull in six figures makes little headway in your argument.... Compare it to the REST of the production run.... They are GARBAGE...
And by the way, my car originally sold for $210,000. So you even got THAT wrong.... Oh... Wait.... you got that information like EVERY OTHER peice of car information you have... FROM A MAGAZINE.... (HERES A HINT... THEY ARE RARELY RIGHT ABOUT ANYTHING... Including the Prices...)
If dumb were people, youd be China.
Last edited by RomansDad; 05-28-2007 at 08:33 PM.
05-28-2007, 08:25 PM
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Ah, no....you provided only two track results: one from Road & Track, the other a list from an Italian track. But as any retard would know, if you compare a car's best times from the same track without the same driver, they are meaningless.
The data you refer to was exactly that, and if you are arguing that this is valid, then Jan Magnesson's time fo 7'40" at the ring must be equally as valid, and no Lambo, period, has matched that time.
Otherwise, your data is invalid by your own standards. You cannot have it both ways.
The funny thing is that you really seem to believe this claptrap. It only shows you for what you are: a pathetic, petty, insecure, sad little man who can only feel good about himself by attempting to belittle others. In trying to act the bigshot, you succeed only in making yourself look small.
Believe what you want: it is of no consequence to me. But the facts still stand, whether I drive a Lambo or a bread truck.
The data you refer to was exactly that, and if you are arguing that this is valid, then Jan Magnesson's time fo 7'40" at the ring must be equally as valid, and no Lambo, period, has matched that time.
Otherwise, your data is invalid by your own standards. You cannot have it both ways.
The funny thing is that you really seem to believe this claptrap.
It only shows you for what you are: a pathetic, petty, insecure, sad little man who can only feel good about himself by attempting to belittle others. In trying to act the bigshot, you succeed only in making yourself look small. Believe what you want: it is of no consequence to me. But the facts still stand, whether I drive a Lambo or a bread truck.
This is #1. And as you yourself said, that these tests are very inconclusive unless done on same day, same driver, which pretty much takes your tests, out of the mix. This test was done same day, same group of drivers, all driving each of the cars.
Quattroruote 07/2006
Vairano Track
Test Drivers
Marco Perrucca Orfei
Paolo Massai (ex Ferrari F1)
Maurizio Bré
Maurizio Giani (chief test-drivers)
Shaun Bailey from ROAD&TRACK
Douglas Kott from ROAD&TRACK (he' said "Vairano is fantastic")
Vairano Hadling track (air 18-20 °C, track 23-25 °C) http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?vie...ID=0&tID=71292
F430 1'17"373 (1"93 better than F430 MY05, cause tires PZero Corsa, fixed setup and (probably) a little bit upgraded-engine)
Gallardo 1'17"814
Viper 1'19"510
Corvette Z06 1'19"523
Ford GT 1'19"810
Porsche 997 Turbo 1'19"963
Now lets go to #2. Im unsure if this was same day, same driver, but the results are then as valid as your Hockenheim, and Nurburgring.
FIA GT track Oschersleben:
1:41.52 - 130,06 km/h - Lamborghini Gallardo
1:41.89 - 129,56 km/h - Ferrari F430 F1
1:42.30 – 128.90 km/h - Corvette Z06
1:42.74 – 128.58 km/h - Porche 997 Turbo
#3. Is same day, same driver, EVO magazone test, the Handling portion is the track time.
Evo Magazine test
Z06 / F430 / Gallardo / 997TT
Handling: 1:39.4 / 1:38.1 / 1:38.2 / 1:38.1
Slalom: 63.5kph / 69.2 / 69.1 / 67.2
Stopping Distance: 35.1 / 33.4 / 33.4 / 33.2
And now #4, is also same day, same driver test for EVO magazine.
Lamborghini. 1.22.80
Z06 1.24.45
The Road and Track article is a reprint of the Quattroroute article.
05-28-2007, 08:42 PM
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allanlambo, you didn't answer my questions. Please answer the following:
Where do you currently hav a track record? You've "lived it", right? So where are the results? You blab blab blab about the car's superior track numbers; have you ever run it at a track event and actually won?
Where do you currently hav a track record? You've "lived it", right? So where are the results? You blab blab blab about the car's superior track numbers; have you ever run it at a track event and actually won?
