Lexani

Wow- you have my gratitude for that comment. Amazing, how you flip things around. Green guy= Paghmani, Red guy= Improviz

Paghmani

Mercedes and porsche are not english cars (Thank god). Porsche track records speak for themselves. They have won more races than any production car, (nascar is not racing). By the way your new Lamborghin's have German engineering all over them (Audi). Maybe thats why they are not breaking down anymore.

Here the Carrera gt beating the maclaren slr.
http://supercarfreak.net/gallery/album133

For those who have been arguing the enzo is faster than Gt against the stop watch.
http://supercarfreak.net/gallery/album111/11_G

If you have to change the topic to score points in a debate, you're losing. It really makes me wonder why corvette people who try to downgrade Porsche to chevy level "Bravo". My point was company potential to its max. This is not a kill story for those that want to argue with emotional rethoric can do so(I think he was racing but not quit sure ). We learned from the lessons of the two automatic cars (enzo and slr losing to the manual GT against the clock) and history ended as far as cars was concerned.

Ok back to straight line topic. I am sorry sir but you will lose everytime against a turbo 911 with your automatic. I have witnesses it dozens of times from the driver and passanger seat. :p The guy you raced was probably a Carrera and not a Turbo or he just did not want to waste his time.

Quick post here, did you know that the Pagani C12S, has a Mercedes engine it? And did you also know, that a C12S would own a Carrera GT? Well... you do now

You are wrong again in germany both cars were tested and Carrera embarrased walked over the pagani bullocks, but it was valiant effort.
http://supercarfreak.net/gallery/album105 click through the pages and see.

The student beats the master. Come on, oh, and I got an in house, vehicle to match, if not beat the CGT, I think its called the CLK GTR, something along those lines. Hey, ok though, let me tell you something, there are vehicles faster than ones of which we speak, a close friend of my may races, and works on top fuel dragsters.

Give me a break GT1 Porsches walked 98 season versus CLk GTR.
Kill story = (maximum throttle versus maximum throttle) not racing a car which has double hp against a normal version hence this story ended.

Improviz

Car and Driver tested the 911 Turbo Cab in September 2004, and reported the following:

*THEN* they wrote the following:

And why did they say this? Because they had already tested the SL600, in March 2004:

Contrast those with the test results for the fastest Turbo Porsche they'd ever tested:
Zero to 60 mph: 3.8 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 9.2 sec
Zero to 130 mph: 16.0 sec
Street start, 5-60 mph: 5.0 sec
Standing 1/4-mile: 12.2 sec @ 116 mph


Got that, ace: Car & Driver tested the SL600 0.2 faster than the fastest Turbo Porsche they'd ever tested!!! Also note that particularly from a rolling-start race (which is the type of race we are discussing), the SL600 is MUCH faster, running from 5-60 (4.5 sec) a full half-second faster than the Porsche (5.0 sec).

But you know this, which is why you keep trying to change the subject, right??

And before you start saying this was a fluke: here are the test results for both the SL55 (a bit slower than the SL600) and the Porsche 996 Turbo from Auto Motor und Sport magazine:

Acceleration.....SL55 AMG.....Porsche Turbo
0 - 40 Km/h........1,4 s..........1,2 s
0 - 60 Km/h........2,2 s..........1,9 s
0 - 80 Km/h........3,1 s..........3,2 s
0 - 100 Km/h......4,3 s..........4,2 s
0 - 120 Km/h......5,6 s..........5,9 s
0 - 140 Km/h......7,1 s..........7,4 s
0 - 160 Km/h......9,4 s..........9,4 s
0 - 180 Km/h......11,2 s........11,9 s
0 - 200 Km/h......13,8 s........14,6 s

You might also be interested in reading the following report from Gustav, the moderator of the M5 board, about multiple autobahn runs between a new Turbo Porsche and an E55 (which tests at 12.3, a bit slower than the SL600):

Gustav's account:
Chew on that. You can come in here and post all day long, but the actual test results for these vehicles show that the actual topic is entirely plausible: that the Porsche got .

Keep trying to change the subject all you like with non sequiturs, mangled logic, and horrendously broken syntax, but you lose.

Finally, consider the following: if any given SL600 owner had wanted a Porsche Turbo, he could have bought one and had money left over...enough, in fact, to have bought each and every one of the cars you claim to own.

Oh, wow, a W210 '96 E320, worth about 1/13 of the cost of an SL600!!! And you own an at-least-12 year old Porsche, and an at-least-10 year old BMW!! Wow...I for one am deeply impressed!!

You talk dismissively about Chevies? A brand new Corvette, which will kill the *new* 911 on a track, and grind any car you own into powder, costs double what all of your cars put together are worth.

Yes, that's right: Car & Driver tested the new 'vette against the new 911, lapped the two of them on the 1.9 mile GingerMan raceway. Result: the Porsche came in 2.3 seconds slower per lap!!!

