Lexani

Thanks for the insult. And yes, I'll stay safe, likewise, its busy these holiday seasons. Yes, im sure he wasn't racing, he was just drowning my 600s engine with his high revvs as he took of the line. I completly agree.

Lexani

I object, however I'll leave it at a agree to disagree per say.

Lexani

Thank you for this breif lucture, I really appreciated it. I mean it. I now know a thing or two about the models, least the names. You have my gratitude.

Lexani

Right you maybe, make of it what you will.

FThornton666

Must of been a tiptronic, because if it was a manual and he launched the car, you would of just seen him leaving you and his spoiler raising up as he passed 70.

Vic55

If the Porsche in question that you raced had the numerals 911 on it then most likely it was not a Turbo. Its my understanding that Turbo's only say Turbo on them unless they were rebadged (993 to the present). I know in your post you said the other driver stated "Turbo".

The car you may have raced- if he was lying- could have been a 40th Anniversaly 996 Carrera which came out in 2004 with the special 911 badging in the rear. It got the Turbo front fascia and GT3 side panels I believe. But it didnt get the Turbo engine or AWD.

I may not be 100% correct but I think I read this in one of the car mags recently.

Lexani

You would so swear... ok... I lied, I lost. Happy now? Stop trying to tell me he could have beaten me, when I saw him in my rear view- twice at that. My god, its like you were there, not me.

Lexani

"If the Porsche in question that you raced had the numerals 911 on it then most likely it was not a Turbo. Its my understanding that Turbo's only say Turbo on them unless they were rebadged (993 to the present). I know in your post you said the other driver stated "Turbo"."

Im so confused. Why can't Porsche just have different classes?

"The car you may have raced- if he was lying- could have been a 40th Anniversaly 996 Carrera which came out in 2004 with the special 911 badging in the rear. It got the Turbo front fascia and GT3 side panels I believe. But it didnt get the Turbo engine or AWD."

Well, after we finished racing he entered a freeway. On his rear he had dual mufflers... more like quad, but there were two on one side. Do you understand, its kind of hard to say.

"I may not be 100% correct but I think I read this in one of the car mags recently."

If you did, it wasn't my story, maybe the Porsche gentlemen sent it in. What magazine, if I may ask?

Oh, and nice Benz! I love the way it sits, very nice!

Improviz

Here is his account of a stock E55 running a Turbo Porsche on the Autobahn:

The thing you guys aren't taking into account is that high-powered AWD cars pick up about 1/2 second or more just by virtue of their super-low 60' times; each 0.1 a car picks up in 60' time translates to 0.2 in the 1/4. But where they lose out is in rolling-start races, where they can't use the high-rpm slingshot-style launches which allow them to get such low 1/4 times.

I love Car & Driver, because they actually illustrate this quite nicely by providing not only 0-60 tests but also rolling-start 5-60 tests. You will invariably see in these tests that the AWD cars lose a *lot* more time between 0-60 and 5-60 times than their RWD counterparts, because the RWD cars can't be launched as agressively.

Example: May 2003 issue tested C32/S4 and E55/RS6. Check this out:

Car 0-60/5-60/difference
C32: 5.2/5.8/0.6
S4: 5.0/5.9/0.9

E55: 4.3/4.7/0.4
RS6: 4.4/5.5/1.1

Also see the Porsche Turbo test from 9/04:
0-60: 3.8
5-60: 5.0

Note that the E55 tested 0.3 faster to 60 in the rolling-start race--and according to Car & Driver, this was the fastest Turbo they'd ever tested.

This illustrates how the Benzes are the opposite of the AWD cars: ultra-high torque and skinny tires means that they *cannot* get their full potential in a 0-xxx race, but once they're hooked up, they are faster than their numbers would have one think.

So, if the Porsche driver in question wasn't taking full advantage of the AWD launch (which I doubt very seriously he *could* if he was new to the car) this account is quite plausible, per the road test results and Gustav's account.

Vic55

I meant I read about the 40th anniversary in the magazine. In the writeup they said that they did retro badging and put the numerals on the car. Normally Carreras and Turbos have either "Carrera" or "Turbo" on the badging.

