jimmysanjuan

Sorry to jump in so late... I too am new to the forum, from SO OC and also ran against a silver Porsche, new plates, Turbo and the 4 pipe exhaust, and driver like the one Lexani described....I ran him getting on the 405 in SJC, pulled around him from a 20MPH start...and ran past him to about 90MPH. Too much traffic to keep it up, so I slowed to 70, and he came up alongside and flipped me off. O well, it felt like a kill to me.

Erik

Not quite sure, but they started up as an independant tuner. When we picked up our 280E AMG in 1980 it was then run by Hans Werner Aufrecht, one of the founders of AMG. The A in AMG comes from his family name Aufrecht.....

They aimed to be for MB what ALPINA was for BMW.
Today I belive that AMG is a part of MB, the link is for sure very strong.

But since this is an MB page someone must know the AMG history better than I do.

Erik

Maybe not but logical thinking is not a bad thing.
Use you logic sence and try to imagine what that number indicates.
13 sec from 0 186 mph, I would guess that is almost Formula 1 performance.


Fine, but it still no test made, unless offcourse the testing made by Bugatti themselves.
No magasine has ever been aloved to test the car to verify this numbers.
The fact that it exist a video of the car on a track is not supprising at all, but is does not prove anything.....

The perfomance claim is a pure marketing thing to get the attention they need to survive.


Hi Lex, you know better than to come up with an reply like that.......

GOLD is or at least was the best heat reflector available. The complete engine comartement is covered with it.


It was not made for showing off, like it would be of you made your MB star of gold and mounted it on your car......

trbo2nr

Nice ride! I can only dream......

Erik

That was the article I was refering to....
http://supercarfreak.net/gallery/album120/Evo10

That is NO test, just a comparisson on the track, and the ENZO was not a part of it..... . The difference in power between the 2 cars was not only noticable inside the car, it was visable from outside as well.

read the page in the link and you will see.....

The McLaren did a 11.1@137 mph in Auto Motor & Sport 03.June 1994. The only mag in Europe I have seen that did a real test and not only quoting factory numbers.
Put modern tires on that car and it will run into high 10 sec.......
Even the GT1 Porshce is far behind in performance. I have a test of GT1, GT2 and GT3 made by AMS and the GT1 is an amazing car but NOT capable of beating the McLaren on anything else than maybe on a racetrack......

FThornton666

The McLaren F1 is just such a great car, even Jeremy Clarkson admitted its a great car and he doesnt even like it. Anyone seen the video of Topgear with the Enzo, CGT, F40, Jaguar XJ220, and the F1?

Lexani

"Lexani the real reason your so upset is you "don't know which model you were racing", but if it makes you feel better by defeating a NA 911 that looked like a turbo then it makes you the better man. "

Wow! It amazes me how ridiculously stupid you are! Although it probably shouldn't. Your last sentence, due to your perfect grammar as a lawyer, it does not make anysense. The only thing you have done is proven you are stupid. You should have said:

Lexani, the real reason your so upset is you: "Don't know which model you were racing", but if it makes you feel better knowing that you defeated a 911, more power to you.

That Paghmani, my dear friend, I would have taken as an insult, not as evidence of your stupidity, as we all know, we have far too much of it. At least from you.

" Porsche 911 Turbo busts out, and gets right in my ***
And suddenly it seemed he stopped in his tracks,
the Porsche was so far back, I come to wonder, why he even bothered.
much like the driver of the 911 Turbo (or, whichever it was)

As a law student you are taught who is full deciet and lies. Based on this evidence you had no idea what you were racing."

Ok, lawyer. As you already may have known, since you read every peice of evidence, I later said, I wasn't infact sure of which model I raced, so the above post, is yet again, an insight to your evergrowing stupidity; as a Lawyer even, wow, I would hate to have you defending me for something, I might as well plead guilty from the start.

"I rest my case say, this is a non-verifiable kill story.
I am no longer wasting the owner of this forums time on one person who mis-respresents a kill story. :p "

No comment.

