Killed a new Cobra (badly)
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2004
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From: San Diego
2002 C32 Black/Charcoal
Boy, that was way tooooo eeeeeeassssy. You should take some lessons from M&M and keep arguing your point until everyone is calling you a ************* troll!
To answer your question regarding boost, I think that my C32 is running about 17 lbs with the Evo pulley.
Don't get me wrong, I like the Cobra. For the money and modability, it is hard to beat. I just don't see a stock one beating an SL55 or a supercharged 210 E55
To answer your question regarding boost, I think that my C32 is running about 17 lbs with the Evo pulley.
Don't get me wrong, I like the Cobra. For the money and modability, it is hard to beat. I just don't see a stock one beating an SL55 or a supercharged 210 E55
Super Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 533
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From: Los Angeles, Ca
2016 GLC300 sport
Originally Posted by Vomit
Boy, that was way tooooo eeeeeeassssy. You should take some lessons from M&M and keep arguing your point until everyone is calling you a ************* troll!
To answer your question regarding boost, I think that my C32 is running about 17 lbs with the Evo pulley.
Don't get me wrong, I like the Cobra. For the money and modability, it is hard to beat. I just don't see a stock one beating an SL55 or a supercharged 210 E55
To answer your question regarding boost, I think that my C32 is running about 17 lbs with the Evo pulley.
Don't get me wrong, I like the Cobra. For the money and modability, it is hard to beat. I just don't see a stock one beating an SL55 or a supercharged 210 E55
Just remember its not all power. Weight, gearing and aerodynamics play a big part in racing too.
Have a nice day.
Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 232
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From: Aliso Viejo CA.
2010 E350 SP / Honda Crosstour / prior vehicles - C32 modded / C300 modded / Lincoln LS modded
Get out of the MB Forum
Dude, go buy a Saleen or something, then I'll ill give you props. Ford Engineering is poor. I'm sure your car is fast, but you don't see me in some Ford forum because I could give at rats ***. It's a night and day difference. And for arguments sake it's just silly. When Mods come into play, its basically how much money are you going to drop, and sorry most of us MB members have a lot more money to drop. Take your dads car for a spin. It's a different world.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2004
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From: San Diego
2002 C32 Black/Charcoal
Originally Posted by dgussin1
if you are dying to know. I beat a 360cs on the freeway the other day too. If you dont believe me look him up on ferrari chat. It was yellow with the plate "360CS F1" or something like that.
Just remember its not all power. Weight, gearing and aerodynamics play a big part in racing too.
Have a nice day.
Just remember its not all power. Weight, gearing and aerodynamics play a big part in racing too.
Have a nice day.
Super Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 533
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From: Los Angeles, Ca
2016 GLC300 sport
Originally Posted by Vomit
You may have noticed that my reference was to a S-T-O-C-K Cobra, and its relative acceleration to a supercharged E or SL55 (or a 360 Ferrari, for that matter). You are not implying that a S-T-O-C-K Cobra will take a 360CS in a straight acceleration run, are you?
My car was nearly stock at the time. All I had was an air intake and a catback exhaust and I put a lot of car lengths on him.
Stock cobras run deep into the 12's in the 1/4 mile. I don't even think a 360 could hit a 12.99.
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From: Orange County, CA
W124's
Also keep in mind that Ferrari's are meant to race just on straights, take it to the track and you'll definately be lefted in the dust.
As you can see, the only thing American cars are good for, for example Fords, are straightaways, that's mainly majority of their power is useful.
As you can see, the only thing American cars are good for, for example Fords, are straightaways, that's mainly majority of their power is useful.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,645
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From: San Diego
2002 C32 Black/Charcoal
Originally Posted by dgussin1
Yeah, I was.
My car was nearly stock at the time. All I had was an air intake and a catback exhaust and I put a lot of car lengths on him.
Stock cobras run deep into the 12's in the 1/4 mile. I don't even think a 360 could hit a 12.99.
My car was nearly stock at the time. All I had was an air intake and a catback exhaust and I put a lot of car lengths on him.
Stock cobras run deep into the 12's in the 1/4 mile. I don't even think a 360 could hit a 12.99.