Predator

give lexani a break, he beat that 911 turbo. and i do believe he owns all those cars. why do people always gotta flame here?
Also Lexani is correct, the Sl600 is faster than the Sl65 due to SL65s traction problem handling all that torque.
And whoever made that rediculous comment about a SL55 being faster than a SL600 is nuts. freakin SL600 has a lot more torque than SL55.

FThornton666

I never said you lied, just saying that those 911s are ****ers. Especially the GT models.

Iron Sheik

[QUOTE=Predator]
Also Lexani is correct, the Sl600 is faster than the Sl65 due to SL65s traction problem handling all that torque.
[QUOTE]

SL 600 is not faster than an SL65, even if the 65 has traction problem from the start. It will be a lil even from the start, maybe 600 lil bit quicker, but once the 65 catch traction, good-bye 600. Dont get me wrong, the 600 is a freaking BEAST! Its just that the 65 is a bigger beast!!
Quick and fast are two different things.
The trap speed at the end of the 1/4 mile is a good indication of how fast the car is going.
A Renntech 600 will prolly trap anywhere from 120-122?
A normal 65 will trap about 125-126, giving the fact that it gets good traction.
Just look at Treynor's 600 and 65 in the 1/4 mile. I know the 600 is an S-class, but just add another mile or two to the trap speed and its still no where near the 125+ mph the 65 traps on street tires.
Sorry, this is not meant to flame, but I'm just stating facts and figures here.
Enjoy the ride and drive safely.

Iron Sheik

Predator

[QUOTE=Iron Sheik][QUOTE=Predator]
Also Lexani is correct, the Sl600 is faster than the Sl65 due to SL65s traction problem handling all that torque.
In 0-60 and 1/4 mile the sl600 will win. I agree on a very long stretch the sl65 will win.

Iron Sheik

Ook ok
if you are talking about a RENNTECH SL 600, then yes, it might be able to beat the 65, it all depends on who gets better traction off the start. But after 1/4 mile, the 65 will reel in the 600. Thats what a higher trap speed does.
On the other hand, if it is a normal 600 going against a normal 65, there is NOT A CHANCE in hell it will beat it, of course, given the fact that both drivers are equally talented at launching the cars well.
Maybe Treynor can give us some input here. He knows better cuz he has both cars.
I'm just stating facts and figures from what people have posted on the site, thats all.

Iron Sheik

Predator

read car and driver new issue, it says a normal sl600 beats the sl65 in 0-60- and 1/4mile.

Improviz

When that SL600 article came out, several alert posters noticed that the article mentioned a feature that stock SL600s do not have, but Renntech (I think, may have been a different tuner) modded ones do.

Iow, the only way the vehicle could have this particular function was if it had the aftermarket chip.

It's been awhile, but check out the archives on the AMG SL forum...

Erik

Hi
Lex

Vic55 is correct. The normal Porsche cars does haved 911 on the trunk. The Turbo, GT2 and GT3 do not.

Here is the TURBO rear..


This is the 996 40 years edition. Maybe difficult to read but it reads 911 on the trunk.



This is the GT3RS


This is the GT2

This one you should not give a +1 sec head start...... :p

and this one you should forgett even to try :p

The mighty Carrera GT


And as Improwiz says, the E55, SL55 and the SL600 is capable of keeping up with the 996 TURBO in speed lower than 125 mph. On tests made of the SL55 is actually indicates the SL55 to be almost a 1 faster than the Turbo. The same SL also tested faster than both the Lambo Murc and the GT2 from 125 to 186 mph
That started a huge discussion both on the internett and also among the testers driving the car. The spesific car was tested on the dyno and that proved it was a lot stronger than the 476 or so HP it was supposed to have. I also managed a topspeed of +203 mph....

So either was this var specially prepared for the NARDO highspeed run or the car is simply this fast. Later test I have seen did not manage to repeate those numbers completly. A later test where the Turbo and the SL55 was tested together the Porsche was the fastest. The Porsche was equipped with a factory tuning kit with 450 Hp vs the stock 420 Hp ( made it a bit unfair) , the SL55 with 500 HP was a bit slower than the NARDO test car was.

