Here's an American car that'll put your Benzes to shame!
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From: Nashville
300SEL
Originally Posted by tuscanraider
Whatever makes the money. 
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From: Nashville
300SEL
Originally Posted by Improviz
They have been doing hot rod sedans for some time, but they were very limited-edition and so weren't so widely known.
The 300SEL 6.3 was a hot rod sedan Mercedes built in the 1960s. Here is a Car & Driver article from 1969:
Road & Track reported:
The 450SEL 6.9 was a popular "hot rod" that Mercedes built in the '70's; it had 276 horsepower. This is the brown Mercedes in the first chase scene from Ronin (the one where DeNiro shoots the LAWs rocket out of the sunroof). Here's a 1977 Car & Driver road test:
How does this compare with the 1977 Corvette? Well, let's look at Road & Track:
Considering that the 'vette was a four-speed manual and the Benz was a three-speed auto, *and* that the Benz weighed 4390 lbs to the 'vette's 3540 pounds, one can pretty easily see which one was packing more oomph and had better brakes!!
Motor Trend also did a nice retrospect of the hot-rodded Benzes:
The 300SEL 6.3 was a hot rod sedan Mercedes built in the 1960s. Here is a Car & Driver article from 1969:
Road & Track reported:
The 450SEL 6.9 was a popular "hot rod" that Mercedes built in the '70's; it had 276 horsepower. This is the brown Mercedes in the first chase scene from Ronin (the one where DeNiro shoots the LAWs rocket out of the sunroof). Here's a 1977 Car & Driver road test:
How does this compare with the 1977 Corvette? Well, let's look at Road & Track:
Considering that the 'vette was a four-speed manual and the Benz was a three-speed auto, *and* that the Benz weighed 4390 lbs to the 'vette's 3540 pounds, one can pretty easily see which one was packing more oomph and had better brakes!!
Motor Trend also did a nice retrospect of the hot-rodded Benzes:
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04 S55 ////AMG, 04 Yukon XL Denali, 02 BMW X5 4.4i, SL65 ////AMG
Originally Posted by schwarzwagen
too bad GM has been loosing market share year over year since the entrance of the Japanese. oops. kinda defeats your argument doesnt it. given current market trends, GM will be out of the car business soon enough. heck, they are only building cars now to pay for their legacy costs.
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CLS55 AMG
http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosins...tos-274504.htm
Domestic auto market share under 60%
By Earle Eldridge / USA TODAY
Market share for domestic automakers is below 60% this year through August, an all-time low.
General Motors, Ford Motor and Chrysler Group, which have been losing U.S. market share for 10 years, had a combined 58.8% share January through August, according to Autodata, down from 60.2% at the end of last year. Market share for Asian automakers climbed to 34.6% through August, up from 32.6% at the end of 2003.
Market share is an important gauge of a company's strength, particularly its ability to withstand industry downturns. And supporting a company's infrastructure — employees, factories and suppliers — is dependent on a healthy market share and a predictable sales volume.
GM's market share was 27.2% for the January through August period, down from 27.7% a year ago, according to Autodata. Ford's share fell to 18.4% from 19.4%. Chrysler Group picked up a bit, to 13.2% from 13%.
Chrysler spokesman Kevin McCormick credits the new Chrysler 300 sedan, a big hit, with helping boost its market share.
Paul Ballew, executive director of GM's global market and industry analysis, says GM has lost share recently because several models are at the end of their lifecycles.
"Market share is important, but it's not the only metric we track," Ballew says. "We have been able to stabilize our market share, but we also want to grow sales."
Domestic automakers also might be cutting back on sales to rental car fleets. Those sales have been used to boost market share. But they're less profitable because the automakers buy back the vehicles in four to 12 months and often are forced to resell them at a loss.
Ford sales analyst George Pipas says the automaker is reducing sales to daily rental fleets, even if it erodes share. "Market share is important to us, but our focus is on retail market share and building our business profitably."
The drop in market share comes as import automakers have encroached on truck segments Detroit has dominated: pickups, sport-utility vehicles and minivans.
