Here's an American car that'll put your Benzes to shame!
02-10-2009, 12:36 PM
#351
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CLS55 AMG
Well, it clearly has your inferiority complex showing through in spades, which definitely means something. If people driving a Benz rubs people like you the wrong way, that alone should be sufficient for a bump in sales figures.
02-10-2009, 12:42 PM
#352
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Excuse me? I don't recall arguing that they don't, so please don't put words in my typewriter. In fact, I have raised Mercedes' reliability issues before, repeatedly, in these forums. But that hardly disproves that Cadillac's is worse.
Fine, but irrelavent to the point being made. Again: I was responding to a ridiculous claim by a specific troll, namely that Benz engineers suck, and Cadillac's are better. The quality of Benz cars across the model line has made leaps and bounds of improvement over the last few years, while Cadillac's has not (although other GM products have, but we are talking about Caddy specifically here).
I agree that the CTS interior is far better (imo) than the new C Class, but this has nothing to do with my point, namely reliability. Please stop debating me about points I haven't raised.
The CTS is a fantastic car for the money, and the proof is in the sales figures: I've seen more Caddies on the road the last few years than ever...but they need keep these customers, and that's where reliability, which leads to higher resale, which along with the lower hassle of fewer repairs, is what keeps customers loyal and returning. Hopefully, they (and others) have gotten the message and are addressing this, but come on: they've had 20-30 years now to address these issues while Toyota et al were whittling away at their market share. Good QC isn't that difficult; you've just got to commit, and fully commit.
GM has definitely (albeit very possibly too late, but hopefully not) finally come to the brilliant conclusion that interiors and exteriors matter, and are producing some fantastic cars (CTS being one, except unfortunately for the repair rate), but again, my point of contention with the star wars kid is his fanciful claim about engineering. Given a few years, Caddy may get there in terms of quality, and when they do I'll definitely be giving them a serious look (as mentioned, I did test drive a CTS, and was quite impressed, before getting the CLS) but they ain't there yet.
Fine, but irrelavent to the point being made. Again: I was responding to a ridiculous claim by a specific troll, namely that Benz engineers suck, and Cadillac's are better. The quality of Benz cars across the model line has made leaps and bounds of improvement over the last few years, while Cadillac's has not (although other GM products have, but we are talking about Caddy specifically here).
I agree that the CTS interior is far better (imo) than the new C Class, but this has nothing to do with my point, namely reliability. Please stop debating me about points I haven't raised.
The CTS is a fantastic car for the money, and the proof is in the sales figures: I've seen more Caddies on the road the last few years than ever...but they need keep these customers, and that's where reliability, which leads to higher resale, which along with the lower hassle of fewer repairs, is what keeps customers loyal and returning. Hopefully, they (and others) have gotten the message and are addressing this, but come on: they've had 20-30 years now to address these issues while Toyota et al were whittling away at their market share. Good QC isn't that difficult; you've just got to commit, and fully commit.
GM has definitely (albeit very possibly too late, but hopefully not) finally come to the brilliant conclusion that interiors and exteriors matter, and are producing some fantastic cars (CTS being one, except unfortunately for the repair rate), but again, my point of contention with the star wars kid is his fanciful claim about engineering. Given a few years, Caddy may get there in terms of quality, and when they do I'll definitely be giving them a serious look (as mentioned, I did test drive a CTS, and was quite impressed, before getting the CLS) but they ain't there yet.
02-10-2009, 01:38 PM
#353
Whats also really funny is that you feel the need to put in your signature your previous car!!! LOL which is sold....who do you think cares what car you previously had???
02-10-2009, 02:01 PM
#354
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GM's stock is at $3.40 & the entire company's market cap is $2B (there are individuals that could buy GM with CASH - not that anyone would as the firm is a mismanaged mess). Sooo, maybe they will still be in business next year when you buy (or at least the plant that builds the Caddys has not been closed for asset dispositioning for creditors).