Do you even know what a 360CS is? It is the Ferrari 360 Modena Challenge Stradale, which improves upon the 360 Modena by increasing HP to 425 and reducing weight by roughly 500 lbs. The 360CS runs the 1/4 in 12 seconds flat at 117 MPH.
You claim that your stock 2004 Convertible Cobra has been documented to run the 1/4 mile "deep into the twelves." Would you be so kind as to tell us which magazine obtained this result? Please do not cite to Cobra owners' claimed times. I would like to see an independent test result, such as C&D, MT, or R&T, testing a convertible Cobra.
Super Member
Joined: Mar 2004
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From: Los Angeles, Ca
2016 GLC300 sport
Originally Posted by Vomit
O.K., now I know that you are either (1) full of krap, or (2) on crack.
Do you even know what a 360CS is? It is the Ferrari 360 Modena Challenge Stradale, which improves upon the 360 Modena by increasing HP to 425 and reducing weight by roughly 500 lbs. The 360CS runs the 1/4 in 12 seconds flat at 117 MPH.
You claim that your stock 2004 Convertible Cobra has been documented to run the 1/4 mile "deep into the twelves." Would you be so kind as to tell us which magazine obtained this result? Please do not cite to Cobra owners' claimed times. I would like to see an independent test result, such as C&D, MT, or R&T, testing a convertible Cobra.
Do you even know what a 360CS is? It is the Ferrari 360 Modena Challenge Stradale, which improves upon the 360 Modena by increasing HP to 425 and reducing weight by roughly 500 lbs. The 360CS runs the 1/4 in 12 seconds flat at 117 MPH.
You claim that your stock 2004 Convertible Cobra has been documented to run the 1/4 mile "deep into the twelves." Would you be so kind as to tell us which magazine obtained this result? Please do not cite to Cobra owners' claimed times. I would like to see an independent test result, such as C&D, MT, or R&T, testing a convertible Cobra.
BTW I have seen several regular 360's at the track and not one could do better than 13.3. I couldn't imagine a cs being 1.3 seconds faster, could you, Mr. Internet magazine racer? :p
Just fyi, you can see here for my ferrari chat thread. Oh and IMHTGO the sl55 would have torched the 360 cs. http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47065
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Super Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 533
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From: Los Angeles, Ca
2016 GLC300 sport
Originally Posted by ChrisDPham
Also keep in mind that Ferrari's are meant to race just on straights, take it to the track and you'll definately be lefted in the dust.
As you can see, the only thing American cars are good for, for example Fords, are straightaways, that's mainly majority of their power is useful.
As you can see, the only thing American cars are good for, for example Fords, are straightaways, that's mainly majority of their power is useful.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2004
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From: San Diego
2002 C32 Black/Charcoal
And you, my friend, are "reading challenged."
Allow me to ask you again: Which reputable magazine (C&D, MT, R&T) has ever run a S-T-O-C-K S/C convertible Cobra "deep into the twelves?"
There are people on the E46 M3 forum claiming to run mid twelves with their stock M3s.
There are people on EVERY forum claiming to run highly-improbable times with their "stock" cars. I really don't care whether they edit magazines, shovel shiit, or probe arseholes for a living. . . I do not believe them. My approach may occasionally mean that I disbelieve someone who really is telling the truth and just happens to be blessed with a partiuclarly fast sample of their model of car. Oh well.
Let me put it to you this way. Do you know anyone with a S-T-O-C-K S/C 2004 Cobra Convertible who would be willing to bet his or her pinkslip against a 360cs, E55K, or SL55? I doubt it
I will give you this much: If the 360cs driver against whom you raced was a complete hack, you could have beat him with your Cobra. Allow me to give you a brief lesson on the F1 tranny:
The F1 tranny is not like other "manumatics." Instead, it is a manual transmission (no torque convertor) with the clutch and shifts activated by two paddles located immediately behind the steering wheel. There is a mode switch which controls whether shifts will occur automatically, or whether they will only occur if the driver pushes one of the paddles. Assuming that the 360cs driver was in "sport" mode (which will not shift unless the paddles are pushed) and that he chose to try to race you in 6th or 5th gear, you would beat him. I would guess that this is probably what happened.