Japanese and European automakers began adding truck models in the late 1980s and early '90s. Since 1995, as their lineups have grown, Detroit's market share has dropped steadily from the 70% range.
Jeff Schuster, executive director of global forecasting for J.D. Power and Associates, expects Detroit's market share to settle at about 56% by 2010, because the imports will have completed their march into new segments.
He also expects the size of the new car market to grow to about 17.7 million annual sales by 2011, up from 16.6 million predicted for this year. That will allow automakers to increase sales volume despite a smaller market share.
Last edited by Improviz; Feb 6, 2005 at 04:34 PM.
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From: Nashville
300SEL
Originally Posted by BrabusS55AMG
GM is nowhere NEAR going out of business, they just signed a research contract with Daimler-Chrysler as well. Jap cars are so ****ty, I'll never get one and never want one. Hell- Lexus uses "simulated" wood and low grade leather. Some guy down my street has an LS430 and a RX300, they may look decent- but the material quality is what will keep the Japs from building cars I consider to be "luxury."
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CLS55 AMG
So, where did GM go when it wanted to benchmark and test its new Cadillac sedans?
Why, to Germany, of course:
So how will the STS-V fare against the competition? For answers, we sought out John Heinricy, GM's director of high-performance vehicle operations, who is in charge of all V-Series development.
"Naturally, there will be a lot of similarities between the STS-V and the last-generation BMW M5. They really set the mark for the whole market segment," Heinricy said. "Where we look to differ is that we are working hard to make the car more comfortable as a daily driver than the M or the AMG. The blend between track and street is to have a more comfortable balance, that performance/luxury feel. But the competence has to be there when you drive it fast or take it to a track. I'm working to equal or better the competition both on track and on the road."
According to Heinricy, the STS-V "has better behavior than the [previous] BMW M5. It has a little better body control and is more precise in the steering and brakes."
Running with BMW's M cars is just one element in Cadillac's overall strategy. The V-Series, combined with Cadillac's efforts in motorsports where it competes with a factory effort in the Speed Channel World Challenge series, is part of the division's holistic approach in reaching the enthusiast market.
Cadillac's plans are wide-ranging and ambitious, but they need to be able to go toe-to-toe with BMW and Mercedes-Benz on a global scale.
They also went to Germany's Nürburgring for testing, like the Germans have been doing now for years:
The importance of Germany's Nürburgring in Cadillac's renaissance cannot be overstated. It is the one place where all the major manufacturers test, where the stopwatch separates the poseurs from the real deal.
Jim Taylor, who was the vehicle line executive involved in the Sigma platform before becoming Cadillac's current general manager, used his experience and connections at Opel to test the original CTS at the Ring. To him, testing at the track is the critical element that differentiates the merely good from the truly great.
"You look at the hardware kings, which are the Germans. How do they get there differently?" Taylor says. "They may have some actual parts that are different, but you can buy that stuff. The real difference lies in the black magic in developing a car, finalizing its handling in a truly demanding test environment." The 14-plus miles and more than 175 turns of the Nürburgring is that environment.
So how will the STS-V fare against the competition? For answers, we sought out John Heinricy, GM's director of high-performance vehicle operations, who is in charge of all V-Series development.
"Naturally, there will be a lot of similarities between the STS-V and the last-generation BMW M5. They really set the mark for the whole market segment," Heinricy said. "Where we look to differ is that we are working hard to make the car more comfortable as a daily driver than the M or the AMG. The blend between track and street is to have a more comfortable balance, that performance/luxury feel. But the competence has to be there when you drive it fast or take it to a track. I'm working to equal or better the competition both on track and on the road."
According to Heinricy, the STS-V "has better behavior than the [previous] BMW M5. It has a little better body control and is more precise in the steering and brakes."
Running with BMW's M cars is just one element in Cadillac's overall strategy. The V-Series, combined with Cadillac's efforts in motorsports where it competes with a factory effort in the Speed Channel World Challenge series, is part of the division's holistic approach in reaching the enthusiast market.