If GM were a hospital patient; it would be someone inflicted with terminal pancreatic cancer being treated by chiropractors at a hospital funded by neighborhood beggers. It ain't lookin' good for GM right now...and good luck with Warranty service if you do get the car & the company has been sold off and/or liquidated for creditors.
-Matt
Someone like Warren Buffet should buy GM and then use his money managing genious to try and fix them up, because Lord knows that what they're doing isn't working! GM put all of their eggs into the SUV basket and is paying the price for it now! That and the fact that the execs are so Greedy with their Golden parachutes and bonuses. It shows that they definitely don't have the companies interest at heart! I'd hate have executives like that working for me or running my company (if I had a company
)! Bob Nardelli at least said that he'd take a dollar salary for a year to help Chrysler out, whereas none of the other execs were willing to do that! It doesn't hurt that he had just received a $20 million dolar retirement package from Home Depot! He could afford a dollar salary for a year! Poor Guy! 
Hopefully, the New Flying Vee (2009 CTS-V) and the New Camaro can help generate some sales for them..........We'll see!
02-10-2009, 02:40 PM
#355
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What model Benz did you have, Tuscan?
02-10-2009, 03:32 PM
#356
Like i said i chose that over the 3-series, just because there were/are way too many around....and i won't drive a jap car, so the IS and G were out.....I don't even know what I'd consider if I was contemplating going back to MB...i think the w204's are hideous....maybe the last model year w203 or the new GLK...
02-10-2009, 04:10 PM
#357
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I had and '03 W203 SS...i liked the supercharged 4, but the reliability was in the toilet, like the rest of the car overall. Maybe because it was a 1st model year? Like i said i chose that over the 3-series, just because there were/are way too many around....and i won't drive a jap car, so the IS and G were out.....I don't even know what I'd consider if I was contemplating going back to MB...i think the w204's are hideous....maybe the last model year w203 or the new GLK...
Like i said i chose that over the 3-series, just because there were/are way too many around....and i won't drive a jap car, so the IS and G were out.....I don't even know what I'd consider if I was contemplating going back to MB...i think the w204's are hideous....maybe the last model year w203 or the new GLK...
02-10-2009, 04:26 PM
#358
That's cuz W203+ C Classes especially after the 05 redisign are marketed for a wider population with a lower price budget. To sell the C Class to more people Mercedes had to reduce the production costs, therefore you see the cheaper looking interior quality than say a w201 or w202 for their time. I am not a fan of C Class either unless it's an AMG. But judging Mercedes based on one of its lesser models is a little unfair, don't you think?
And for the most part AMG's are AMG's due to their engine...the other components to a lesser degree...but the majority of the car is just a C class. If my sunroof, windshield wiper motor, radio, heated seats took a dump in a regular w203, they have an equal chance of failing in the AMG because they are the same right?
02-11-2009, 12:10 AM
#359
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CLS55 AMG
What is? A Cadillac? A Toyota? A Huffy?
Further, why do you consider your subjective judgments to be anything other than subjective judgements? I think it's the pinnacle of folly for you to issue foolish blanket statements, none of which are empirical, all of which are subjective, and arrogantly act as though they constitute some sort of intelligent argument.
Oh, and just in case this is on the level, which one did you (supposedly) own?
And for you, who repeatedly have utilized the most infantile sig photos in the forum, to criticize anyone about their sig is akin to mike tyson giving dating advice.For someone who supposedly is anti-image, you sure do manage to spend a lot of time fretting about the image projected by this brand, and its owners.
Last edited by Improviz; 02-11-2009 at 12:12 AM.
02-11-2009, 12:32 AM
#360
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CLS55 AMG
More rubbish. Infinitely better? According to whom? You? Again, more subjective nonsense.
And for the most part AMG's are AMG's due to their engine...the other components to a lesser degree...but the majority of the car is just a C class. If my sunroof, windshield wiper motor, radio, heated seats took a dump in a regular w203, they have an equal chance of failing in the AMG because they are the same right?
