CDI Fuel Freeze up in Winter
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 898
Likes: 9
From: Woodstock, IL
His 2019 RAM Cummins Turbo Diesel Laramie; Her's 2007 ML320 CDI P3; Mine BMW R1200R
CDI Fuel Freeze up in Winter
What a morning.
I parked my CDI outside for 2 days with temps holding -21F. When I tried to start the ML today at 6am, it just cranked really slow. After 4 or 5 attempts, I tried the charger box, but same result.
Turns out the fuel I filled up with 2 days ago froze/gelled in the lines.
MB Roadside came but could not jump it either. The guy claimed that I was his 4th diesel customer for the day and no one could be started.
Later, saw a post on another forum that someone was told by a MB CDI engineer that gelling/freezing of the CDI's was a non issue, as the fuel is pressurized from the tank to the pump, and from the pump to the injectors the pressure is too high. Not sure what to make of that, as when I called my service adviser, he told me that all of his new diesels had to be pushed inside service to start them.
When I got home, I got my daughter's hairdryer and "thawed" the fuel filter and injection pump. Half hour later, it fired right up!!!
I guess the CDI's can gell... (MB engineers are you taking notes??)
A co worker (and my service adviser) advised me to always run an additive in the fuel for winter. Anyone else tried this? I got one by Shaeffer Oils called Winter 2000.
http://www.schaefferoil.com/diesel_t...00_winter.html
Any tips or advice welcome.
I parked my CDI outside for 2 days with temps holding -21F. When I tried to start the ML today at 6am, it just cranked really slow. After 4 or 5 attempts, I tried the charger box, but same result.
Turns out the fuel I filled up with 2 days ago froze/gelled in the lines.
MB Roadside came but could not jump it either. The guy claimed that I was his 4th diesel customer for the day and no one could be started.
Later, saw a post on another forum that someone was told by a MB CDI engineer that gelling/freezing of the CDI's was a non issue, as the fuel is pressurized from the tank to the pump, and from the pump to the injectors the pressure is too high. Not sure what to make of that, as when I called my service adviser, he told me that all of his new diesels had to be pushed inside service to start them.
When I got home, I got my daughter's hairdryer and "thawed" the fuel filter and injection pump. Half hour later, it fired right up!!!
I guess the CDI's can gell... (MB engineers are you taking notes??)
A co worker (and my service adviser) advised me to always run an additive in the fuel for winter. Anyone else tried this? I got one by Shaeffer Oils called Winter 2000.
http://www.schaefferoil.com/diesel_t...00_winter.html
Any tips or advice welcome.
Junior Member
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 42
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From: central IL
08 GL 450 / 09 ml 320 / 10 ml350
try this no problems so far
http://www.powerservice.com/dfs/
http://www.powerservice.com/dfs/
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2002
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From: Atlanta, GA USA
2000 MB G500 NMLE, 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI Prestige
Before I would use any diesel additive, I'd contact the manufacturer to be sure that it is low sulfur, low phosphorus and low ash; and that it will not damage the DPF or, in the case of the 2009's, the BluTec catalyst.
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 898
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From: Woodstock, IL
His 2019 RAM Cummins Turbo Diesel Laramie; Her's 2007 ML320 CDI P3; Mine BMW R1200R
The chemical properties of the additives were my biggest concern, but then I realized that it calls for 4 ounces to 26 Gallons. (+-) I am going to assume that at that dilution rate, the chance of DPF damage "hopefully" should be a non issue.
Both the Schaefer and the PS claim to be formulated for ULSD engines, so I am hoping for the best, as yet again I become an involuntary test subject for Mercedes.
Also, in the GL forum, the Online Owners Manual sticky advises to use some additive in the CDI's to avoid freeze up. They advise that if freeze up occurs, the fuel system will need to be reheated by pushing the car into a heated garage.
I challenge the person who wrote that to push a CDI that is stuck in -20F weather anywhere.
Both the Schaefer and the PS claim to be formulated for ULSD engines, so I am hoping for the best, as yet again I become an involuntary test subject for Mercedes.
Also, in the GL forum, the Online Owners Manual sticky advises to use some additive in the CDI's to avoid freeze up. They advise that if freeze up occurs, the fuel system will need to be reheated by pushing the car into a heated garage.
I challenge the person who wrote that to push a CDI that is stuck in -20F weather anywhere.
Newbie
Joined: Oct 2008
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ml320CDI
Well same thing happen to me this morning in NJ at (+5*F) my 320cdi did not start.
Cranks ok but big noise from fuel pump . Diesel gells in the lines for shure , car towed to Dealer. This is not suposed to happen they tell me.
Cranks ok but big noise from fuel pump . Diesel gells in the lines for shure , car towed to Dealer. This is not suposed to happen they tell me.
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From: Atlanta, GA USA
2000 MB G500 NMLE, 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI Prestige
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Junior Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 51
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From: Calgary AB Canada
2013 E350 4matic coupe, 2013 C300 4 matic
I live in Calgary Alberta and have an '08 CDI. Over Christmas we had 2 weeks of -25degrees C. My ML sat outside the whole time and started every morning without a problem. I think they must put a winter additive in the fuel here, I wonder what they use?
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MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2002
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From: Atlanta, GA USA
2000 MB G500 NMLE, 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI Prestige
Probably kerosene. There is most certainly a difference between winter and summer formulations.