Lexani

"Hey Lexani:

First of all, welcome to MBWorld.org and the multitude of perspectives and enthusiasts. As in any large, popular forum you will see all aspects of maturity levels as well as perspectives that will carry a simple topic such as this thread to 8+ pages, just check out the SL65 kill against a Z06 below.....always those that are jealous, skeptical or confrontational to take a simple account of events straight off topic. Of course, there's always value in discussion which wouldn't be presented were the thread strictly adhered to....when was the last time anyone carried a subtopic or side debate onto a new thread?"

First, thank you for welcoming me to mbworld, along with the multitude of perspectives and ethusiasts. So far, its been interesting, to say the very least. And yes, obviously I'am well aware of how far a topic such as this will go. I have seen the other thread with the Z06 and SL65. Again, thank you for the welcome, and I hope to have future discussions with a fellow SL owner, pherhaps even meet somewhere.

"Anyways, the 3.6 secs 0-60 MPH of the SL600 posted by Car & Driver produced much debate and research here and on many other forums. It shouldn't be used as the basis of a standard SL600 found at any MB dealership to form fact as no other magazine has come close to those spectacular figures (please search for more insights). There are several concurrent owners of both a Renntech SL600 and a 660HP+ 996TT that will tell you that even though it's theoretically feasible for an SL600 to attain those incredible numbers (BF Drags, optimal conditions in temp, track and so forth) it's not realistic-check sites such as 6-speedonline, etc.. Even though the SL600 produces great torque, there were several descriptions in that particular C&D article which most likely designates that tested SL600 to have had an ECU and transmission modification. Btw, C&D also always consistently has the best numbers generated for any new vehicle and they are inconsistent with other tests they've accomplished as well as in comparison to other rags. Read the details of their 1/4 mile times and such. It's not surprising that the tracks they test at to get numbers oftentimes, are on a slope, extrapolated due to lack of road, etc.."

Ah yes, where would we be without the: "Theres no way a SL600 can be fast." Excuses. Ok first thing: I, infact, do believe the times listed for my SL600 in the Car & Driver, it is infact why I bought my SL600, I was looking at an SL55 AMG, brilliant black, suede, two tone black and red leather, the works. However, after seeing the performance for the SL55; not that its bad, mind you, its just when I was searching for a new vehicle, I had the E55, and I did not wan't to buy a weekend vehicle that would be slower than the E55, so therefore I bough the SL600. Anyways, were I raced this Porsche was, next to the PCH, right next to John Wayne Airport actually, it was about 60-70 outside, my vehicle was warmed up. And the humidity, was fair. My SL600 rides on Michellin tires. Some type of Le Mans, apparntly, its what I was told from where I bought them. So, I figure i pulled really good times agaisnt the Porsche. Now, if I would have lost, I would have infact, been skeptical of the times, however knowing the Porsches time, and knowning Im faster, leaves no doubt in my mind.

"In regards to the 911 Turbo, it sounds like the gentlemen you raced just purchased a 996 Turbo which is in fact a twin-turbo transverse-opposed 6. They are all considered 911's though the 964/993/996/997 designations just translate to the generation of 911. It could have been a Tiptronic which is comparable to an SL55/SL600. The 6 speed version though would have been considerable quicker than the SL55/SL600. Then again, on the streets, even with AWD, the new driver wasn't likely to have optimized his launches or shifting being so new to the vehicle if it were a 6 speed manual. I've owned a 2002 996TT 6sp ~520HP/510 ft-lbs TQ and can definitely say that on a short stretch of 0-60MPH the STOCK 415HP 996 Turbo is fierce and would regularly beat an SL600 on weight, traction, and short-spaced gearing and quicker shifting. 996 Turbos regularly hit 3.8-4.0 secs 0-60MPH while SL600s are more in the 4.2-4.5 magazine tested range (0.2 secs=~1.5 car-length at these low sprints). The C&D posted time of 0-60MPH in 3.6secs is truly an anomaly for a STOCK SL600, not yet replicated by anyone I've seen, let alone a sub-4.0sec run (NONE). My ECU optimized SL55 with dual K&N filters doesn't appear nearly as quick as a stock 996 Turbo 6 speed though the stock SL600 (haven driven them and gauged by others here) would be very similar to my SL55 if we're talking about lower speed acceleration runs of 0-60MPH. Of course, it's a completely different story when we start comparing the discrepancies beyond 60MPH which is where the AMGs shine although the 996TT 6 sp is no slouch there. So,.....as common knowledge, anything can happen on the streets and all of these vehicles are really relatively close in acceleration times 0-60MPH to be affected greatly by the driver and road conditions for a short sprint on any given day. Isn't it great that any, heavy AMG MB hardtop (with +800-1000lbs more) can match a niche, uber sportscar like the 996 Turbo so well? I'm certain that this straight-line aspect wasn't the highest and primary priority in choosing the SL55/SL600/SL65 over a dedicated GT sportscar like a 996TT right? I chose the SL55 for the greater overall package, refinement and luxury though I truly miss my 996 Turbo and will have a 997 Turbo in the future."