Accept no substitute? Lol!! If you're interested in racing, looks like your hated Chevy is a pretty good substitute!!

So you might want to choose your words a bit more carefully before coming in here and lecturing us as to the "class" of our cars, which will leave any car you own so far in the distance that you couldn't even *see* the taillights.

Get a life, and troll somewhere else!!

Paghmani

Improviz, the day you show me a "german magazine" showing any a 911 turbo can be beat by an automatic is when i admit im wrong.
American car magazines that consistantly embarres themselves by degrading a porsche into chevy or dodge level. It has been vastly agreed upon by people who know cars (europeans) and who actually "make them" that american car magazines times "deviat from the norm". BTW a race doesn't end at 125mph, the drag coef of a porsche is far supperior to any benz, at those high speeds im sure the turbo would leave most cars behind. Porsche has always "understated" their actual times and its been proven time and time again. The koolguy who test drove the GT2 at 12 seconds flat was not a good driver, or other conditions (tired choice, temperature, test equipment, same day run etc.. ) where at play. Here is a GT2 doing 11.9 flat run which sounds right ...

http://www.flat-6.net/forum/showcar....ar_model_id=34

To play it by your game here are some American magazine # broahah
American magazine motor trend times for Porsche

http://www.flat-6.net/forum/showcar....article_id=255

Porsche says the GT2 will accelerate from 0-60 in 4.1 sec. We say B.S. We've already gotten the heavier, less-powerful Turbo to beat feet to 60 in less than 4.0 (3.98, to be exact). So we're betting the lighter, more powerful GT2 can do 3.9. Or better. What these numbers can't describe is the feeling of accelerative g forces that pin your stomach to your spine and your butt to the back of the GT2's sport seats.

Motor trend needs to go back and test drive a coupe standard turbo against the sl600 and match the times of its american counterparts who did 11.9.

Lastly might i suggest you go burrow someones turbo or rent it and find out for yourself who builds the fastest cars instead of listening to heresay.

Post your times at pelican porche or flat-6.net, or rennist.lol "Porsche there is no substitute" especially no twin turbo v 12 automatic brohahaahha

Oh, wow, a W210 '96 E320, worth about 1/13 of the cost of an SL600!!! And you own an at-least-12 year old Porsche, and an at-least-10 year old BMW!! Wow...I for one am deeply impressed!!

A proud patriot capitalist, who measure's others by the amount of wealth they have acquired. Maybe you should see our home in beverly hills before you jump the gun. BTW my fiance whos a dentist asked if i wanted a f-355 or twin turbo i might take up her offer. Best things come to those who are humble and wait. :p

Improviz

Are you really this dumb? AUTO MOTOR UND SPORT IS A GERMAN MAGAZINE!! Click here for their homepage: And the site I linked to, track-challenge.com, is ALSO a German site: click here for their German page: They use data *exclusively* from Auto Motor und Sport. Email their webmaster if you like: he can probably provide you with original scanned copies of the tests being cited here.

Ignorant...

here are the test results for both the SL55 (a bit slower than the SL600) and the Porsche 996 Turbo from Auto Motor und Sport magazine:

Acceleration.....SL55 AMG.....Porsche Turbo
0 - 40 Km/h........1,4 s..........1,2 s
0 - 60 Km/h........2,2 s..........1,9 s
0 - 80 Km/h........3,1 s..........3,2 s
0 - 100 Km/h......4,3 s..........4,2 s
0 - 120 Km/h......5,6 s..........5,9 s
0 - 140 Km/h......7,1 s..........7,4 s
0 - 160 Km/h......9,4 s..........9,4 s
0 - 180 Km/h......11,2 s........11,9 s
0 - 200 Km/h......13,8 s........14,6 s

So, I guess now you will admit you are wrong, right?? I've gotta admit: no matter how many facts are posted showing how full of you are, you keep coming back and sticking your foot further in your mouth. Quite amusing, actually.

But what should we expect? You obviously didn't even bother to read the article I posted, even claiming it was from *MOTOR TREND*, when in fact it was from Car & Driver!! Pathetic.

And no, I won't go to any Porsche forum, because unlike you, I'm not immature enough to go trolling in forums like a 16-year old kid trying to pick fights with people who choose other brands of cars. I might suggest that *you* go there, however, as it would seem that you are more of a Porsche fan than a Mercedes fan, which begs the question of why you're here in the first place...

But the bottom line is this: you can keep whining, crying, and trying to change the subject all you like, but the test data I've provided from two magazines (one of which is German) plainly shows that the S/C and Turbo SL cars are faster. You are wrong, the magazine tests show it, and that's that.

As to money: yes, I think it's pretty astounding that you have the sack to come in here and lecture us about cars when you're driving ten-plus year old hand-me downs. And you proudly boast that you're a sponge who will live off of his woman? Good for you. I, on the other hand, put myself through college, earn every penny I make, and didn't need to marry up to increase my standard of living.