You are now bringing up examples of Corvettes which are one in a million, being sold at the most overpriced auction known to man, and showing a Countach which was taken to an auction intended for overpriced muscle cars. You are comparing a driver, in need of a restoration with many issues,( I live in Scottsdale, I was at the auction) to cars that are frame off restoration projects, which in themselves cost 100's of thousands of dollars to perform. The fact remains, in reality, you need 100K to buy a nice Countach which is a driver. Early, lp400 drivers, command 250K, with restored examples, having recently sold for over 400K. You wouldnt know any of these FACTs, because you think you can educate yourself and be all knowing by conducting a search of the internet.
This fact, no doubts correlates directly to the reason why you do drive a 2001 CLK.
05-28-2007, 08:45 PM
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OK, if insults is what you want....
...insults are what you'll get.
Which is because you're too much of a moron to comprehend simple English.
And my point is, I never said it did. You're too stupid to even follow the course of the debate, so let's examine the sequence, shall we:
1. YOU say that 1988 Corvettes are selling for $5,000 right now, trying to establish that they won't appreciate in the future;
2. I respond that in 1972, you could pick up 427 AC Cobras for $3,000. I did this to refute the point you made, as listed in 1. above.
3. YOU, being too stupid to even remember what it is you're arguing about, go off into outer space, bring inflation, which I HAD NOT MENTIONED, into the argument, and act as though $3,000 was a lot of money in 1972, saying that $30,000 would buy a good house. It was YOU that acted as if $3,000 in 1972 dollars was a lot of money in today's dollars, not me, moron.
(sigh....)...again, idiot: I was doing this to illustrate a point, to refute a point of yours, which obviously flew so far above your head that you couldn't even hear its wings flap. As I said before: learn to read more carefully, dolt.
[idiotic rant snipped]
I know a lot about cars, but I certainly don't have the original list price of every car that sold in the last 50 years memorized. I got my info from supercars.net, here:
http://www.supercars.net/cars/946.html
They list a 1988 Countach as having a list price of $145,000. I tried to double-check, but info for that car is sparse. Of course, you realize that this undercuts your argument even more, right?? If this car originally sold for $210,000 in 1988, this is $359266.64 in today's dollars, yet the 1988 Countach, which you assured us is getting a LOT OF MONEY right now, is pulling down $69K--about 20% of its original inflation-adjusted price.
The ACTUAL SALE PRICE I quoted for a 1988 Lamborghini Countach was $67,310. I did this AFTER you wrote:
QUITE A BIT?? It is going for 20% of its original list!!! Which is good, but certainly not indicative of collectors' status--YET. But, who knows? Like the AC Cobra in 1973, it may well achieve collectors' status at some point, and very probably will...which, of course, has absolutely nothing to do with what I was originally arguing with your buddy allan. 
You are implying that the appreciation of the SHELBY COBRA is somehow comparable to the vette... That given X number of years they will go up equally in value.... My point was, INFLATION HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE EQUATION, so in your stupid rantings youve managed to prove my very point...[=
1. YOU say that 1988 Corvettes are selling for $5,000 right now, trying to establish that they won't appreciate in the future;
2. I respond that in 1972, you could pick up 427 AC Cobras for $3,000. I did this to refute the point you made, as listed in 1. above.
3. YOU, being too stupid to even remember what it is you're arguing about, go off into outer space, bring inflation, which I HAD NOT MENTIONED, into the argument, and act as though $3,000 was a lot of money in 1972, saying that $30,000 would buy a good house. It was YOU that acted as if $3,000 in 1972 dollars was a lot of money in today's dollars, not me, moron.
[idiotic rant snipped]
http://www.supercars.net/cars/946.html
They list a 1988 Countach as having a list price of $145,000. I tried to double-check, but info for that car is sparse. Of course, you realize that this undercuts your argument even more, right?? If this car originally sold for $210,000 in 1988, this is $359266.64 in today's dollars, yet the 1988 Countach, which you assured us is getting a LOT OF MONEY right now, is pulling down $69K--about 20% of its original inflation-adjusted price.
Originally Posted by idiot
Whereas a 20 year old Lamborghini is worth QUITE A BIT....
05-28-2007, 08:52 PM
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...insults are what you'll get.