Whew. Ok, as far as the Porsche goes, Im sorry to say, I still can't be sure of which model it is, however I'll leave it to a, agree to disagree per si, however with that I shall leave you with the chrome badge on the back with said, just like he did: "Turbo." Now, everyone here can, obviously, come ehre and say my story is ridiculous, or even a lie, because a Porsche can do this and do that, and look at its record, and blah, blah, blah, blah... however, after seeing it performe agaisn't my SL600, I don't care what anyone says, because I was there, I saw it in my rear-view, I counted the one-second headstart I gave it- Me, not Paghmani, nor anyone else here. So tell me what you will about the Porsche possibly being faster, or its records it set, because I care none. Sorry to come off so rude, but please, understand where Im coming from. Everyday, I come on, someone has to say something, like their lawyers, and their parents are dentists and doctors alike, and how he knows that Porsche would have beaten me, and all this, everyday, Im sorry friend, but its getting tiresome.

BTW: Of special note, I raced, more like had a quick punch with an SL55 before straight from 75, we hit to 125, and he was behind. So, I know, Im faster than an SL55. Again, forgive me, I mean not to insult your vehicle, or anyones elses', its just... Im tired of people telling me, what's faster when I damnwell know, its not.

Again, nice to meet you, and I hope to have future discussions amongst overselves, and other MB enthusiasts.

Lexani

Think nothing of it. Welcome to the mb boards, of skeptics, liars, and above all enthusiasts. Hope you enjoy your stay, better than mine.

As for the E55 vs Porsche, as I described I believe he is faster, however he would have to have perfect shifts, and be a pretty good driver, anyways nice kill, our Benzs sure give a hell of a good run for Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini, and such. Even better than knowning you could kill a Lamborhgini Murcielago, is the drivers look at the next light. Have a nice day, and drive safe!

Lexani

McLaren F1. Why is it in this discussion? I did not race one? No matter, the car has great performance, but not even that could make up for its hideous looks. I would rather take an E55.

And who is Jeremy Clarkson? I hear off him so much, yet I know nothing of him.

Lexani

"Maybe not but logical thinking is not a bad thing.
Use you logic sence and try to imagine what that number indicates.
13 sec from 0 186 mph, I would guess that is almost Formula 1 performance"

True, but with 4 Turbos power it- leaves no trace of doubt in my mind. I'll agree with you, its possibly slower, however there is still a chance of it being faster than the McLaren.

"Fine, but it still no test made, unless offcourse the testing made by Bugatti themselves.
No magasine has ever been aloved to test the car to verify this numbers.
The fact that it exist a video of the car on a track is not supprising at all, but is does not prove anything....."

The video proves a 2 things:
1. Someone is, infact testing the vehicle
2. Its in production

"The perfomance claim is a pure marketing thing to get the attention they need to survive."

Are you sure? Hey, Paghmani, my lawyer friend, isn't that false advertisement? Get back to me. Thanks!

"GOLD is or at least was the best heat reflector available. The complete engine comartement is covered with it. It was not made for showing off, like it would be if you made your MB star of gold and mounted it on your car....."

True enough. I'll agree with you on this. Point proven.

FThornton666

I was just reading snipits of the thread and saw that the F1 came up so i just posted on it. Also Jeremy Clarkson is a presenter on a british show called Top Gear. Fire up KAzaa and search for Top Gear, you might also get some from Tiff Needell, an ex Formula 3000 driver who also presented on topgear up until 2001 i believe when the show was put on hiatus, and then he joined Fifth Gear which airs on Mondays on Speedchannel, although the shows we get are of the first season right now hopefully soon we will get the new ones.