Paghmani

My dad is a doctor i could get you some zoloft or other types of anti-depressents or maybe viagra and if your approaching mid-life crisses i would suggest selling the CLK and buying a Corvette . Further more i suggest burrowing someones turbo or renting one instead of racing magazines. Wait a minute you mean an american magazine gave better times than a german one" Looks look you ate your own words.

I've gotta admit: no matter how many facts are posted showing how full of you are, you keep coming back and sticking your foot further in your mouth. Quite amusing, actually.

I gave you times from "not only" an American magazine but european bested all the times you posted.

MOTOR TREND*, when in fact it was from Car & Driver

Regardless my times best yours.

And no, I won't go to any Porsche forum, because unlike you, I'm not immature enough to go trolling in forums like a 16-year old kid trying to pick fights with people who choose other brands of cars. I might suggest that *you* go there, however, as it would seem that you are more of a Porsche fan than a Mercedes fan, which begs the question of why you're here in the first place...

I suggest next time you post times try to find all the times from the company themselves and more than 1 or 2 sources .With all your maturity i suggest not judging people by the amount of wealth they acquired. Try a more humble approach. I am 27 thank very much. You can't police the world with your nonsense times.lol German cars i love them all.

As to money: yes, I think it's pretty astounding that you have the sack to come in here and lecture us about cars when you're driving ten-plus year old hand-me downs. And you proudly boast that you're a sponge who will live off of his woman? Good for you. I, on the other hand, put myself through college, earn every penny I make, and didn't need to marry up to increase my standard of living.

Actually you were the one who brought up my cars. I also paid for my school. Again try being a little more humble and don't judge people by their wealth, there is always someone richer than you or I

Improviz

I repeat: AUTO MOTOR UND SPORT IS A GERMAN MAGAZINE!! Click here for their homepage: And the site I linked to, track-challenge.com, is ALSO a German site: click here for their German page: They use data *exclusively* from Auto Motor und Sport. Email their webmaster if you like: he can probably provide you with original scanned copies of the tests being cited here.

Ignorant...

here are the test results for both the SL55 (a bit slower than the SL600) and the Porsche 996 Turbo from Auto Motor und Sport magazine:

Acceleration.....SL55 AMG.....Porsche Turbo
0 - 40 Km/h........1,4 s..........1,2 s
0 - 60 Km/h........2,2 s..........1,9 s
0 - 80 Km/h........3,1 s..........3,2 s
0 - 100 Km/h......4,3 s..........4,2 s
0 - 120 Km/h......5,6 s..........5,9 s
0 - 140 Km/h......7,1 s..........7,4 s
0 - 160 Km/h......9,4 s..........9,4 s
0 - 180 Km/h......11,2 s........11,9 s
0 - 200 Km/h......13,8 s........14,6 s

So, I guess now you will admit you are wrong, right??

And here is more data for you: a South African magazine which also tested the SL55 faster than a GT3:
This was at high altitude, hence the slower times.

But again: stop backtracking. You said that if I posted German magazine test data showing the 911 was slower, you'd admit you're wrong. I did. Will you now admit you were wrong, or were you lying??

Lexani

This is actually suprisingly, amusing. I wonder, Paghmani, if I may ask a question... Why are you at the MB forums, if you so pride Porsche? I believe they have their own forums, in which you should fit in perfectly. ****y, and ignorant, much like the driver of the 911 Turbo (or, whichever it was). So do us a favour, and get registered with Porsche, and than you may go to the forums, and start a thread about Porsche vs. Mercedes and unload at free will, and, being stereotypical for a minute, all Porsche owners are alike, they will agree with you, and praise you. So why are you still here? You're fighting a battle in which your running out of ammunition. I would leave, were I you, however if you chose to stay you may continue amusing me, among other members. Oh, and one more thing, was your wife going to buy you the Ferrari, pay every cent? Because you know, I bought each and every one of my Mercedes, with my own money, I need not rely on a wife, or anyother person's financial status to enjoy matter. I hold it not agaisnt you for doing so, just you shouldn't mention it, much less with pride.

As for Porsche vs. Mercedes, Im going to be straight and say: Both cars have their ups and downs, just so happens the skill both vehicles were tested on, Porsche was less talented, if you will. Im not saying Porsche are bad cars, infact I was looking into a Carrera 4s, I have heard their fun cars to drive, just I like Mercedes better. You see, the difference between me and you is: I look at both sides of a vehicle; be it my own, or an opponents, and make my decision on which I like better after doing so, not just by focusing on the negative. Also, when someone tells me that a SL600 is faster than a Porsche 911, I don't go to supercar.net and find the fastest Porsche on earth, and say beat that. Nobody cares. Or wait- maybe I should, considering I see that 1400 HP Porsche 1000 times a day. If you wan't to talk speed records, its called the Thrust SCC. Land Speed record 750+ MPH. I win. Unless, theres a Porsche of some sort you might find with a million HP.