Cadillac's plans are wide-ranging and ambitious, but they need to be able to go toe-to-toe with BMW and Mercedes-Benz on a global scale.
They also went to Germany's Nürburgring for testing, like the Germans have been doing now for years:
The importance of Germany's Nürburgring in Cadillac's renaissance cannot be overstated. It is the one place where all the major manufacturers test, where the stopwatch separates the poseurs from the real deal.
Jim Taylor, who was the vehicle line executive involved in the Sigma platform before becoming Cadillac's current general manager, used his experience and connections at Opel to test the original CTS at the Ring. To him, testing at the track is the critical element that differentiates the merely good from the truly great.
"You look at the hardware kings, which are the Germans. How do they get there differently?" Taylor says. "They may have some actual parts that are different, but you can buy that stuff. The real difference lies in the black magic in developing a car, finalizing its handling in a truly demanding test environment." The 14-plus miles and more than 175 turns of the Nürburgring is that environment.
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From: Santa Clarita/Northridge CA
E350
Originally Posted by BrabusS55AMG
GM is nowhere NEAR going out of business, they just signed a research contract with Daimler-Chrysler as well. Jap cars are so ****ty, I'll never get one and never want one. Hell- Lexus uses "simulated" wood and low grade leather. Some guy down my street has an LS430 and a RX300, they may look decent- but the material quality is what will keep the Japs from building cars I consider to be "luxury."
Yes i guess thats why Consumers Guide doesnt even list the LS430 as the best buy.
http://auto.consumerguide.com/auto/n...ivisionid/1612
http://auto.consumerguide.com/auto/n...ivisionid/1593
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2005/lexu...ader..2.Lexus*
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2005/cadi...r..2.Cadillac*
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2005/cadi...r..2.Cadillac*
Now lets compare the interiors shall we?
This is the 2005 STS competes with the EClass, 5 Series, LS430, and the AUDI A6.
Compare that to a 2005 Mercedes C-Class
[/IMG]http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//pictures/VEHICLE/2005/Mercedes-Benz/100402030/030459-E.jpg[IMG]
Let alone to an E-Class.
[/IMG]http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//pictures/VEHICLE/2003/Mercedes-Benz/100173989/025945-E.jpg[IMG]
Now lets compare a Cadillac XLR to a SL class, i wont even go by performance because thats not even fair for the XLR, i shall just got by interior.
[/IMG]http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//pictures/VEHICLE/2003/Mercedes-Benz/100075461/025970-E.jpg[IMG]
XLR now.
[/IMG]http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//pictures/VEHICLE/2004/Cadillac/100269462/022780-E.jpg[IMG]
I think i have proved my point. Note i only used Cadillac because that is suppose to be the supreme american luxury car right now. You cannot tell me that those interiors are luxurious. I will do one more comparison.
http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/1...20022116-E.jpg
http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/1...20022623-E.jpg
http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/1...20023157-E.jpg
http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/1...8/027035-E.jpg
http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/1...9/031986-E.jpg
Im tired so im goiing to bed.
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BrabusS55, why don't you come over to my house. You can compare the leather of a SL65 versus an eleven year old LS400.
Mind you, my leather might be ripped in a few places, and my wood might be scratched, but the leather is of a much better feel then the Mercedes' and the wood feels and looks like real wood.
No use in throwing the LS430 versus Mercedes 'super beast'. If it's anything, Cadillac had the luxury car down but lost it to Lexus.
I need to wash the Lexus soon, but I'll get pics when I have time.
Mind you, my leather might be ripped in a few places, and my wood might be scratched, but the leather is of a much better feel then the Mercedes' and the wood feels and looks like real wood.
No use in throwing the LS430 versus Mercedes 'super beast'. If it's anything, Cadillac had the luxury car down but lost it to Lexus.
I need to wash the Lexus soon, but I'll get pics when I have time.
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Bantha
Originally Posted by schwarzwagen
given current market trends, GM will be out of the car business soon enough.
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From: Nashville
300SEL
Originally Posted by tuscanraider
Please don't advise anyone on financial matters. You appear to be the biggest dunce on the forums. GM out of business? Yep, I guess GE is on the way out too.