Also i saw a Grey SL600 on nice rims today, and i though about your car.

Lexani

As for Jeremy and Tiff, I'll look into it. Thanks for the info, however what I really like about your post here, is the SL you saw today. Im actually, truth to be told, a little flattered, if you ever make it to one of our meets, remind me I owe you a ride.

Lexani

"I am hoping someone can clarify my question.
Is AMG part of mercedes or does mercedes go to AMG for tuning?" -Paghmani

So, Paghmani, allow me to further this topic...
AMG. The performance division of Mercedes Benz. For those who must know it stands for Aufrecht, Melcher, Grossapach. AMG stands for performance, qualtiy, and dedication, as you know, or will know, all AMG engines are built by hand, and the creators signature is on the engine cover.

AMG, is as of right now, an extended branch of Mercedes-Benz; exclusively? Yes, indeed. I don't reckon you have ever heard of a SRT-10 Viper AMG, or any other type of exotic vehicles, or even, low-class for that matter, with the badges of AMG on its rear. AMG, however, was not always part of Mercedes. In 1967 it was a group of 3 car-crazy guys, that loved to work on cars, to what is now today, a band of about 580. AMG has victories across the international motorsports boards, and shows no sign of slowing down.

AMG, as you read above, stands for Aufrecht, Aufrecht; thats Hans Werner Aufrecht and his partner Eberhard Melcher, decided to take their last names and put them for their companys logo, the "G" from Grossapach, was put in because it is Hans birthplace, thus forming the now highly-respect, and highly sought after name: AMG.

AMG first started out building race cars, mainly the Mercedes-Benz 300SE and competing in european tour car races. AMG, did not have to wait long for their big break, as 4 years after they got started, AMG won their first MAJOR race; as some of you old-timers may remember watching, the 24-hr race in Spa, Belgium. It took AMG by suprise that their modded 300 SE 6.8 liter managed to beat all odds, furthermore inspiring the small team to ever growing expectations.

There 1971 victory set off a road to future sucess with record setting wins which continues to this day; allow me to start in 1993, however there were more before 93:
* 1993: Roland Asch finishes runner-up in the DTM in an AMG Mercedes. This proves to be the farewell season for the AMG Mercedes 190 E, the winner of 50 races.
* 1994: The new AMG Mercedes C-Class lines up on the starting grid, powered by a six-cylinder engine. Klaus Ludwig wastes no time in taking the DTM crown once again.
* 1995: AMG wins the DTM championship for the third time, as well as the international ITC series in its debut year. The drivers’ champion on each occasion is Bernd Schneider.
* 1996: Bernd Schneider drives an AMG Mercedes to second place in the ITC.
* 1997: The new Mercedes-Benz CLK-GTR, constructed by AMG in only 128 days, takes Bernd Schneider to the inaugural FIA GT Championship title.
* 1998: AMG Mercedes dominates the FIA-GT series, with Klaus Ludwig and Ricardo Zonta winning all eleven races and the drivers’ championship in the CLK-GTR. AMG Mercedes cruises to the constructors’ title.
* 2000: In the first year of the new DTM (German Touring Car Masters) series, AMG clinches the championship title with Bernd Schneider at the wheel of a Mercedes-Benz CLK-DTM.
* 2001: A repeat of the previous year with Bernd Schneider driving his Mercedes-Benz CLK-DTM to the drivers’ championship crown and AMG taking the team title.
* 2002: The excitement of the DTM continues with the new CLK-DTM. Ex-Formula 1 star Jean Alesi makes the switch to Team AMG Mercedes after 201 Grand Prix races.

AMG’s success was to spread well beyond the international motorsport stage. By the 1970s, customers were beginning to develop a taste for more individuality in their cars and the German company used this burgeoning appetite as the platform to develop their business. The transfer of technology from motorsport into series-produced cars already formed part of the company’s philosophy and, by developing impressive technology and first-class quality on the back of its involvement in motor racing, the company started to earn itself quite a reputation. Word quickly spread and the aims AMG had set itself soon made it one of the leaders in the refinement and tuning of premium cars.