Which you don't have, but that doesn't stop you from acting as though your experience is The Gold Standard.
I mean, I have seen the most ridiculous statements coming from you, such as your Rustang, which has a chassis dating back to the 1978 Ford Fairmont, was a better-engineered piece than a C Class.
I think that pretty much sums up your engineering expertise.
02-11-2009, 12:53 AM
#361
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02-11-2009, 12:56 AM
#362
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He's a tool and a troll, but for some reason the mods let him stay around. I wasn't exaggerating when I wrote that all he "contributes" here is juvenile garbage and flamebait; check his posts. I'm guessing mid teens at best. I mean, what adult would take the name of a Star Wars character as a posting handle?
If he owns a Caddy, rest assured it's a model.
I wasn't exaggerating when I wrote that all he "contributes" here is juvenile garbage and flamebait; check his posts. I'm guessing mid teens at best. I mean, what adult would take the name of a Star Wars character as a posting handle?If he owns a Caddy, rest assured it's a model.
So he doesn't like MB. No need to call people names. Just put him on ignore and let your blood pressure simmer down.
02-11-2009, 01:03 AM
#364
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02-11-2009, 01:03 AM
#365
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CLS55 AMG
02-11-2009, 01:08 AM
#366
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Just saying....the ignore feature will save you aggravation in the future. You are only making yourself look bad by trying to sink to a lower level and get into a flame war on the internet. Is it really worth it? I personally like TR. I find his comments funny. When I do come across people I dislike I try to ignore them....if that doesn't work then I will bust as many stones as possible.
02-11-2009, 01:36 AM
#367
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Just saying....the ignore feature will save you aggravation in the future. You are only making yourself look bad by trying to sink to a lower level and get into a flame war on the internet. Is it really worth it? I personally like TR. I find his comments funny. When I do come across people I dislike I try to ignore them....if that doesn't work then I will bust as many stones as possible.
02-11-2009, 08:13 AM
#369
Yeah, I'll bet you did.
Why did you buy one, then? I sense more than a bit of projection going on here.
What is? A Cadillac? A Toyota? A Huffy?
Further, why do you consider your subjective judgments to be anything other than subjective judgements? I think it's the pinnacle of folly for you to issue foolish blanket statements, none of which are empirical, all of which are subjective, and arrogantly act as though they constitute some sort of intelligent argument.
So why didn't you buy a Corolla?
Oh, and just in case this is on the level, which one did you (supposedly) own?
Who cares if anyone cares? And for you, who repeatedly have utilized the most infantile sig photos in the forum, to criticize anyone about their sig is akin to mike tyson giving dating advice.
For someone who supposedly is anti-image, you sure do manage to spend a lot of time fretting about the image projected by this brand, and its owners.
Why did you buy one, then? I sense more than a bit of projection going on here.
What is? A Cadillac? A Toyota? A Huffy?
Further, why do you consider your subjective judgments to be anything other than subjective judgements? I think it's the pinnacle of folly for you to issue foolish blanket statements, none of which are empirical, all of which are subjective, and arrogantly act as though they constitute some sort of intelligent argument.
So why didn't you buy a Corolla?
Oh, and just in case this is on the level, which one did you (supposedly) own?
Who cares if anyone cares?
And for you, who repeatedly have utilized the most infantile sig photos in the forum, to criticize anyone about their sig is akin to mike tyson giving dating advice.For someone who supposedly is anti-image, you sure do manage to spend a lot of time fretting about the image projected by this brand, and its owners.
02-11-2009, 08:16 AM
#370
02-11-2009, 10:54 AM
#371
MBWorld Fanatic!
Listen, and understand. The Improviz is out there. It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead.
02-11-2009, 10:56 AM
#372
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CLS55 AMG
As to post 356 answering the questions; it really doesn't...you say that you want reliability, yet you will not, for some reason, drive a Japanese car.
But Japanese are the most reliable. So why don't you want one if reliability is your paramount concern?