Remember, the 360cs weighs roughly 2800 lbs, and is powered by 425 HP. Your lightly-modded Cobra probably had roughly the same HP, but was pushing what, 700 lbs more? And this doesn't even factor the aerodynamics of you having the top down!
Allow me to ask you again: Which reputable magazine (C&D, MT, R&T) has ever run a S-T-O-C-K S/C convertible Cobra "deep into the twelves?"
There are people on the E46 M3 forum claiming to run mid twelves with their stock M3s.
There are people on EVERY forum claiming to run highly-improbable times with their "stock" cars. I really don't care whether they edit magazines, shovel shiit, or probe arseholes for a living. . . I do not believe them. My approach may occasionally mean that I disbelieve someone who really is telling the truth and just happens to be blessed with a partiuclarly fast sample of their model of car. Oh well.
Let me put it to you this way. Do you know anyone with a S-T-O-C-K S/C 2004 Cobra Convertible who would be willing to bet his or her pinkslip against a 360cs, E55K, or SL55? I doubt it
I will give you this much: If the 360cs driver against whom you raced was a complete hack, you could have beat him with your Cobra. Allow me to give you a brief lesson on the F1 tranny:
The F1 tranny is not like other "manumatics." Instead, it is a manual transmission (no torque convertor) with the clutch and shifts activated by two paddles located immediately behind the steering wheel. There is a mode switch which controls whether shifts will occur automatically, or whether they will only occur if the driver pushes one of the paddles. Assuming that the 360cs driver was in "sport" mode (which will not shift unless the paddles are pushed) and that he chose to try to race you in 6th or 5th gear, you would beat him. I would guess that this is probably what happened.
Remember, the 360cs weighs roughly 2800 lbs, and is powered by 425 HP. Your lightly-modded Cobra probably had roughly the same HP, but was pushing what, 700 lbs more? And this doesn't even factor the aerodynamics of you having the top down!
Super Member
Joined: Jul 2002
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From: Bay Area, CA
'97 MB E420 Sport/'88 MR2
People here actually believe 1/4 mile times from "reputable" magazines (C&D, MT, R&T)? BWHAHAHAHHAHAHAH! Those guys can't drive shiza! They have no clue and are not even familiar with cars they test. They take the cars they get maybe 3 times down the track for the first time and that's it..best time goes on next month's issue..HAHAHA
Here is some of the Cobra times and mods listed...from people who own their cars and know how to drive them:
http://www.svtperformance.com/12sec_list.html
Those guys can't drive shiza! They have no clue and are not even familiar with cars they test. They take the cars they get maybe 3 times down the track for the first time and that's it..best time goes on next month's issue..HAHAHAHere is some of the Cobra times and mods listed...from people who own their cars and know how to drive them:
http://www.svtperformance.com/12sec_list.html
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,645
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From: San Diego
2002 C32 Black/Charcoal
I have no doubt that the magazine test drivers are far from perfect. However, they are believeable, which is more than I can say for many individuals who claim amazing times for their cars. Between the two options, I would rather focus on "honest but maybe lame" (magazine testers) than "honesty unknown" (forum posters).
Certain individuals have very strange ideas about the definition of the word "stock." In my book, stock does not mean "racing gas," "seats removed," "drag slicks," "aftermarket airfilters," "rear tire pressure lowered," "toluene/xylene in gas," "ice packs on the intake," "spare tire removed," "lightweight engine oil," and any number of other little cheats that people can do to improve the 1/4 mile times of their cars.
Don't even get me started on the definition of "pretty much stock."
Certain individuals have very strange ideas about the definition of the word "stock." In my book, stock does not mean "racing gas," "seats removed," "drag slicks," "aftermarket airfilters," "rear tire pressure lowered," "toluene/xylene in gas," "ice packs on the intake," "spare tire removed," "lightweight engine oil," and any number of other little cheats that people can do to improve the 1/4 mile times of their cars.
Don't even get me started on the definition of "pretty much stock."
Super Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 533
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From: Los Angeles, Ca
2016 GLC300 sport
Originally Posted by Vomit
And you, my friend, are "reading challenged."
Allow me to ask you again: Which reputable magazine (C&D, MT, R&T) has ever run a S-T-O-C-K S/C convertible Cobra "deep into the twelves?"