AMG started setting techinical milestones that also continue to this day, we'll start in 1997, be aware there were more before than:

* 1997: The Mercedes-Benz C 43 AMG with eight-cylinder engine, 225 kW/306 hp and 410 Nm torque. Also available as an Estate.
* 1997 The Mercedes-Benz E 55 AMG with eight-cylinder engine, 260 kW/354 hp and 530 Nm torque. Also available as an Estate.
* 1998: The Mercedes-Benz CLK 55 AMG with eight-cylinder engine, 255 kW/347 hp and 510 Nm torque. Also available as a Cabriolet.
* 1998: The road-going version of the Mercedes-Benz CLK-GTR with 6.9-l twelve-cylinder engine developing 440 kW/600 hp. Limited to 25 units.
* 1999: The SL 73 AMG with 7.3-l V12 engine developing 386 kW/525 hp and 750 Nm torque.
* 1999: The SL 55 AMG with eight-cylinder engine developing 260 kW/354 hp and 530 Nm torque.
* 1999: The Mercedes-Benz S 55 AMG and G 55 AMG with eight-cylinder engines developing 260 kW/354 hp and 265 kW/360 hp, and 525/530 Nm torque.
* 1999: The Mercedes-Benz ML 55 AMG with eight-cylinder engine, 255 kW/347 hp and 510 Nm torque.
* 1999: Presentation of ”AMG Advanced Mobile Media Systems” in a Mercedes-Benz S 55 AMG with the world’s first 6-channel digital surround-sound system.
* 2000: Mercedes-AMG develops the S-Class Pullman Saloon with DaimlerChrysler.
* 2000: The Mercedes-Benz CL 55 AMG with eight-cylinder engine, 265 kW/360 hp and 530 Nm torque.
* 2000: The Mercedes-Benz E 55 AMG with 4MATIC four-wheel drive. Also available as an Estate.
* 2001: The Mercedes-Benz C 32 and SLK 32 AMG with supercharged V6 engine, 260 kW/354 hp and 440 Nm torque. C 32 AMG Also available as an Estate and Sports Coupé.
* 2001: The Mercedes-Benz S and CL 63 AMG with twelve-cylinder en-gine, 326 kW/444 hp and 620 Nm torque.
* 2001: The ”AMG Advanced Mobile Media” high-class communications and entertainment system is introduced for the Mercedes-Benz S-Class Pullman.
* 2001: The Mercedes-Benz SL 55 AMG with supercharged V8 engine, 368 kW/500 hp and 700 Nm torque.
* 2002: Presentation of the new Mercedes-Benz CLK 55 AMG, E 55 AMG, C 30 CDI AMG, S 55 AMG and CL 55 AMG high-performance cars.

And here is a more in-depth look at its history:

The three-man band becomes a medium-size company

The strong demand for refined and tuned Mercedes-Benz vehicles in the late 1970s led to a steady increase in the number of orders received by AMG. The company outgrew its base in Burgstall and moved to Affalterbach in 1978. AMG developed from the first Mercedes-Benz tuning company to a model for an entire branch of the automotive industry. The company’s impact was evident at the 1981 International Motor Show in Frankfurt/Main, where a total of 176 exhibitors were involved in tuning and accessories for the Mercedes-Benz brand. An important event in the history of AMG was the debut of the Mercedes-Benz 190 in 1983. The compact Saloon soon became the darling of German car tuners and helped AMG to tap into a whole new clientele.

The cooperation agreement with Daimler-Benz AG

One of the key milestones in the history of AMG came in 1990, with the signing of the cooperation agreement with Daimler-Benz AG. Under the terms of the deal, AMG products could now be sold at Mercedes-Benz sales and service outlets and dealers, significantly improving customer ac-ceptance. Further expansion led in 1990 to the opening of ”Werk III”, the third factory, and an increase in the workforce to 400 employees. In 1993 the company unveiled the first co-developed vehicle to be born out of the cooperation agreement: the Mercedes-Benz C 36 AMG. By this time AMG had become sufficiently well known to be recognised as a trademark by the Patent office.