Paghmani

Lexani can i ask you question "How is this a kill-story"? Did he even race you or was he to busy smoking his cigar ? Do us a favor and post a kill story when you have one. Lastly i never said i didn't like Mercedes i drive one, my mom has one and my dad has one. I love eurocars in general. I never said mercedes is not good

Here are the facts at hand.

1. This is not a kill story.
2. I have posted Euro and american times which bested all ones posted here.
3. Improviz your wrong im right its not the end of the world.
4. I never said Mercedes is bad

Lexani

You know, Im wondering. Are you stupid, or are you just making a special effort today? Not a kill sotry? So be it, don't believe in it, means nothing. Espically coming from a wife-supported 27 yr old. Like I said before (gee, I find myslelf repeating myself, but only around you) I was there, you were not. He smoked off the line, juked in and out of lanes, and was revving his engine. Get a hold of yourself. Porsche lost, its really not the end of the world, you have my assurance on this matter. Think what you will, lie to yourself if you have too, I don't care, but don't come in here, and try to tell me what happen when I WAS THERE! Get it through your head, its like talking to a brick! He lost. The cold hard truth. Your blind patriotism to Porsche is pathetic, much like your life.

Here are the facts at hand:
1. Your stupid as a brick
2. Porsche lost
3. Improviz is right, your wrong, not the end of the world
4. Your 16

If you are infact, 27, you might want to go to Adult School, and learn some proper grammar skills, among other things. Oh, and why are you bragging about your parents being doctors and dentists? I don't think, anyone cares, but tell you what, I'll remember it when I need to phone a friend, my assurance in that matter, you have.

Improviz

Lol, because you said so, eh?? You're pretty entertaining, gotta admit that...but here's a reply that's worthy of the drivel you wrote:

Is too, is too!

Actually, you haven't. In fact, you haven't posted *any* links for a 911 Turbo. You posted two links: one a spec page from a Porsche forum for a GT2, the other an article about the GT2 from Motor Trend, both of which present some problems:

1) first and foremost: the GT2 is not the car Lexani raced; he raced a 911 Turbo. As can be seen by reading this comparison:The GT2 is faster than the 911 Turbo.

2) and 3) refer to the Motor Trend article you linked:

2) even if the GT2 was the car he'd raced, the article does not mention its times;

3) the article does mention the 0-60 time they tested for a 911 Turbo (3.98 seconds); unfortunately for you, this is slower than the time I posted for the SL600 (3.6 seconds)!

4) even though the GT2 article you cited was a first drive article which did not contain actual test numbers, in another article, Motor Trend *did* test the GT2. But guess what: they ran a 12.09 @ 119.9, still not a match for the 11.9 @ 120 Car & Driver got in the SL600!! (Even though the GT2's times are irrelavent to the race in question, I thought it amusing that they still did not match the SL600, and so posted them.)

Times I posted for the SL600, from Car & Driver:
Zero to 60 mph: 3.6 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 8.6 sec
Zero to 120 mph: 11.9 sec
Street start, 5-60 mph: 4.5 sec
Standing 1/4-mile: 11.9 sec @ 120 mph

And your claim to have posted "Euro links" which bested the times shown here; this is another lie: you have not posted one Euro time for the 911 Turbo in this thread.

You also stated that if I provided a German road test showing the Mercedes SL faster than the Porsche 911 Turbo, you'd admit you were wrong. Another lie.

Um...yeah, as anyone who checks the above links can see!!



You don't have to...your constant bashing of it speaks volumes.

Lexani

"Times I posted for the SL600, from Car & Driver:
Zero to 60 mph: 3.6 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 8.6 sec
Zero to 120 mph: 11.9 sec
Street start, 5-60 mph: 4.5 sec
Standing 1/4-mile: 11.9 sec @ 120 mph

Even though the GT2's times are irrelavent to the race in question, I thought it amusing that they still did not match the SL600, and so posted it."

Amazing. Hmm... thats rather interesting. But its Haha... Im just playing. Nice find!

EKaru

Two simple facts:

1. The Mercedes Benz SL600 is quicker than the Porsche 996 Turbo in straight line acceleration...
2. The Porsche 996 Turbo is quicker than the SL600 around the corners....
For the people that don't understand/accept these two facts are blinkered...

Eric....

Lexani

Agreed. Although Paghmani won't.

Erik

OK this is getting totaly out of hand as (to) many of the discissions on this board seem to do.

As a more or less neutral bistander I have to give my 0.2 cent.

1. The SL55 is faster than the 996 Turbo in more or less all the test I have seen. My references are ONLY Sport Auto or Auto Motor & Sport. To compare results gotten by those mags to what some get in the US is not accurate. Different test methodes maybe, US mags normaly use sticky tracks to get results ( I think) and probably other things or maybe not... I stick to those I resepct and know......