There are people on the E46 M3 forum claiming to run mid twelves with their stock M3s.
There are people on EVERY forum claiming to run highly-improbable times with their "stock" cars. I really don't care whether they edit magazines, shovel shiit, or probe arseholes for a living. . . I do not believe them. My approach may occasionally mean that I disbelieve someone who really is telling the truth and just happens to be blessed with a partiuclarly fast sample of their model of car. Oh well.
Let me put it to you this way. Do you know anyone with a S-T-O-C-K S/C 2004 Cobra Convertible who would be willing to bet his or her pinkslip against a 360cs, E55K, or SL55? I doubt it
I will give you this much: If the 360cs driver against whom you raced was a complete hack, you could have beat him with your Cobra. Allow me to give you a brief lesson on the F1 tranny:
The F1 tranny is not like other "manumatics." Instead, it is a manual transmission (no torque convertor) with the clutch and shifts activated by two paddles located immediately behind the steering wheel. There is a mode switch which controls whether shifts will occur automatically, or whether they will only occur if the driver pushes one of the paddles. Assuming that the 360cs driver was in "sport" mode (which will not shift unless the paddles are pushed) and that he chose to try to race you in 6th or 5th gear, you would beat him. I would guess that this is probably what happened.
Remember, the 360cs weighs roughly 2800 lbs, and is powered by 425 HP. Your lightly-modded Cobra probably had roughly the same HP, but was pushing what, 700 lbs more? And this doesn't even factor the aerodynamics of you having the top down!
Allow me to ask you again: Which reputable magazine (C&D, MT, R&T) has ever run a S-T-O-C-K S/C convertible Cobra "deep into the twelves?"
There are people on the E46 M3 forum claiming to run mid twelves with their stock M3s.
There are people on EVERY forum claiming to run highly-improbable times with their "stock" cars. I really don't care whether they edit magazines, shovel shiit, or probe arseholes for a living. . . I do not believe them. My approach may occasionally mean that I disbelieve someone who really is telling the truth and just happens to be blessed with a partiuclarly fast sample of their model of car. Oh well.
Let me put it to you this way. Do you know anyone with a S-T-O-C-K S/C 2004 Cobra Convertible who would be willing to bet his or her pinkslip against a 360cs, E55K, or SL55? I doubt it
I will give you this much: If the 360cs driver against whom you raced was a complete hack, you could have beat him with your Cobra. Allow me to give you a brief lesson on the F1 tranny:
The F1 tranny is not like other "manumatics." Instead, it is a manual transmission (no torque convertor) with the clutch and shifts activated by two paddles located immediately behind the steering wheel. There is a mode switch which controls whether shifts will occur automatically, or whether they will only occur if the driver pushes one of the paddles. Assuming that the 360cs driver was in "sport" mode (which will not shift unless the paddles are pushed) and that he chose to try to race you in 6th or 5th gear, you would beat him. I would guess that this is probably what happened.
Remember, the 360cs weighs roughly 2800 lbs, and is powered by 425 HP. Your lightly-modded Cobra probably had roughly the same HP, but was pushing what, 700 lbs more? And this doesn't even factor the aerodynamics of you having the top down!
I would bet slips against a drag race with a stock for stock CS. I wouldn't with a 55K motor stock for stock. The 55K will smoke a CS. The Cobra will beat a CS (coupe or vert) not by too much, but enough. This is stupid to go back and forth with you because you obviously know nothing about cobras. I am sure you have no idea that there are tons of 03-04 cobras with bolt ons in the 10's in the 1/4 and more than a handful in the 9's and a couple in the 8's. Here take a look at this(just a FEW examples of 03-04 cobra times): http://www.modularfords.com/forums/s...ead.php?t=7081
Please dont compare an e46 to a cobra. Stock cobras have about 370whp compared to 240whp for an m3. So do the math. Do you think a cobra could run 12's with that much power compared to running 12's with a m3?
Oh and the CS weights just over 3,000 lbs and has about 200 ft lbs of torque less than my car at the time of the race. I had about 440 ft lbs to 273 ft lbs, now I have about 650 ft lbs.
And the guy was definately racing, he downshifted and went. We raced a few times with the same outcome everytime. I doubt the guy doesn't know how to drive, but anythings possible.