The integration into the DaimlerChrysler Group in 1999

On 1 January 1999, H.W. Aufrecht handed over a majority shareholding in AMG and the company was incorporated into DaimlerChrysler AG. This allowed the newly founded Mercedes-AMG GmbH to benefit to an even greater extent from the Group’s resources and global standing. The highly specialised subsidiary was given overall responsibility for the engine, transmission, chassis, brakes, aerodynamics, interior, design and sales and marketing of AMG-badged cars. The management team consisted of Dr. Wolfgang Bernhard (Chairman) and Domingos Piedade, with Ulrich Bruhnke taking over as Chairman in 2000.

AMG can point to a recent history of enviable success. Over 5000 units of the C 36 AMG were delivered between 1993 and 1997, whilst almost 3000 E 50 AMG vehicles were sold between 1996 and 1997. The E 50 AMG was then succeeded by the E 55 AMG, of which around 12,000 units were produced. However, the best sales year so far has been 2001, with 18,700 AMG vehicles delivered to their owners around the word - more than 1999 and 2000 together.

Mercedes-AMG is represented in the Formula 1 World Championship by the SL 55 AMG (official Safety Car) and C 32 AMG Estate (Medical Car). The company is also involved in international polo as a team sponsor.

In 1999 the motorsport department was absorbed into company founder Hans Werner Aufrecht’s new firm H.W.A. GmbH, located in close proximity to Mercedes-AMG GmbH. Some 170 staff now work together with Mercedes-Benz Motorsport to manage the two companies’ long-standing involvement in the German Touring Car Masters (DTM) race series.

So now, today, AMG, I guess you can say, is both in Formula 1 and in Road Cars, both setting standards that todays supercars have to beat, and its by no means, a low-bench mark, but rather a high-one, where Ferrari and Lamborghini engineers stare at in awe, and try to figure out why their 2500 lb Ferrari cannot beat a 4000lb family sedan, and the answer is the sedan has AMG as its heart.

So, Paghmani, my friend, I hope this brief history of AMG, has helped answer which ever question you had.

Lexino

dont you wonder that there are stupid ppl out there that would race new SLs or AMGs for that fact it just hurts there is so much ignorance out there....i would only race the SL if i had a new viper or somtin then atleast it looks good you know

Lexani

Well, as I have said before, he probably figured me for a SL500, as you know the SL600 and SL500, look identical in almost every aspect, except of course, the SL600 and V12 badging you wouldn't tell the difference, so after seeing my V12 on the side, he probably did not wan't to back down, so he tried. Failed, but tried, and I respect that.

BTW: Awesome S-Class, I wen't to the delear yesterday and wow! I saw an S600, the new ones, and-wow. Thats all I got to say, it has so much room inside! Awesome vehicles, those S-classes.

Erik

Offcourse it is a chance, but personally I do not belive it will. read my comment on your other remark....

1. Yes.
2. Definatly NOT.


The car has been delayed so many time its funny. As I said earlier they strugle with the aerodyamics. It is almost undrivable in very high speeds......

The car was presented in Paris Autoshow 2000, and confirmed for production, with a VW engine. Yes thats right its a VW engine in it, Bugatti is actually a VW sportscar.

It was the previous VW Boss (Ferdiand Piëch) that made the target for a 406 kph( 252 mph) speed, and took the initiative to build the car. (Another one of the VW groups huge errors that last years).


To fix the huge stability problems they has to rework the compete design. That is not going to happend due to time, cost and design issues.
Due to the problems with this car they fired the boss of Bugatti (Chef Karl-Heinz Neumann).

So what they will do (if the car ever find its way to the shops), is to llimit the car to 200 mph.
In that case the car will not need 1001 HP.
Thats info from the present boss of VW group......

The last info I have is that the var will start production in September 2005.

If you still do not belive me, I can give you a German link to the info or you could search yourselves......

Can`t say I like the looks of is either.....

Lexani

Oh... interesting, I have never heard of anyone getting fired for trying to build a supercar and bring fame to a dying company. And, yes, I now believe you, however I must say I'am interested to see what the critics say.