Improwiz put up some numbers. They are from the Supertest SL55 and Nardo car. That specific SL was fast, just for fun I try to indicate how fast and why this car was suggested by many to be manipulated.
I have personally gotten totaly murdered by the SL55 and was probably the very first that posted a high speed race against the SL55 in the interenett. Due to that I do not want to woice a strong opinion about the possible special threatment of that car, since I know they are scary fast.
But the other cars tested by the same mag has been slower than this specific car, not by much only app ,5 sec to 125 mph.( probaly(maybe within the margin of error or variance of cars)


The SL55 was in that shotout matched against the following cars.
GT2 First version
Lambo Murc
Aston
Ferrari 570 Maranello.
+few others

The funny thing was that the Lambo and the GT2 was fastest to 62 mph and 125 mph. with the SL55 2,5 sec slower to 125 mph.
Then they also tested the 0-186mph ( 300 kph). There the SL55 was fastest by 2,5 sec. That means it beat Lambo with almost 5 sec from 125 and the GT2 with even more.
The SL55 reached 186 mph in 32 sec.

I also have the time for the SL65 but I can not find the mag and am not 100% sure of the time so I skip write anything.

So if the SL600 is equally fast as the SL55 or faster I think the result is proven beone reassonable doubt.

So concerning the even more OT about whos making the fastest car.

The CGT is in straigh line a tiny bit slower than the Enzo and a tiny bit faster on track. Fact. The Enzo is so fraggile that it will break down under tough use, while the CGT ( and most other Porsche) continue for ever ( Almost)

But the Maclaren F1 will destroy both of them in straigh line and topsepeed by a huge margin.
The Mclaren F1 is a high 10 sec. 1/4 car with 10 year old tires technology and reach GPS tested topspeed of 243 mph.
The Mclaren has never been tested against todays supercars ( it is 10 years old), but an English mag took the McLaren and teh CGT to the track to compare. The difference out of curves was so great that even the bistanders did notice the difference in power and speed.....

0-186 mph in the Big mac is just a bit more than 20 sec.
Both the CGT and the Mclaren use less than 10 sec to hit 125 mph, the CGT use app 15-17 sec from 125mph to 186, The Mclaren used only 12 sec. HUGE difference.

The only production car that has a chance of beating the Big Mac is the Swedish Koeniggsegg, 805 Hp at 1150 kg. It is supposed to pass 400 kph and do the 1/4 in 9 sec.( I do not belive the 1/4 time)
Nothing of this has been confirmed so until then the McLaren F1 is the most amazing Sports car every builda few nice points
-24 Karats GOLD as heat shield.
-Titanium Tool kit.
-3 seats, driver in the middle.
-less than 1200 kg
-627 Hp... V12


The McLaren SLR is also a fast car, in most races it will probably beat the CGT, not cause it is faster but it is a lot easier to drive.
The CGT is extremly difficult and demanding to drive. If you are not a PRO or close the car will kick your *** hard.


BTW: Improwiz, you quoted a test, where the tester complaining about huge understeer of the Porsche, that is probably the only time I have heard anyone complain about that point exept in slow speed corners. It was strange.


But in the end I have to make a remark about the tone of this board.

I can not for my life understand how it almost always end in a fuc**** pissing contest.
I spend most of my time on M5 board and it is extremly rare I experience this kind of tone on our board. And please not respond by only blaiming "visitors" that would not be fair.

Have a good Christmas..... :p

Lexani

Interesting. Well, if were going to go head to head with the McLaren F1, I would suggest instead of the Koeniggsegg, the Bugatti Veyron 16/4. And while were on the 0-180 topic, it blasts to that speed in a mere 13 seconds. So, McLaren, sorry, but its been beat. And to answer your question, the reason I believe there is so much argueing around here, is because we have some members that hate MB, and got registered, and started trying to find every bad angle of a MB and post it, afterwards MB members argue the point, and so on and so forth. And BTW, who cares about the 24K gold wall it has?

Erik

No.... actually it has not.....

Problem is, the Bugatti is probably never going to be put in production. It has never been tested by anyone either. Its a fairytail, 1001 Hp and +400 kph.....
If it are going to be put into production it will be with much less than the 1001 Hp it was supossed to have.
The design of the car does not handle speed close to 400 kph.... it would jump of the road, like the MB race cars did at Le Mans a few years back.... :p
Even if it will hit the streets with 1001 HP it will never be able to hit 186 mph 13 sec.....( I think)


My remarks about the Gold in the McLaren was only to illustrate the level of engineering and the total commitement put into the car. Not to meantion the complete body in carbon fiber material....

I am not sure you remark concerning guys hating MB is correct either, it must or should be acceptable to enter a discussion and voicing an opinion other than your own without beeing called an idiot, troll or MB hater.....

Lexani

"No.... actually it has not.....