And this still doesn't answer why you felt the need to buy a prestige brand (deciding between a 3-Series and C Class definitely shows this to be the prime motivator for such a decision, as there are far more practical American cars available for far less money), yet constantly assail Benz owners in these forums (and for those that don't think he does, go to "search this forum", "advanced search", and search for posts under his user name; he's been running an anti-Benz and anti-Benz owner campaign in this forum for years) for actually owning and driving them.
To me, this smacks of extreme hypocrisy, not to mention a clear case of resentment and hostility.
So I will again pose some questions:
1) you costantly attack Benz owners for their perceived "superiority", yet you yourself owned an entry-level C Class. Why did you limit your choice to a BMW or a Mercedes when you can get much more practical, non-Japanese cars for the money?
2) why won't you buy Japanese? Clearly it is not due to quality concerns, so why is it won't drive one ? This seems particularly odd in light of to your overriding concerns about reliability, given that Japanese cars are typically the most reliable brands in survey after survey...could PRESTIGE be an issie? Enquiring minds want to know!
3) you claim that Benzes "aren't special". So why did you buy one, given that you seem to think it has no differentiation from a garden-variety Ford Focus? Why didn't you buy a Ford Focus given that it is just as special as a C Class? Why didn't you buy an Audi or BMW given that, as you put it, their 'fit and finish are infinitely better than Benz"? Don't you consider fit and finish when you purchase cars, or look at competitors to compare?
Or is it you're just spewing out uninformed rubbish to try and annoy people?
To wit, my last question:
4) can you quantify how Audi or BMW have "superior engineering" to Mercedes?
02-11-2009, 11:05 AM
#373
You've got roughly as many posts as I do here, so it would appear that this is a dodge and quite dishonest.
As to post 356 answering the questions; it really doesn't...you say that you want reliability, yet you will not, for some reason, drive a Japanese car.
But Japanese are the most reliable. So why don't you want one if reliability is your paramount concern?
never said reliability was paramount...did I? i just said MB doesn't have it.
And this still doesn't answer why you felt the need to buy a prestige brand (deciding between a 3-Series and C Class definitely shows this to be the prime motivator for such a decision, as there are far more practical American cars available for far less money), yet constantly assail Benz owners in these forums (and for those that don't think he does, go to "search this forum", "advanced search", and search for posts under his user name; he's been running an anti-Benz and anti-Benz owner campaign in this forum for years) for actually owning and driving them.
To me, this smacks of extreme hypocrisy, not to mention a clear case of resentment and hostility.
So I will again pose some questions:
1) you costantly attack Benz owners for their perceived "superiority", yet you yourself owned an entry-level C Class. Why did you limit your choice to a BMW or a Mercedes when you can get much more practical, non-Japanese cars for the money?
I try not to support the japs. Cad didn't have the CTS sport package when i bought.
2) why won't you buy Japanese? Clearly it is not due to quality concerns, so why is it won't drive one ? This seems particularly odd in light of to your overriding concerns about reliability, given that Japanese cars are typically the most reliable brands in survey after survey...could PRESTIGE be an issie? Enquiring minds want to know!
see above
3) you claim that Benzes "aren't special". So why did you buy one, given that you seem to think it has no differentiation from a garden-variety Ford Focus? Why didn't you buy a Ford Focus given that it is just as special as a C Class? Why didn't you buy an Audi or BMW given that, as you put it, their 'fit and finish are infinitely better than Benz"? Don't you consider fit and finish when you purchase cars, or look at competitors to compare?
It's common knowledge in the industry in this segment, Audi is tops on cabin design and finish. Go sit in one, you'll be enlightened. Do we really need to re-hash the handling and performance of the 3-series. C'mon its better than MB. Drive one.
Or is it you're just spewing out uninformed rubbish to try and annoy people?
i got the C because there are entirely too many 3 series around. i think thats the 3rd time i posted that....capice? RIF dude...Reading is Fundamental.