If you would like to challenge me to a race, I'll go up against anything.
Super Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 533
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From: Los Angeles, Ca
2016 GLC300 sport
Originally Posted by Vomit
I have no doubt that the magazine test drivers are far from perfect. However, they are believeable, which is more than I can say for many individuals who claim amazing times for their cars. Between the two options, I would rather focus on "honest but maybe lame" (magazine testers) than "honesty unknown" (forum posters).
Certain individuals have very strange ideas about the definition of the word "stock." In my book, stock does not mean "racing gas," "seats removed," "drag slicks," "aftermarket airfilters," "rear tire pressure lowered," "toluene/xylene in gas," "ice packs on the intake," "spare tire removed," "lightweight engine oil," and any number of other little cheats that people can do to improve the 1/4 mile times of their cars.
Don't even get me started on the definition of "pretty much stock."
Certain individuals have very strange ideas about the definition of the word "stock." In my book, stock does not mean "racing gas," "seats removed," "drag slicks," "aftermarket airfilters," "rear tire pressure lowered," "toluene/xylene in gas," "ice packs on the intake," "spare tire removed," "lightweight engine oil," and any number of other little cheats that people can do to improve the 1/4 mile times of their cars.
Don't even get me started on the definition of "pretty much stock."
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,645
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From: San Diego
2002 C32 Black/Charcoal
Originally Posted by dgussin1
so a journalist who has probably never driven the car before is more believable than an owner of the car that drives it everyday? you're a moron dude.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,645
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From: San Diego
2002 C32 Black/Charcoal
"I would bet slips against a drag race with a stock for stock CS."
Of course you would. You are betting a rapidly-depriciating $30K "asset" to maybe win an appreciating $200K asset. What's to lose?
Of course you would. You are betting a rapidly-depriciating $30K "asset" to maybe win an appreciating $200K asset. What's to lose?
Super Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 533
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From: Los Angeles, Ca
2016 GLC300 sport
Originally Posted by Vomit
"I would bet slips against a drag race with a stock for stock CS."
Of course you would. You are betting a rapidly-depriciating $30K "asset" to maybe win an appreciating $200K asset. What's to lose?
Of course you would. You are betting a rapidly-depriciating $30K "asset" to maybe win an appreciating $200K asset. What's to lose?
And I don't know what planet you're on, but the 360 platform is depreciating extremely fast due to the 430 coming out and if you figure out things percentage wise I am sure my car holds it value well compaired to it.
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 533
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From: Los Angeles, Ca
2016 GLC300 sport
Originally Posted by Vomit
I have a stock 1973 AMC Pacer that runs low 11s in the quarter mile. Prove me wrong.
Super Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 508
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From: Bay Area, CA
'97 MB E420 Sport/'88 MR2
ok ok..
heck, a stock GT with these bolt ons can run 11s...
http://home.comcast.net/~wicked46/jb051199HQ.WMV
Diablo Programer
Bassani X pipe
Axle back Bassani
Underdrive pulleys
Centerforce Clutch
Cyn-R-G Flywheel
Motive 4.56 gears
Bogart D10 rims
M/T Drags
C and L intake and Mass air meter
H and R lowering Springs
Metco Control arms
Strange Shocks
heck, a stock GT with these bolt ons can run 11s...
http://home.comcast.net/~wicked46/jb051199HQ.WMV
Diablo Programer
Bassani X pipe
Axle back Bassani
Underdrive pulleys
Centerforce Clutch
Cyn-R-G Flywheel
Motive 4.56 gears
Bogart D10 rims
M/T Drags
C and L intake and Mass air meter
H and R lowering Springs
Metco Control arms
Strange Shocks
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 13,489
Likes: 96
haters crazy
What a coincidence, I also have a 1973 AMC pacer that runs 11's! But mine has the "type R" emblem so mine is faster! Don't believe me, check my sig.
Last edited by blackbenzz; Mar 23, 2005 at 10:48 AM.
Banned
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Posts: 2,706
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From: NJ
Bantha
Most Benz owners get extremely annoyed when they are beaten by a domestic, any domestic. Their ususal response is "At the end of the day, I still have a Benz, and you have a <blank>! Fill in the blank with Chevy, Ford, Pontiac etc.....