Which is because you're too much of a moron to comprehend simple English.
And my point is, I never said it did. You're too stupid to even follow the course of the debate, so let's examine the sequence, shall we:
1. YOU say that 1988 Corvettes are selling for $5,000 right now, trying to establish that they won't appreciate in the future;
2. I respond that in 1972, you could pick up 427 AC Cobras for $3,000. I did this to refute the point you made, as listed in 1. above.
3. YOU, being too stupid to even remember what it is you're arguing about, go off into outer space, bring inflation, which I HAD NOT MENTIONED, into the argument, and act as though $3,000 was a lot of money in 1972, saying that $30,000 would buy a good house. It was YOU that acted as if $3,000 in 1972 dollars was a lot of money in today's dollars, not me, moron.
(sigh....)...again, idiot: I was doing this to illustrate a point, to refute a point of yours, which obviously flew so far above your head that you couldn't even hear its wings flap. As I said before: learn to read more carefully, dolt.
[idiotic rant snipped]
I know a lot about cars, but I certainly don't have the original list price of every car that sold in the last 50 years memorized. I got my info from supercars.net, here:
http://www.supercars.net/cars/946.html
They list a 1988 Countach as having a list price of $145,000. I tried to double-check, but info for that car is sparse. Of course, you realize that this undercuts your argument even more, right?? If this car originally sold for $210,000 in 1988, this is $359266.64 in today's dollars, yet the 1988 Countach, which you assured us is getting a LOT OF MONEY right now, is pulling down $69K--about 20% of its original inflation-adjusted price.
The ACTUAL SALE PRICE I quoted for a 1988 Lamborghini Countach was $67,310. I did this AFTER you wrote:
QUITE A BIT?? It is going for 20% of its original list!!! Which is good, but certainly not indicative of collectors' status--YET. But, who knows? Like the AC Cobra in 1973, it may well achieve collectors' status at some point, and very probably will...which, of course, has absolutely nothing to do with what I was originally arguing with your buddy allan.
Which is because you're too much of a moron to comprehend simple English.
And my point is, I never said it did. You're too stupid to even follow the course of the debate, so let's examine the sequence, shall we:
1. YOU say that 1988 Corvettes are selling for $5,000 right now, trying to establish that they won't appreciate in the future;
2. I respond that in 1972, you could pick up 427 AC Cobras for $3,000. I did this to refute the point you made, as listed in 1. above.
3. YOU, being too stupid to even remember what it is you're arguing about, go off into outer space, bring inflation, which I HAD NOT MENTIONED, into the argument, and act as though $3,000 was a lot of money in 1972, saying that $30,000 would buy a good house. It was YOU that acted as if $3,000 in 1972 dollars was a lot of money in today's dollars, not me, moron.
(sigh....)...again, idiot: I was doing this to illustrate a point, to refute a point of yours, which obviously flew so far above your head that you couldn't even hear its wings flap. As I said before: learn to read more carefully, dolt.
[idiotic rant snipped]
I know a lot about cars, but I certainly don't have the original list price of every car that sold in the last 50 years memorized. I got my info from supercars.net, here:
http://www.supercars.net/cars/946.html
They list a 1988 Countach as having a list price of $145,000. I tried to double-check, but info for that car is sparse. Of course, you realize that this undercuts your argument even more, right?? If this car originally sold for $210,000 in 1988, this is $359266.64 in today's dollars, yet the 1988 Countach, which you assured us is getting a LOT OF MONEY right now, is pulling down $69K--about 20% of its original inflation-adjusted price.
The ACTUAL SALE PRICE I quoted for a 1988 Lamborghini Countach was $67,310. I did this AFTER you wrote:
QUITE A BIT?? It is going for 20% of its original list!!! Which is good, but certainly not indicative of collectors' status--YET. But, who knows? Like the AC Cobra in 1973, it may well achieve collectors' status at some point, and very probably will...which, of course, has absolutely nothing to do with what I was originally arguing with your buddy allan.
Allan is right... There is no point in arguing with people who dream about owning these things.... You keep jerking yourself off chief....
Last edited by RomansDad; 05-28-2007 at 08:54 PM.
05-28-2007, 08:58 PM
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What ever you say sport...
Lets remember, this thread has included talking **** about somebody's wife, calling people idiots, etc...