Lexani

Actually a GT3 would lose to a E55. Check the times, even if the driver would have perfect shifts, it would be a no go for him, he would only see the stunning rear of the E55.

Erik

Probably true, but its not gonna be much in it for the E55. The E55 will reach 125 mph in app 14-14,5 sec. The GT3 depending on version will do it from 14,8 down to 13,5 for the fastest GT3 RS. Both having 380 HP and 385NmTorque@5000 rpms.
0-62 mph times goes from mid 4 sec for the GT3 and 4,2 for the GT3.

But the GT3 has to have 100% launch to get that number, and thats not gonna happend every time you race....

CLK430ROB

I have no idea why everyone is pulling proof from this magazine and that magazine. I have no idea why everyone is saying this car is SUPPOSED to do this and have been TESTED to do that. No one really cares!

The point of this thread is about Lexani's SL600 against a 911 with turbo badging, and thats basically it. Has nothing to do with any OTHER car mentioned his this 12+ pages thread.

Now, these 2 cars are VERY similar in 0-60 times, which is basically off by 0.1-0.3 seconds. You have any idea how close that is for a non-professional racecar driver?!? Im not saying that Lexani or that porsche driver, cannot drive. But on the streets, and with these two cars, its anyones race. The porsche driver just got his porsche, and im pretty damn sure he dont even know how to handle that beast, let alone race it. That will give lexani a huge advantage as lexani' is VERY familiar with his car. With that being said, I can believe that Lexani may have left him in the dust. Its all about the driver in my book. Give Dale Earnhardt Jr. a toyota camry and put my *** in a Dodge Viper, I bet he'd kick my *** ... while im sitting there fish tailing, or even worse, misshift and stall the car. Then you have to attest to the fact that they are on public roads, obstacles, looking our for pedestrians, etc. Everything factors in. Dunno, my 2 cents. Great Race!

Rob

Improviz

....what people don't seem to realize is that, particularly with the high-powered uber-cars of today, not just anyone can plop themselves down behind the wheel and handily duplicate the magazines' published times. In fact, from what I've observed both at the strip and on the street, in a stock car, especially one tested in the 14's or better, with a manual transmission, the average driver isn't going to hit those times.

I went to the strip about a year ago, and there was a fellow there with a 996 six-speed. Now, if you read the mag reports, he should have been running 13.5's or better, but the best time I saw him run was a 13.9x, and he was normally hitting in the 14's. And this wasn't an isolated case...I've observed this time and time again.

This is one reason why the car mags typically give a "significant difference", by which they mean that if two cars are within this window in their tests (typically 0.3 or so), the race can (and will) go either way.

And the faster the car, the tougher it is to launch, time and execute shifts, etc. That redline is coming up very fast in first gear in those babies, and it's easy to screw up and hit a rev limiter, at which point the manual driver is toast.

This is where the AMGs have a huge advantage: that auto will time and execute the shifts perfectly, every time...no rev-limiter hits, missed shifts, etc. to worry about. Only tricky part is the launch, but the newer ones' traction control is better. But from a rolling-start race, fuggeddabout it...very, very few cars are going to get by these things.

In my experience, if you have two cars whose mag times are within about 1/2 second of one another where one is an auto and one is a manual, the auto will win in most cases--but not all.

Lexani

Well, the reason everyone is pulling proof out of the magazine, rob my dear friend, is because everyone here hates to believe that there dear Porsche lost a "porky" SL600, with "bling bling" wheels, and they love to be presistent in telling me about what "could" have, but did not happen. Thats what makes this thread bad, in your opinion. I don't think this thread is really bad, I think some people have learned a thing or two in this 10 page plus, arguement.

Its true, a number of things played in the outcome of this race, however after all was said and done, Mercedes won. So, now Porsche enthusiasts (what are they doing here?) start this big arguement that my story is and that the Porsche could have beaten me... and when proven and the person will still not admit to it.

Lexani

Excellent points, points that Porsche and other high-exotic vehicles in todays markets, such as Ferrari, Lamborghini, Aston Martin, and so on, hate to admit to. Iam willing to admit a Cobra beat a CL65, why can't other people admit to facts?

Erik

Good point, agree 100%. When cars this close meet up at an random streetrace its the drivers race......