So your SL600 is definatly capable of winning a race vs the TURBO Porsche, I have no problems beliving that.
It just supprise me is that you can give him a head start of 1 sec and then just reel him in like a fish on the hook in a fairly short race. I mean you did not race the guy passed 125 mph did you......

BTW: Lex please learn how to use the quote button :p

Paghmani

A race is not won on the quarter mile but on a track. Porsche there is no substitute. Its all about power/wieght ratio and the merc has big hp advantage not fair, you give the same hp/weight on a tuned GT2 and the game is over. Oh wait we saw the Maclaren merc lose to the Carrera GT never mind porsche won with less hp.lol

Improviz

and the TT V12 motors are as well. Here is a graph for a stock CL55. It is rated at 493 horsepower stock, but is dynoing nearly 440 horsepower at the wheels, which would mean that either its transmission is only losing 11%, or more likely that it's putting out about 30 to 50 more horsepower than it's rated, depending upon what driveline loss figures one uses. This was no fluke: it has been replicated many times on the E55 and SL55 models (check their forums; I'm too lazy to post more than one!). Mercedes is being a bit dishonest with us, it seems!

The post with the dyno graph:

The graph:

Improviz

Not if it's a 1/4 mile race, which is the topic of this thread!

BMW is the ultimate driving machine, wouldn't you really rather have a Buick, yadda yadda ya...marketing slogans aren't really the tool to use to make a persuasive argument.

Which would be because the GT2 has a huge weight advantage, right? So why are you holding the horsepower advantage against the Mercedes but not the weight advantage against the Porsche?

...because it also weighs less, 274kg (602 pounds) according to track-challenge.com. Weight is a killer on a race track, although the SL55 managed to run a 8'12" lap to the 996 Carrera's 8'17" lap on the Nuerburgring...pretty impressive when you consider it weighed in at 1968kg to the Porsche's

But I believe the topic of this post was neither Porsche marketing slogans nor Porsche performance on a race track, but rather a short race between an SL600 and a turbo Porsche.

Lexani

Oh, look what I have caused. Im sorry. I complelty apologize for starting this arguement. I hear people get banned for this, please, I promise not to do this again, it was unintentional. So, if there is no conflict, let me answer...

Ok first, you must unerstand, this Porsche was literally fresh out of the delearship, Im willing to bet he had maybe 20 miles on it- which means its not broken in- second he might have had tiptronic, and correct me if Im wrong, but if I were too combine the two, I think I should be able to give the Porsche a second and than some for a headstart, and still pull on him. Though it might be just me.

And Porsche vs. Mercedes. I like both, love Mercedes- obvious is it not? I agree with Improviz, using the manufactuer's slogan is hardly your best persuasive tactic, should be your last, in my opinion. Like at the end of a long speech about how Porsche is better than Mercedes, at the end you may say: Porsche. There is no substitue. Not at the beginning, however. Paghamani, I respect your opinion, granted you respect mine, I wish not to turn this into a 'flaming' thread, among other things.

"Which would be because the GT2 has a huge weight advantage, right? So why are you holding the horsepower advantage against the Mercedes but not the weight advantage against the Porsche?" - Improviz

I fugured it quite obvious, however, I believe he did not mention it because, why would someone trying to persuade you too agree with them, give you the negative side of their... point? It wouldn't make sense, you have to understand why he din't mention it- although he should have. Thank you for bringing it to my, and other members, attention, a valid point, in my opinion.

Hello Erik: Thank you, for sharing your knowledge, I appreciate it. And as for the almighty Carrera GT, get back to me, after I visit MKB. I will, granted my radar shows, no police activity, race anyone, in any vehicle, be it a Mustang Cobra, a McLaren F1, or even a Carrera GT. Lose or win, I can say I did. As for going over 125, I did not look at my speedometer, I don't believe we did though. Ah, and yes ofcourse, the "quote" button. I assure you, I know how to use it, however with that, you must ask the question: "Does he, infact want to use it?" Hehe... And for arguements sake, YES, I would be able to beat or at least, hang with a Carrera GT.