Listen, we have a big meet coming up this Saturday morning at C&C/PAG.... You're all invited... Just come on up and say hello if you're such tough guys.
You wont.
Lets remember, this thread has included talking **** about somebody's wife, calling people idiots, etc...
Listen, we have a big meet coming up this Saturday morning at C&C/PAG.... You're all invited... Just come on up and say hello if you're such tough guys.
You wont.
05-28-2007, 09:00 PM
#189
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05-28-2007, 09:08 PM
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This test was done same day, same group of drivers, all driving each of the cars.
Quattroruote 07/2006
Vairano Track
Test Drivers
Marco Perrucca Orfei
Paolo Massai (ex Ferrari F1)
Maurizio Bré
Maurizio Giani (chief test-drivers)
Shaun Bailey from ROAD&TRACK
Douglas Kott from ROAD&TRACK (he' said "Vairano is fantastic")
Quattroruote 07/2006
Vairano Track
Test Drivers
Marco Perrucca Orfei
Paolo Massai (ex Ferrari F1)
Maurizio Bré
Maurizio Giani (chief test-drivers)
Shaun Bailey from ROAD&TRACK
Douglas Kott from ROAD&TRACK (he' said "Vairano is fantastic")
So, unless you have any direct quote from the article which states that the best times in all of these cars were done by the same driver, it doesn't prove your point, now does it??
Nope.
http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/cargrouptests/archive/
So, I'd like to see it. Same with the following, also not listed on their site:
http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evoc...vette_z06.html
http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evoc...vette_z06.html
http://www.evo.co.uk/news/evonews/60..._the_ring.html
http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/carg...oble_m400.html
The last one is the only comparison they list for a Z06 (this is also on the previously listed page which lists all comparison tests). It is versus an Exige Cup, a GT3RS, and a Noble M400.
Only group test they list for a Gallardo is the Spyder vs. the F430 Spyder.
If you've got links or scans to these EVO articles you're citing, I'd like to read 'em. Could you please post them?
05-28-2007, 09:14 PM
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hahah allalambo was the original one throwing around the insults and now that improviz has owned you morons once again you resort to your pathetic who's richer comments.
I'd gladly come to crystal cove this weekend if I didn't live in Boston. I've actually really wanted to come to a crystal cove event for a while. Next time I'm in Cali I'll be sure to introduce myself. To be honest, I'd love to see Allans gallardo, but especially his red murcie, I love that color. I just hope you two don't bring your debate skills to CC with you....
I'd gladly come to crystal cove this weekend if I didn't live in Boston. I've actually really wanted to come to a crystal cove event for a while. Next time I'm in Cali I'll be sure to introduce myself. To be honest, I'd love to see Allans gallardo, but especially his red murcie, I love that color. I just hope you two don't bring your debate skills to CC with you....
05-28-2007, 09:23 PM
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I dont need to have a track record. The topic of this conversation was about an SLR vs a Z06. Stock for stock, which was faster. IM BUYING one of the 2, and have driven, and driven in the other extensively. Im willing to bet good money that A. you will NEVER own an SLR, nor anything comprable, most likely you have never even sat in one. You may have gazed at one from behind the Velvet ropes. With the amount of time I have spent behind the wheel of BOTH, the Z06 and SLR, I stated that there was NO WAY a stock Z06 will beat the SLR. You and the rest of the idiots on here started on about how it was possible, without knowing any of the variables involved. You, nor any of the other outspoken heros here have ever driven an SLR, and are in no way qualified to say which is faster.
Have you ever driven a Yugo, allan? No? What about a Sherman tank? No? A John Deere tractor? No?Well then: you are IN NO WAY QUALIFIED to state whether a Lamborghini Gallardo is faster than any of these.
You've never played at Wimbledon; therefore, you are IN NO WAY QUALIFIED to tell us who won the match.
You've never climbed Mt. Everest; therefore, you are IN NO WAY QUALIFIED to tell us who the first man to climb it was.
You've never run in the Olympics (possibly the Special Olympics, though); therefore, you are IN NO WAY QUALIFIED to tell us who came in first and second in the 100m dash in the last Olympics.
This, in the World of Allanlambo, is what qualifies as "logic".