Yes, its a lame repsonse but it does provide some comfort for the loser. I've used it when my MB gets beaten.
Any non-AMG Benz will not beat a Cobra unless the Ford is towing a boat up a hill.
Yes, its a lame repsonse but it does provide some comfort for the loser. I've used it when my MB gets beaten.
Any non-AMG Benz will not beat a Cobra unless the Ford is towing a boat up a hill.
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From: Fountain Valley, California
Whatever keys I grab first...
Originally Posted by tuscanraider
Most Benz owners get extremely annoyed when they are beaten by a domestic, any domestic. Their ususal response is "At the end of the day, I still have a Benz, and you have a <blank>! Fill in the blank with Chevy, Ford, Pontiac etc.....
Yes, its a lame repsonse but it does provide some comfort for the loser. I've used it when my MB gets beaten.
Any non-AMG Benz will not beat a Cobra unless the Ford is towing a boat up a hill.
Yes, its a lame repsonse but it does provide some comfort for the loser. I've used it when my MB gets beaten.
Any non-AMG Benz will not beat a Cobra unless the Ford is towing a boat up a hill.
"My Modded Ford, can beat your stock Benz" It would seem obvious that in most cases modded vehicles will overtake those that are stock-- Im sure you can agree with me on this. In some cases though...
http://aserverjustfor.us/videos/z28k...cobravsE55.wmv
Even with mods a "Cobra" cannot outrun a stock Benz. You can even check the rematch race. You know, I pretty sure you've seen this video, but you like every other blind Ford patriot fails to respond to the video.
An E500 can keep up with a Mustang GT. Now before you jump on me with the "Its not a Cobra" excuse, lets compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges.
V6 Mustang = E320 Competitor
Mustang GT = E500 Competitor
Mutang Cobra = E55 Competitor
Top of the line, vs. Top of the line. Would you not agree? Or is the only way Ford beats Mercedes-- by taking their top of the line and matching it against middle-class Mercedes'? Ford cant stand playing fair it seems.
Guess not.
Best Regards,
John
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,706
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From: NJ
Bantha
Originally Posted by Lexani
Im sorry dear friend, but I fail reconigze how you can take pride in saying:
"My Modded Ford, can beat your stock Benz" It would seem obvious that in most cases modded vehicles will overtake those that are stock-- Im sure you can agree with me on this. In some cases though...
http://aserverjustfor.us/videos/z28k...cobravsE55.wmv
Even with mods a "Cobra" cannot outrun a stock Benz. You can even check the rematch race. You know, I pretty sure you've seen this video, but you like every other blind Ford patriot fails to respond to the video.
An E500 can keep up with a Mustang GT. Now before you jump on me with the "Its not a Cobra" excuse, lets compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges.
V6 Mustang = E320 Competitor
Mustang GT = E500 Competitor
Mutang Cobra = E55 Competitor
Top of the line, vs. Top of the line. Would you not agree? Or is the only way Ford beats Mercedes-- by taking their top of the line and matching it against middle-class Mercedes'? Ford cant stand playing fair it seems.
Guess not.
Best Regards,
John
"My Modded Ford, can beat your stock Benz" It would seem obvious that in most cases modded vehicles will overtake those that are stock-- Im sure you can agree with me on this. In some cases though...
http://aserverjustfor.us/videos/z28k...cobravsE55.wmv
Even with mods a "Cobra" cannot outrun a stock Benz. You can even check the rematch race. You know, I pretty sure you've seen this video, but you like every other blind Ford patriot fails to respond to the video.
An E500 can keep up with a Mustang GT. Now before you jump on me with the "Its not a Cobra" excuse, lets compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges.
V6 Mustang = E320 Competitor
Mustang GT = E500 Competitor
Mutang Cobra = E55 Competitor
Top of the line, vs. Top of the line. Would you not agree? Or is the only way Ford beats Mercedes-- by taking their top of the line and matching it against middle-class Mercedes'? Ford cant stand playing fair it seems.
Guess not.
Best Regards,
John
This bothers people like you. I guess its too hard on the ego, I understand.
Also the GT would be more comparable to the CLK500 not E500. The E is a sedan.