To wit, my last question:
4) can you quantify how Audi or BMW have "superior engineering" to Mercedes?
As to post 356 answering the questions; it really doesn't...you say that you want reliability, yet you will not, for some reason, drive a Japanese car.
But Japanese are the most reliable. So why don't you want one if reliability is your paramount concern?
never said reliability was paramount...did I? i just said MB doesn't have it.
And this still doesn't answer why you felt the need to buy a prestige brand (deciding between a 3-Series and C Class definitely shows this to be the prime motivator for such a decision, as there are far more practical American cars available for far less money), yet constantly assail Benz owners in these forums (and for those that don't think he does, go to "search this forum", "advanced search", and search for posts under his user name; he's been running an anti-Benz and anti-Benz owner campaign in this forum for years) for actually owning and driving them.
To me, this smacks of extreme hypocrisy, not to mention a clear case of resentment and hostility.
So I will again pose some questions:
1) you costantly attack Benz owners for their perceived "superiority", yet you yourself owned an entry-level C Class. Why did you limit your choice to a BMW or a Mercedes when you can get much more practical, non-Japanese cars for the money?
I try not to support the japs. Cad didn't have the CTS sport package when i bought.
2) why won't you buy Japanese? Clearly it is not due to quality concerns, so why is it won't drive one ? This seems particularly odd in light of to your overriding concerns about reliability, given that Japanese cars are typically the most reliable brands in survey after survey...could PRESTIGE be an issie? Enquiring minds want to know!
see above
3) you claim that Benzes "aren't special". So why did you buy one, given that you seem to think it has no differentiation from a garden-variety Ford Focus? Why didn't you buy a Ford Focus given that it is just as special as a C Class? Why didn't you buy an Audi or BMW given that, as you put it, their 'fit and finish are infinitely better than Benz"? Don't you consider fit and finish when you purchase cars, or look at competitors to compare?
It's common knowledge in the industry in this segment, Audi is tops on cabin design and finish. Go sit in one, you'll be enlightened. Do we really need to re-hash the handling and performance of the 3-series. C'mon its better than MB. Drive one.
Or is it you're just spewing out uninformed rubbish to try and annoy people?
i got the C because there are entirely too many 3 series around. i think thats the 3rd time i posted that....capice? RIF dude...Reading is Fundamental.
To wit, my last question:
4) can you quantify how Audi or BMW have "superior engineering" to Mercedes?
ok tool...see some answers above.
02-11-2009, 01:50 PM
#374
MBWorld Fanatic!
If I ever need a lawyer, first thing I will do is pm Improviz.
02-11-2009, 01:52 PM
#375
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2005 Porsche Cayenne Turbo
True...and it's not as if Cadillac is one of the most stellar brands wrt reliability: according to the latest Consumer Reports data, the brand is ranked 31st out of 34, trailed only by Chrysler, Saturn, and Land Rover.
In the "Upscale Cars" category, the next-to-last and last-place finish honors went to the CTS (awd and rwd respectively), at 20% and 30% below average...and in the "Luxury Cars" category, the STS comes in dead last, with reliability more than 80% below average. And of course, the Escalade and SRX models are right there in the netherlands in their respective categories.
In the "Upscale Cars" category, the next-to-last and last-place finish honors went to the CTS (awd and rwd respectively), at 20% and 30% below average...and in the "Luxury Cars" category, the STS comes in dead last, with reliability more than 80% below average. And of course, the Escalade and SRX models are right there in the netherlands in their respective categories.
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com...ndablecar.aspx
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com...-Midsize-Cars/
I sat in a new CTS-V a few weeks ago and the interior was definitely more luxurious than the C63 I test drove last month. I'm not brand-loyal so having owned a previous generation CTS-V is not why I am stating this. Go sit in one yourself and you'll be impressed (unless you have already made up your mind of what you think without even seeing one).
Last edited by SeattleBum; 02-11-2009 at 02:08 PM.
