CDNROCKIES

It is that time of year again up here, and as such it's time for our diesels to head back to the shop with CEL's. Nothing new, it is the same thing every year, as we get these temps typically for a week or two. The AdBlue delivery systems are not designed to handle temperatures of -30 C or colder and freeze up. Neither BMW or Mercedes has an answer other than to thaw them out and reset the CEL's (MB replaced the entire delivery system the first year when it was even colder). Major pita as we're 60 miles from our dealership.

While I am fully aware that the sales to climates such as ours will be low, it is still disappointing that these, supposedly great, German engineers can't figure out how to set up these $80K vehicles to function in all conditions.

Oh well, just vehicles. Off to Rover to have a look while dropping off the ML at the shop. And yes, fully aware of the potential issues with a RR.

zemun1234

I am wondering if you can quickly compare X5 diesel vs ML320 CDI. I'd like hear it from real owner, not just magazine overview

CDNROCKIES

So we got our ML back on Wed. Temp sensor (due to being plugged in according to the work order...lol...wtf else are we supposed to do when it's -30???) was replaced along with a few other codes and updates.

CEL came back on this morning. On top of the annoyance of having to trek back to Calgary for another service, the SA was condescending towards my wife on the phone. The service at Lonestar is so brutally bad it's mindboggling.

Oh well, it's just a vehicle. We'll speak with our dollars and the ML will leave our garage in very short order without another Benz replacement.

Moto One

What I see is an opportunity to do what MB seems unable too. Make a heating unit that keeps the **** from freezing... By the way our old RR had a heating blanket that keep the PCV system from freezing up (that would be the BMW ME62 eng). But during some Sub Zero weather the blanket failed, moisture in the system froze and caused all sort of havoc blowing oil out of every where.

Oh and I miss the hot windshield on the Rover.

Mark

listerone

I've never had a cold weather problem with either of my AdBlue equipped cars in almost 4 full winters.And that includes on a -31F day (don't know what that is in celsius,but it's *cold*).Am I a fortunate one or is my experience fairly typical of AdBlue cars?

CDNROCKIES

Hey man. Long time no chat. Glad to hear that you're still driving your diesels. I remember the long, cold trip that you took up here.

I don't know for sure, but I think that your experience may be more the exception than the norm....for weather conditions like we experience up here. Maybe it's that our temps stay consistently lower, before and after the extreme cold temps.

There does seem to be more issues when we hit that extreme cold, which is evidenced by how ridiculously busy the service departments get (especially at BMW without the block heaters).

Lastly, it isn't an occasional issue we've experienced. This is every year, every time the temp gets below -30 C. I'd think that if it wasn't an engineering issue either our BMW or MB dealership would have dealt with the issue permanently.

YYZ-E55

Will the CEL not clear itself after a few days?

I went through three days of -24 with the GL but haven't made it to -30 yet! Zero problems here.

eagle65

Is anyone adding antigel to your fuel?

roadrutz

Winter diesel in the northern states and Canada is quite different from summer diesel. It shouldn't be necessary to add anything unless you are storing the vehicle.

eagle65

In iowa they switch to # 1 Diesel in the winter with no additives. Last year in Montana some stations added additional anti gel each month as it got colder. # 1 without anti gel will be a problem at 15 below F. Canada may be diff than states. If you travel north from florida to canada this time of year watch what fuel you purchase esp in IL.

dgiturbo

eagle65 "...watch what fuel you purchase esp in IL." whats up with IL diesel?
The stations claim they switch over, but I have my skepticism also.

As for the freezing Adblue, I have heard this before when it first came out. Now I see new semi's with Adblue tanks, and they drive up North. Sure by now there must be a fix, or else there will be a ton of complaints with this now mandatory system. Curious if any 2012's Bluetec's have this issue.

CDNROCKIES

Just a quick update.

Another DEF delivery pump.

Good question about what the big diesel trucks do to deal with the cold and their DEF delivery systems. I was fortunate to have a discussion with one of the techs from Detroit Diesel tonight. Great guys that cold weather test at a location where I have a business.

Firstly, he confirmed that DEF will freeze when exposed to -30 C for any extended period of time. Their solution was that they added a U shaped engine coolant line that runs around the DEF delivery line.

They took the DEF tank, dropped it in a cold chamber at -30 C overnight so that it was frozen solid when they reinstalled it in the morning. They then fired up the truck and let it run to see how it operated. Apparently, to meet emissions, they had to have DEF flowing within 30 minutes. With the coolant line they met that requirement.

Forgive me, if this seems overly simplistic. Keep in mind I'm trying to recount the explanation after several Superbowl cocktails.

The point is that there appears to be a very simple fix that MB and BMW have chosen not to address.
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dgiturbo

"...Their solution was that they added a U shaped engine coolant line that runs around the DEF delivery line.... "

See that makes sense and is really simple. MB used to run the same U-Shaped and coiled line inside the windshield washer bottles on the older sedans, but I guess the engineers who could think these things up have retired?
Curious to see how Jeep handles this in their upcoming 2013 model.

YYZ-E55

The area around the pump is heated in the MBs. If it wasn't, the vehicle wouldn't meet emissions.

Here's the tech specs for the new Sprinter BlueTEC models, which are similar to the ML/GL/R:

http://media.daimler.com/dcmedia/0-9...0-0-0-0-0.html

Peter V

yes, but this diesel engine cold start difficulty is much aggravated in newer Ad-blue-tec ones due to complicated sensitive aditional equipment necessary to comply with very restrictive environmental regulation imposed by US (& Canada typical regulatory piggy-back freemarketloading) gov (corrupted by lobbying ) on diesel engines by comparison with similar capacity otto engines.