Junior Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 26
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From: CT
07 ML320 CDI, 07 997 C4 Cab, 11 E550 4Matic
Mine gelled and would not start at -9F on Saturday morning. It started and ran for a few seconds and died from fuel starvation. I could hear the fuel pump whining. Later in the day, at about +10F, I tried again and it started right up and ran normally. However, the CEL is on. Does anyone know if this will clear after a few starts? Thanks
Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 105
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From: NJ
GL320
My CEL cleared the next day. Have an appointment at dealer to have everything checked later in the week. Info dealer gave me is that there is no approved MB USA solution yet, they are working on it.
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 898
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From: Woodstock, IL
His 2019 RAM Cummins Turbo Diesel Laramie; Her's 2007 ML320 CDI P3; Mine BMW R1200R
My CEL also cleared by the next day. I think it clears after 4-5 starts in this case. Also have an appointment with the dealer as a check up and oil change etc.
So far I have been using the additives mentioned and no issues. It is still around +10F here, so hard to tell if it is the "warm weather" or the additive.
I was poking around in www.startekinfo.com and noticed there is a DTB for this. It looks like MBUSA is tracking the issue. The form asks the tech to report whether the car was outside and for how long, what is the temp at the time of problem, when and where the last refuel was done, CEL codes etc. It's listed under "Diesel engine cold start conditions.", dated 01/06/2009.
jsmith18, in the prior winters mine had started daily no problem, but this time I did not use the car for 2 days, and had just refueled from a station that had a suspiciously low price...
Would guess they got a batch of summer fuel for cheap and needed the sales???
So far I have been using the additives mentioned and no issues. It is still around +10F here, so hard to tell if it is the "warm weather" or the additive.
I was poking around in www.startekinfo.com and noticed there is a DTB for this. It looks like MBUSA is tracking the issue. The form asks the tech to report whether the car was outside and for how long, what is the temp at the time of problem, when and where the last refuel was done, CEL codes etc. It's listed under "Diesel engine cold start conditions.", dated 01/06/2009.
jsmith18, in the prior winters mine had started daily no problem, but this time I did not use the car for 2 days, and had just refueled from a station that had a suspiciously low price...
Would guess they got a batch of summer fuel for cheap and needed the sales???
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 898
Likes: 9
From: Woodstock, IL
His 2019 RAM Cummins Turbo Diesel Laramie; Her's 2007 ML320 CDI P3; Mine BMW R1200R
Try this link. It should take you to the DTB mentioned above.
http://www.startekinfo.com/StarTek/S...tedDocId=10275
http://www.startekinfo.com/StarTek/S...tedDocId=10275
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From: Atlanta, GA USA
2000 MB G500 NMLE, 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI Prestige
Here's the link:
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/01/1...-turns-to-goo/
and here:
http://www.startribune.com/local/sou...aPc:_Yyc:aUUsZ
Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 207
Likes: 1
ML320CDI 2008 all options inc air suspension
I ''feel'' for the folks who live in areas that only once in awhile get a really cold snap. The fuel distributors don't switch to ''winter diesel'' like they do in areas of the country that routinely get long cold winters. Summer diesel turns to something resembling soft wax when its cold enough. All modern diesel vehicles have fuel heaters and recirculate back to the fuel tank once running but that doesnt help if you cant get your vehicle started in the first place. Other than adding some conditioner to stop the problem the only thing that can be done is to make sure the block heater is plugged in which in turn will keep the fuel filter and lines warm enough to get you running. After that the system should heat the fuel enough to keep you going. December was close to -30 here practically all month and my CDI started and ran fine as ditributors around here begin sending ''winter fuel'' to the stations in October. For those who don't like the idea of using an additive I think you will find there are several on the market specifically for low ash and ulsd. applications and as long as you follow the intructions I am sure your ML will be very happy. The only drawback to ''winter diesel'' is that you don't get quite as good of mileage, only a tiny drop , but worth it to know that you will keep running.
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 898
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From: Woodstock, IL
His 2019 RAM Cummins Turbo Diesel Laramie; Her's 2007 ML320 CDI P3; Mine BMW R1200R
Dutch, not sure what it was. No pump posting to say it was bio. I normally buy from that station without issues, as they are about $.04 or so cheaper. This time when I filled up, they were about $.35 cheaper.. Still inclined to believe they may have gotten a batch of summer fuel, or bio diesel for a cheap price, and passed it on to us to boost sales. I had to wait in line to fill up that day. Lots of semi's and pickup were filling up there also. Feel it for those kids.
Vernl, unfortunately for us US owners, no block heater available by MB. I would have to go aftermarket. Canada and most of the world gets one though.
I have had the winter diesel before and there was a slight drop in mileage. Believe me, I will take that any day over a no start occurrence in -20F.
Vernl, unfortunately for us US owners, no block heater available by MB. I would have to go aftermarket. Canada and most of the world gets one though.
I have had the winter diesel before and there was a slight drop in mileage. Believe me, I will take that any day over a no start occurrence in -20F.
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 359
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From: Kelowna, BC
'09 ML550
Informative thread
There is a good thread on this topic here:
http://www.thedieselstop.com/archive...o=&fpart=1.htm
A couple of the posters seem to know what they are talking about.
http://www.thedieselstop.com/archive...o=&fpart=1.htm
A couple of the posters seem to know what they are talking about.
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Joined: Sep 2005
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From: Albuquerque
'10 CL550, '12 GL550
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 898
Likes: 9
From: Woodstock, IL
His 2019 RAM Cummins Turbo Diesel Laramie; Her's 2007 ML320 CDI P3; Mine BMW R1200R
It can be retrofitted, but parts bolted to the engine must be changed also. Not ready to spend $$$ to replace good parts with other good parts, just to make room for another part that I may only need 2 weeks out of the year. Additives looks like a better way to go.
I would like advocate that the block heater should be a worldwide factory option.
I would like advocate that the block heater should be a worldwide factory option.