In the World of the Rest of Us, it qualifies as "Idiocy".
You are now bringing up examples of Corvettes which are one in a million, being sold at the most overpriced auction known to man, and showing a Countach which was taken to an auction intended for overpriced muscle cars. You are comparing a driver, in need of a restoration with many issues,( I live in Scottsdale, I was at the auction)
Care to explain that, allan? Just so we are clear about this, here is a catalog of all sales from the 2007 Scottsdale auction:http://www.barrett-jackson.com/aucti...2007-bjcca.pdf
No Lambos sold. not a one.
to cars that are frame off restoration projects, which in themselves cost 100's of thousands of dollars to perform. The fact remains, in reality, you need 100K to buy a nice Countach which is a driver. Early, lp400 drivers, command 250K, with restored examples, having recently sold for over 400K. You wouldnt know any of these FACTs, because you think you can educate yourself and be all knowing by conducting a search of the internet.
This fact, no doubts correlates directly to the reason why you do drive a 2001 CLK.
This fact, no doubts correlates directly to the reason why you do drive a 2001 CLK.
05-28-2007, 09:43 PM
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What ever you say sport...
Lets remember, this thread has included talking **** about somebody's wife, calling people idiots, etc...
Listen, we have a big meet coming up this Saturday morning at C&C/PAG.... You're all invited... Just come on up and say hello if you're such tough guys.
You wont.
Lets remember, this thread has included talking **** about somebody's wife, calling people idiots, etc...
Listen, we have a big meet coming up this Saturday morning at C&C/PAG.... You're all invited... Just come on up and say hello if you're such tough guys.
You wont.
i dont need to go to C+C to see exotics, i live in bev. hills, all i gotta do is go up the block to rodeo or beverly drive and kick it for an hour.
id rather spend my morning (i usually wake up in the afternoon) in the canyons
i actually drive my car the way it was meant to be driven.
05-28-2007, 09:47 PM
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05-28-2007, 09:52 PM
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Lamborghini Countach, BMW M3, ML 500 x2, S500 Lorinser
i didnt call noone an ididot or talked **** about anyones wife, i did laugh about it but so what. dont make this **** personal, youre gonna bite off a lot more than you can chew, no $ in the world will help your ***.
i dont need to go to C+C to see exotics, i live in bev. hills, all i gotta do is go up the block to rodeo or beverly drive and kick it for an hour.
id rather spend my morning (i usually wake up in the afternoon) in the canyons
i actually drive my car the way it was meant to be driven.
i dont need to go to C+C to see exotics, i live in bev. hills, all i gotta do is go up the block to rodeo or beverly drive and kick it for an hour.
id rather spend my morning (i usually wake up in the afternoon) in the canyons
i actually drive my car the way it was meant to be driven.
GOOD... youre local... BECAUSE I WOULD LOVE TO MEET YOU....
Beverly hills DOESNT impress me....
I LEFT that sh*thole a year ago.And you dont impress me either... The fact that you cant seem to keep an argument straight and then respond with "Can too" is about annoying as hell.... Dont take pride in being as annoying as a three year old....
Regardless... Come out to PAG on the 9th.... You dont need to see the exotics.... Just come tell me what a moron I am to my face... (and p.s... the lambo guys are laughing at you again... they know whats on the other side of THIS screen.... Youve ALREADY biten off more than you can chew.)
So come on.... Dont worry about me biting off more than I can chew.... Ill worry about myself... You do the same... internet tough guy.
Last edited by RomansDad; 05-28-2007 at 09:59 PM.
05-28-2007, 09:56 PM
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Sorry, it's not that simple. YOU were the one who originally cited von Saurma, and I'm afraid we won't be simply ruling out his times just because you don't like the results. And I didn't say "same day", I said "same track, same driver", so don't put words in my keyboard either.
Yes, allan, I read it. And the key word is DRIVERS, not DRIVER. See that little S on the end? That implies "PLURAL", which in English means "MORE THAN ONE."
So, unless you have any direct quote from the article which states that the best times in all of these cars were done by the same driver, it doesn't prove your point, now does it??
Nope.
No, because "mine" (gotta love this; if it disagrees with your preconceived notions, it's "mine" all of a sudden) were same driver, same track.