Predator: Im glad you see things, the way I do. And, Im glad your standing up for me, I tend to just keep my mouth shut if someone says something, even if I know its not true, I would just let it go, so thanks for the help. Yes, I'll admit the SL65 might be faster the SL65, from like a 120 punch, but hop on the throttle same time, from a standstill, and I guarentee you, the owner of the SL65, will enjoy the 600 badging, until he catches traction. Oh well, Im glad to know I can put up a fight, for about 100K cheaper. I bought my SL600 for 130K from Laguna Niguel, CA. And, I at Mercedes-Benz of Newport Beach, the SL65 was on sale for 230K. Who on earth would pay that much for a 65? Although pricing is not an issue, just thought I should mention that. Anyways, I appreciate what you have posted.

Paghamani: Quick post here, did you know that the Pagani C12S, has a Mercedes engine it? And did you also know, that a C12S would own a Carrera GT? Well... you do now.

Overall, I think my SL600 is a well-rounded vehicle, for a 130K price tag, at least. I know, I can beat or at least hang with the likes of: Ferrari, Lamborghini, Porsche, BMW, and so forth, some of which cost anywhere to 10 Times as much as my vehicle (Enzo), to 3 times as much (Murcielago). Also, if the driver of these vehicles, knows not what they do, Im pretty sure I have a good chance of holding my ground.

Paghmani

Lexani before you jump to conclusions on who makes the fastest production cars on earth let me show you a few.

www.supercars.net

1. Porsche 1970's Moby **** horizontally opposed6 1400hp 0-60 2.3-2.3 top 240+ (nothing compares)
2. porsche 962 duer 0-60 2.6 250mph
3. Gemballa 911 215mph
4. ruff 215mph
I' am sure there are alot more faster porsches out there but these are some that are famous.

Did you know maclaren f1 has a bmw motor and doesn't weight much. I wonder why its so fast. You are right the porsche weights less but i also forgot to mention it only has flat 6 twin turbo not "v12twin turbo" shows who has supperior techonology. In the 1940 when mecedes was seeking a fast car they went to the source Porsche, in the 90s the E500 was also sent to porsche. The carrera gt applied for more patents than any car produced.

Lexani

Ah, yes. The thousands of horsepower and the... yeah. (yawns). If you wan't to play with a few thousand horsepower, you might want to check the 1200 HP Lamborghini Diablo. 260+, nothing really compares. Afterwhich get back to me. Can you say 7 or 6? And good for Porsche. I commend them for making that much power out of a flat 6. And if Mercedes went to Porsche, hmmm, ok. The student beats the master. Come on, oh, and I got an in house, vehicle to match, if not beat the CGT, I think its called the CLK GTR, something along those lines. Hey, ok though, let me tell you something, there are vehicles faster than ones of which we speak, a close friend of my may races, and works on top fuel dragsters. You should see them run, after that, a CGT will seem kind of slow. But guess what? I don't care, if theres a faster vehicles than mine, that has thousands of horsepower and is running a 5000 PSI. Im not here on this forum to discuss such nonsense, if you want to however, find your way to the Asain Car forums, I heard hondas pull out about 1000 HP too, and are way much lighter, probably a whole lot faster too, so find your way there, and discuss your thousands, leave us civilized people in peace, because at the end of the day, the only thing you get out of 1400 ponies, is bragging rights. Come on.

Oh, and I meant no insult to Asains, its just there the ones with the Hondas.

BTW: Is that 1400 HP Porsche street-legal? Ha, did not think so.

Improviz

...none of the cars you listed are production cars. English lesson: production car means a factory-produced, street legal car available for sale to the general public, not a full-blown race car or customized production car.

Here is the production car which holds the world record for 0-60, 0-100, and 0-100-0, faster than the Carrera GT: the Ultima GTR:

Link to world record run and videos:

Link to chart showing times:

And for the second time: you keep straying . The topic is a straightline race between a Porsche Turbo and an SL600. If you have to change the topic to score points in a debate, you're losing.