Problem is, the Bugatti is probably never going to be put in production. It has never been tested by anyone either. Its a fairytail, 1001 Hp and +400 kph.....
If it are going to be put into production it will be with much less than the 1001 Hp it was supossed to have.
The design of the car does not handle speed close to 400 kph.... it would jump of the road, like the MB race cars did at Le Mans a few years back.... :p
Even if it will hit the streets with 1001 HP it will never be able to hit 186 mph 13 sec.....( I think)"

Thinking is not a way to persuade me, about the abilities of the vehicle. And yes, it has been tested, I have seen videos of it around tracks and such. Downloaded of Kazaa or Limewire, I forget."

"My remarks about the Gold in the McLaren was only to illustrate the level of engineering and the total commitement put into the car. Not to meantion the complete body in carbon fiber material...."

Indeed. I have to go and gold plate my engine cover, for my SL600, and probably my turnk for the E55, so I can fit in. Nobody cares. Least, I see no reason to do so.

"I am not sure you remark concerning guys hating MB is correct either, it must or should be acceptable to enter a discussion and voicing an opinion other than your own without beeing called an idiot, troll or MB hater....."

Agreed, his opinion was taken, proven wrong, and that should have been the end of it, its like saying:
Me- "E55 is faster than McLaren!"
You- "No, heres the proof. McLaren 0-180 in 20 seconds, E55 0-180 in 35 seconds."
Me- "Proposturous! Those times arn't to be trusted. There American."
You- "Ok, here are german times..."
Me- "Nope, look here, the E55 in this magazine..."
Just never stops, see? I respect people's opinions, be they good or bad, however when proven wrong, I expect them to drop it, and call it a day.

Improviz

This hits the nail right on the head. These forums seem to be full of people who are here not to engage in any sort of honest debate, but rather to simply beat people over the head with their perceptions, facts be damned.

It is an adaptation of the techniques used by demagogues: make an assertion, and when/if any facts surface showing the assertion is wrong, simply attack the source of the fact as either unreliable, or having suspicious motives.

Or, if that doesn't work: change the subject, so that you can argue some other point than the one you're losing! All of which, of course, Paghmani has done in his little rant-fest here.

Witness the idiocy of APK1013's relentless crusade to try and convince people here that he staved off a supercharged CL55 from 0-110 in an M5. Despite all evidence to the contrary presented to him, which consists of Mercedes' quoted performance numbers, instrumented test data for both the CL55, S55, E55, and SL55, and video of an S55, which is heavier than the CL55, doing 0-100 in just over 9 seconds--nearly two full seconds faster than any M5 has been tested at 0-100--he keeps arguing the point over and over and over. rolleyes:

Further, when challenged to actually show up in person to race any of the supercharged V8 AMGs, he first said he would, and then when some time elapsed between his agreeing to do so, began hurling insults at AMG owners (calling them "little old ladies", "wimps", of "not having the sack" to show up, etc...) until finally, an E55 owner who lives in his neck of the woods agreed to show up and meet him...

So, what did he do? First, of course, he backed out of the race, then, when no CL55 owner decided to waste the time on him, changed his argument: oh, he hadn't said that he could beat an *E55*, only a *CL55*, as if there's some monumental difference in straightline performance between the two cars.

And now, despite having been presented with the aforementioned evidence, including both Motor Trend road tests for the E55 and CL55 showing the two less than 1/10 of a second apart in the 1/4 mile, data from Road & Track showing that the E55 and SL55 (which weighs the same as the CL55) get from 0-100 exactly 1/10 apart, and the video evidence from the S55 (which weighs more than the CL55), he still keeps parroting the same nonsense over and over.

The performance of Paghmani in this post is exactly the same sort of rant...first he states that it's impossible for a Porsche 911 to have gotten beat by an SL600, then when presented with test data showing it's faster, assails American magazines as "unreliable", and that he'd only admit he was wrong if German data was presented; when such data was presented, he simply posted data from several other Porsches, up to and including full race and/or nonproduction models, *none* of which were the model Lexani raced, and claimed that he had "won", everyone else was wrong, and he was right, facts be damned.

Well, I'm sorry, Erik, but after a certain point this sort of nonsense gets tiresome, and we get annoyed with it, particularly when it is often wrapped in degrading comments towards the Mercedes brand and its owners.

Erik, I would invite you to go to any BMW or Porsche forum and start a thread claiming superiority of Porsche/BMW over BMW/Porsche, insulting the brand, the car, and its owners, and see what kind of reception you get. I would wager that after such an experience, you would be singing our virtues, and this is from many hours of perusing said forums over several years.

Paghmani

I spend most of my time on M5 board and it is extremly rare I experience this kind of tone on our board. And please not respond by only blaiming "visitors" that would not be fair.

Amen happy holidays!