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From: Oxford, Pa
03 CLK55
In all fairness to Lexus though...
Originally Posted by ricky.agrawal
BrabusS55, why don't you come over to my house. You can compare the leather of a SL65 versus an eleven year old LS400.
Mind you, my leather might be ripped in a few places, and my wood might be scratched, but the leather is of a much better feel then the Mercedes' and the wood feels and looks like real wood.
No use in throwing the LS430 versus Mercedes 'super beast'. If it's anything, Cadillac had the luxury car down but lost it to Lexus.
I need to wash the Lexus soon, but I'll get pics when I have time.
Mind you, my leather might be ripped in a few places, and my wood might be scratched, but the leather is of a much better feel then the Mercedes' and the wood feels and looks like real wood.
No use in throwing the LS430 versus Mercedes 'super beast'. If it's anything, Cadillac had the luxury car down but lost it to Lexus.
I need to wash the Lexus soon, but I'll get pics when I have time.
Even if it's not the designio interior, there's still a big price difference between any AMG SL (Be it a 55 or a 65) and the average Lexus...
I know that I would much rather have Lexus's stellar reliabilty than Mercedes Benz's! Lexus consistently places at the top spot in all of the various automotive quality/reliabiilty surveys, whereas MB has nose dived way down, as low as 15th place...
I still prefer Mercedes, but Lexus have every right to be proud of their accomplishments, and I'd bet that if Toyota/Lexus made a car that is priced in the 6 figure range, it would in all likely-hood be a much better car!
Best regards,
Matt
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From: Nashville
300SEL
Originally Posted by tuscanraider
Please don't advise anyone on financial matters. You appear to be the biggest dunce on the forums. GM out of business? Yep, I guess GE is on the way out too.
more people that feel the same way i do. forum members of mercedesshop are a cut above mbworld, so the fact that agree with me... indicates that you are in the minority.
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From: Puerto Rico
G63, SLS Black Series, C63 Blackseries
Originally Posted by bobs
www.fantasycars.com/sedans/html/ctsv.html
The new Cadillac CTS-V. 0-60 in 4.7, 1/4 mile in 13.1...$48,000
The new Cadillac CTS-V. 0-60 in 4.7, 1/4 mile in 13.1...$48,000
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CLS55 AMG
I was reading a recent issue of Car & Driver last night, and read their review of the new Mustang, which jogged my memory. One might recall that the previous Mustang, and the one before that, were produced using the Fox chassis, which was developed in 1978.
Think about that for a second. They used the same chassis for almost 30 years!
And Chevrolet did this as well: the second-generation Corvettes, produced from 1963-1967, used a chassis that was nowhere near state-of-the-art, even at that time...when the time came for a new model, what did Chevy do? Why, bolt a new body on the chassis...and produce it for another 16 years! Not as bad as the 'stang, but bad...when they phased it out for the C4, *pickup* trucks' chassis were modern marvels by comparison.
THIS is why they don't compete: not because there aren't skilled engineers and designers capable of competing, but simply, because the management are idiots risen from the ranks of bean counters, not enthusiasts. That's the sad thing...and until they do, I'm staying put. There are some signs of life, though, so I'll subscribe to the "never say never" adage, but they've still got some work to do.
Think about that for a second. They used the same chassis for almost 30 years!
And Chevrolet did this as well: the second-generation Corvettes, produced from 1963-1967, used a chassis that was nowhere near state-of-the-art, even at that time...when the time came for a new model, what did Chevy do? Why, bolt a new body on the chassis...and produce it for another 16 years! Not as bad as the 'stang, but bad...when they phased it out for the C4, *pickup* trucks' chassis were modern marvels by comparison.
THIS is why they don't compete: not because there aren't skilled engineers and designers capable of competing, but simply, because the management are idiots risen from the ranks of bean counters, not enthusiasts. That's the sad thing...and until they do, I'm staying put. There are some signs of life, though, so I'll subscribe to the "never say never" adage, but they've still got some work to do.