Let's see the article. Got a scan? Because on EVO's website, there is no listing of this test. Here's the page where they list all of their group tests:
http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/cargrouptests/archive/
So, I'd like to see it. Same with the following, also not listed on their site:
This isn't there. A search of their site for "Z06" gave the following four articles:
http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evoc...vette_z06.html
http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evoc...vette_z06.html
http://www.evo.co.uk/news/evonews/60..._the_ring.html
http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/carg...oble_m400.html
The last one is the only comparison they list for a Z06 (this is also on the previously listed page which lists all comparison tests). It is versus an Exige Cup, a GT3RS, and a Noble M400.
Only group test they list for a Gallardo is the Spyder vs. the F430 Spyder.
Which, if true (and as already reported here, R&T did not confirm this), makes it reuse of the same info, a no-no.
If you've got links or scans to these EVO articles you're citing, I'd like to read 'em. Could you please post them?
Yes, allan, I read it. And the key word is DRIVERS, not DRIVER. See that little S on the end? That implies "PLURAL", which in English means "MORE THAN ONE."
So, unless you have any direct quote from the article which states that the best times in all of these cars were done by the same driver, it doesn't prove your point, now does it??
Nope.
No, because "mine" (gotta love this; if it disagrees with your preconceived notions, it's "mine" all of a sudden) were same driver, same track.
Let's see the article. Got a scan? Because on EVO's website, there is no listing of this test. Here's the page where they list all of their group tests:
http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/cargrouptests/archive/
So, I'd like to see it. Same with the following, also not listed on their site:
This isn't there. A search of their site for "Z06" gave the following four articles:
http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evoc...vette_z06.html
http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evoc...vette_z06.html
http://www.evo.co.uk/news/evonews/60..._the_ring.html
http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/carg...oble_m400.html
The last one is the only comparison they list for a Z06 (this is also on the previously listed page which lists all comparison tests). It is versus an Exige Cup, a GT3RS, and a Noble M400.
Only group test they list for a Gallardo is the Spyder vs. the F430 Spyder.
Which, if true (and as already reported here, R&T did not confirm this), makes it reuse of the same info, a no-no.
If you've got links or scans to these EVO articles you're citing, I'd like to read 'em. Could you please post them?
Only an imbicile such as yourself would compare driving Yugos and Sherman tanks.
And yes, on your analogy, I would most certainly not feel compelled to give my analogy on something such as a tennis match not having seen BOTH players in various matchups myself. You on the otherhand would inevitably be the tennis pro from reading about.
As for the auction, it was either a year or 2 ago, when Barrett had the white CT for sale that was backed into another car prior to the sale. I dont remember which year, and again, it has no bearing on the crap you spew.
The fact remains, whether it be Lambos, Sherman tanks, or Z06's, you have nothing to draw from personal experience, excpet maybe being shown to the exit of the dealer.
You remind me of a loudmouth teacher I once had. He drove to school in a beat up old Buick, lived in a crumbling home, and his wife had left him. But he sure did know everything.
05-28-2007, 09:57 PM
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05-28-2007, 09:59 PM
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GOOD... youre local... BECAUSE I WOULD LOVE TO MEET YOU....
Beverly hills DOESNT impress me.... I LEFT that sh*thole a year ago.
And you dont impress me either... The fact that you cant seem to keep an argument straight and then respond with "Can too" is about annoying as hell.... Dont take pride in being as annoying as a three year old....
Regardless... Come out to PAG on the 9th.... You dont need to see the exotics.... Just come tell me what a moron I am to my face... (and p.s... the lambo guys are laughing at you again... they know whats on the other side of THIS screen....)
So come on.... Dont worry about me biting off more than I can chew.... Ill worry about myself... You do the same... internet tough guy.
Beverly hills DOESNT impress me....
I LEFT that sh*thole a year ago.And you dont impress me either... The fact that you cant seem to keep an argument straight and then respond with "Can too" is about annoying as hell.... Dont take pride in being as annoying as a three year old....
Regardless... Come out to PAG on the 9th.... You dont need to see the exotics.... Just come tell me what a moron I am to my face... (and p.s... the lambo guys are laughing at you again... they know whats on the other side of THIS screen....)
So come on.... Dont worry about me biting off more than I can chew.... Ill worry about myself... You do the same... internet tough guy.