The Mclaren F1 is a high 10 sec. 1/4 car with 10 year old tires technology and reach GPS tested topspeed of 243 mph. The Mclaren has never been tested against todays supercars ( it is 10 years old), but an English mag took the McLaren and teh CGT to the track to compare. The difference out of curves was so great that even the bistanders did notice the difference in power and speed.....The only production car that has a chance of beating the Big Mac is the Swedish Koeniggsegg, 805 Hp at 1150 kg. It is supposed to pass 400 kph and do the 1/4 in 9 sec.( I do not belive the 1/4 time)
Nothing of this has been confirmed so until then the McLaren F1 is the most amazing Sports car every builda few nice points


Mclaren was tested against Enzo and against Carrera GT in EVO

http://supercarfreak.net/gallery/album120

My remarks about the Gold in the McLaren was only to illustrate the level of engineering

Gold plating reduces heat!

These are in production the 962 duer(1 left) and i believe few GT1's are left, which can be purchased through Porsche Germany both cars exceed $1 million mark. It is manufarctured by the car manufacturer itself and not my foreign sources, if im not mistaken unlike the maclaren which uses bmw motor and british accessories. The following are factory times tested many times by many sources abroad. Still undispuited king of automotive industry. My personal list is based on 0-60 and quarter mile runs and 125-175mph times not top speed.

All the 50 Dauer 962 Le Mans road cars that can be built will have a good competition history. “There is still one brand new unraced for sale at Porsche.” Jochen Dauer explained, “but from that point of view it will be worth less to a collector purely it has no history.

1. Porsche 962 Duer LM(street verstion) http://www.flat-6.net/forum/showcar....ar_model_id=70
0-60 2.6 top 250mph quarter mile 9.2

http://www.flat-6.net/forum/showcar....article_id=227

German stylist who used to work for Porsche Design and who panned the famous McLaren M26 F1 car of the 1970´s. Latterly, Storz has designed concept cars for Audi, BMW, Citroen, VW and Nissan.

This engine is fully European emissions legal thanks to racing catalytic convertors and Bosch Motronic 1.7 engine management. The latter allows a relatively high 9.0:1 compression ratio to be run without any problems. The 730bhp is delivered at 7,400rpm, you get a red warning light at 7,300rpm, the soft-cut rev limiter goes into action at 7,400rpm and there is a hard cut-out at 7,800rpm. At 1080kg, the 962LM may weigh around 180kg more than its competition brother, but its power-to weight ratio is still better than a McLaren F1s. In a drag start, 0-60mph takes just 2.6 sec in first gear! Five seconds later you have doubled your speed again. Ultimately a shade over 250mph is possible, about twice the take-off speed of a jumbo jet!

3. Porsche GT1 (street version)

0-60 3.4 top 190 quarter mile 10.4
http://www.flat-6.net/forum/showcar....ar_model_id=33

4. Ferrari Enzo

0-60 3.3 quarter mile 11.3 top 217 mph (many test by pretty much all magazines)

5. Mclaren F1(street version not lemans) (many test by pretty much all magazines)

0-60 3.4 quarter mile 11.4 top 240 mph

The only production car that has a chance of beating the Big Mac is the Swedish Koeniggsegg, 805 Hp at 1150 kg. It is supposed to pass 400 kph and do the 1/4 in 9 sec.( I do not belive the 1/4 time)


Bugatti Veyron released to public its intra level test, their hopes failed as the results came in. Top speed was 220 mph and no where near the expected 0-60 2.7. Wind tunnel tests showed (design) the rear spoiler was blamed for too much down force, and lack of stability no its chasis. Project delayed again.


I don't know where to place the Koenigsegg CCR the quarter mile time has not been verified and is vague at best and it does 0-60 3.2 seconds not 2.6 as with the duer who pulled a 9.2.

Koenigsegg CCR
0-60 3.2 top: 242 quarter mile: 9 (Not verifiable)
http://www.koenigsegg.com/thecars/index.asp?submenu=4

This car is underated partly due to lack of testing and marketing.

Dunkie

Admin, please get rid of this Paghmani moron, he is a sore loser and doesnt want to give up the fact that his precious little porsche "friend" lost. I think that eric said it best, and I restate:

1. The Mercedes Benz SL600 is quicker than the Porsche 996 Turbo in straight line acceleration...
2. The Porsche 996 Turbo is quicker than the SL600 around the corners....
For the people that don't understand/accept these two facts are blinkered...

Paghmani

I am hoping someone can clarify my question.

I know the M (motorsport division of BMW) is exclusivly BMW. From what i have read the owner of AMG who lives now in Florida owns Renntech or Rennsport one of those, the brain child of the original AMG hammer motor. Is AMG part of mercedes or does mercedes go to AMG for tuning? Similar to Dinan being independant but doesn't void BMW warranty if tuned by Dinan.

Thanks!


Dunkie everyone has a right to your opinon and if someone doesn't agree with you, you shouldn't take it personal! Arguing with someone on the internet will only bring you to their level, they will win with experience. :p

Lexani

"Dunkie everyone has a right to your opinon and if someone doesn't agree with you, you shouldn't take it personal! Arguing with someone on the internet will only bring you to their level, they will win with experience."

Bet you felt good writing that. Makes you feel good, huh? Don't pride yourself just yet, that post wasn't as good as you thought it was. I, for one, agree with Dunkie, nothing personal, just the fact your stupid as a brick. Proven wrong time and time again, and than always come back for seconds. Get it through your head, its the end of the world that the Porsche lost.

BTW: Are you sure your 27? Because... you spelled opinion wrong, and your grammar is horrible... just a thought.

Paghmani

Lexani the real reason your so upset is you "don't know which model you were racing", but if it makes you feel better by defeating a NA 911 that looked like a turbo then it makes you the better man.

Porsche 911 Turbo busts out, and gets right in my ***
And suddenly it seemed he stopped in his tracks,
the Porsche was so far back, I come to wonder, why he even bothered.
much like the driver of the 911 Turbo (or, whichever it was)

As a law student you are taught who is full deciet and lies. Based on this evidence you had no idea what you were racing.

I rest my case say, this is a non-verifiable kill story.
I am no longer wasting the owner of this forums time on one person who mis-respresents a kill story. :p

RU_MATRX

Hey Lexani:

First of all, welcome to MBWorld.org and the multitude of perspectives and enthusiasts. As in any large, popular forum you will see all aspects of maturity levels as well as perspectives that will carry a simple topic such as this thread to 8+ pages, just check out the SL65 kill against a Z06 below.....always those that are jealous, skeptical or confrontational to take a simple account of events straight off topic. Of course, there's always value in discussion which wouldn't be presented were the thread strictly adhered to....when was the last time anyone carried a subtopic or side debate onto a new thread?

Anyways, the 3.6 secs 0-60 MPH of the SL600 posted by Car & Driver produced much debate and research here and on many other forums. It shouldn't be used as the basis of a standard SL600 found at any MB dealership to form fact as no other magazine has come close to those spectacular figures (please search for more insights). There are several concurrent owners of both a Renntech SL600 and a 660HP+ 996TT that will tell you that even though it's theoretically feasible for an SL600 to attain those incredible numbers (BF Drags, optimal conditions in temp, track and so forth) it's not realistic-check sites such as 6-speedonline, etc.. Even though the SL600 produces great torque, there were several descriptions in that particular C&D article which most likely designates that tested SL600 to have had an ECU and transmission modification. Btw, C&D also always consistently has the best numbers generated for any new vehicle and they are inconsistent with other tests they've accomplished as well as in comparison to other rags. Read the details of their 1/4 mile times and such. It's not surprising that the tracks they test at to get numbers oftentimes, are on a slope, extrapolated due to lack of road, etc..

In regards to the 911 Turbo, it sounds like the gentlemen you raced just purchased a 996 Turbo which is in fact a twin-turbo transverse-opposed 6. They are all considered 911's though the 964/993/996/997 designations just translate to the generation of 911. It could have been a Tiptronic which is comparable to an SL55/SL600. The 6 speed version though would have been considerable quicker than the SL55/SL600. Then again, on the streets, even with AWD, the new driver wasn't likely to have optimized his launches or shifting being so new to the vehicle if it were a 6 speed manual. I've owned a 2002 996TT 6sp ~520HP/510 ft-lbs TQ and can definitely say that on a short stretch of 0-60MPH the STOCK 415HP 996 Turbo is fierce and would regularly beat an SL600 on weight, traction, and short-spaced gearing and quicker shifting. 996 Turbos regularly hit 3.8-4.0 secs 0-60MPH while SL600s are more in the 4.2-4.5 magazine tested range (0.2 secs=~1.5 car-length at these low sprints). The C&D posted time of 0-60MPH in 3.6secs is truly an anomaly for a STOCK SL600, not yet replicated by anyone I've seen, let alone a sub-4.0sec run (NONE). My ECU optimized SL55 with dual K&N filters doesn't appear nearly as quick as a stock 996 Turbo 6 speed though the stock SL600 (haven driven them and gauged by others here) would be very similar to my SL55 if we're talking about lower speed acceleration runs of 0-60MPH. Of course, it's a completely different story when we start comparing the discrepancies beyond 60MPH which is where the AMGs shine although the 996TT 6 sp is no slouch there. So,.....as common knowledge, anything can happen on the streets and all of these vehicles are really relatively close in acceleration times 0-60MPH to be affected greatly by the driver and road conditions for a short sprint on any given day. Isn't it great that any, heavy AMG MB hardtop (with +800-1000lbs more) can match a niche, uber sportscar like the 996 Turbo so well? I'm certain that this straight-line aspect wasn't the highest and primary priority in choosing the SL55/SL600/SL65 over a dedicated GT sportscar like a 996TT right? I chose the SL55 for the greater overall package, refinement and luxury though I truly miss my 996 Turbo and will have a 997 Turbo in the future.