AudiA4Turbo22

Yes, I bet many of you are thinking "No one cares about your opinion" lol, but I feel this will be helpful to those thinking about buying a W164 and are having the same debate.

My background:

I had the 2006 ML500 for a few years and it was loaded up the tail with options and fortunately it had Airmatic as well. I just recently bought an 08 ML550(like 2 weeks ago) and it has every option except for P3(which has Airmatic as a feature).

After driving the ML550 for a couple weeks now, I really have come to miss the Airmatic VERY MUCH. I've noticed that the non-Airmatic cars sit much higher(19s look like 17s), they tend to bounce and roll A LOT more, handling is not as crisp or balanced, and the ride is not nearly as smooth as an Airmatic car. I really feel it's unfortunate that this ML didn't have that option, but not much I can do as VERY LIMITED ML550's were made with the Airmatic option. The Airmatic option is quite common on ML500's though(pre 2008) as it was available separately from the P3 package.

I am actually going to try and map out the parts of an Airmatic car and see if it is feasible to retrofit Airmatic. I may just have to settle with some springs and shocks, but hopefully not.

I think it's ridiculous that the GL450 which costs LESS than the ML550 comes standard with Airmatic and the ML550 doesn't. I swear, Mercedes USA must be high on some good stuff when selecting the option packs for these cars. And what were they thinking with these plastic door panel inserts and this SUPER THIN steering wheel?

I would like to retrofit the wheel from the W221 into the ML as the wheel is MUCH thicker and feels much better. BUT, that's another thread.

dgiturbo

You won't like what you hear for prices.

AMGC60-3

Airmatic = big $$$

AudiA4Turbo22

Well, I'm not expecting this to be done for $1,000 lol. This is going to cost at least 5k especially since I wont be buying parts from the dealer, but rather from salvage yards.

I feel that it's worth it, especially if I'm able to modify the controller and the air springs/shocks to handle similar to the ML63.

aggst1

I agree with you regarding Airmatic suspension. I came off two MB vehicles (R500 and ML350) none of which had airmatic suspension to a GL450 fully loaded with P2 package (no P3 on GLs) and airmatic standard as you mentioned. The difference in handling is very dramatic IMO. The GLs steering is very precise (could also be attributed to the 20 inch wheels with low profile tires). I am amazed with the lack of body roll on such a large vehicle. As far as comparing cost between GL450 and ML550 is concerned I disagree with your comment. The ML550 for 2011 had a base price of $58,500 while for the same year the GL450 had a base price of $64,600. So the GL450 does cost more and when adding the options , mine came at $78K msrp !!! (of course the ML550 with all options would reach similar levels real fast too) but at base prices that include only standard options there was a 6 grand difference. The standard airmatic and third row seating alone make up for that difference.

In short, the airmatic is a must have IMO even though it costs a lot to replace when it break down. That's what warranty is for! I also second the above comments regarding the cost of retrofitting airmatic. The cost will be prohibitive. Much cheaper to trade even if you get a bad deal!

AudiA4Turbo22

^^Okay let me correct that:

In 2008 the ML550 had a base price of ~$54,000 and the GL450 had a base price of ~$55,000. So yes I was incorrect, but a thousand dollars cannot add up to be the difference of Airmatic, better interior materials, power folding third row seats, and an additional 3-4ft of lengthening.

aggst1

I see your point. That explains why they raised the base price of the GL to more than 1K per year since then.

roadrutz

My (Canadian) ML550 came with Airmatic standard.

AudiA4Turbo22

No, Mercedes just constantly raises the price of their cars throughout the 7 year period before the redesign, most likely to cover the increased cost of R&D for the next gen model. The S550 started with a base price of $85,000 and now in its last year it is up to $94,500. The CL550 which came out with a base price of $100,375 is now $114,100.

I had a fully loaded GL450 for a few years and just in the last year switched it out for an S550. In 2008, FULLY LOADED it was $74,000 and now a fully loaded GL450 is ~$82,000. If you look at it, nothing has been added or changed to warrant the price difference aside from an updated command and some LEDs.

Sorry for going off topic here, but it deserved an explanation. Most people don't realize the price hikes.

AudiA4Turbo22

Really? That's such a bummer, everyone outside of the USA gets the good stuff.

Sharkster

Before taking the expensive route of retrofitting an Airmatic, you should try to simpy replace the standard springs for Eibach Pro Kit springs.

Pro Kit springs will lower your ride to the standard Airmatic level (~35mm) and will also reduce the body roll. And..., they're cheap (~300-400 USD).

Might be a good option to check out, before putting in 4-5k USD into retrofitting Airmatic.

One important thing to check before swapping springs though:
Make sure your standard shocks are 100% ok. If you already have a mileage of ~100,000 miles on your installed OEM shocks, they probably won't be able to handle the extra pressure put on them through the Pro Kit springs. In that case ride comfort would drop significantly.

EDIT: You may also want to check out Brabus springs. They are made by Eibach as well, but designed and engineered by BRABUS. Check out this link to read a report from some guy who bought the BRABUS springs for his ML 350: https://mbworld.org/forums/m-class-w...xperience.html

The attached image shows the ride hide after the springs were installed (that's Flipsonic's car, not mine!). Guess I'll be going for the BRABUS springs as well. So you may want to wait a couple of weeks until I come up with my story.

sosh

Have Airmatic and have also had it on 2 of my 3 prior ML's. My current 10 ML550 rides great with it as did the others. Would not have an ML without Airmatic. Think you will find that no matter what aftermarket spring/shock set up you use it won't come close to Airmatic. Retrofit will be out of the question due to cost. Perhaps you should sell what you have and purchase an Airmatic equipped ML. By the way I have never had any sort of an Airmatic failure on any of my ML's.

AudiA4Turbo22

Lol i wouldn't be able to find an ml550 anywhere in the USA with airmatic and all the options. Keep in mind i bought this car just a few weeks ago if that. I spent a month and a half searching for the right one.

I need to start the research and see the cost of a retrofit.

I actually know that springs/shocks will handle better than any car equipped with air suspension.
The only loss is adjustability of height and ride.

AudiA4Turbo22

I appreciate the info, the brabus kit was going to be my fallback setup.

I only have 49,000 miles on it so the shocks should be cherry. I would personally opt for the full kit to prevent any future problems.

I look forward to seeing your thread and review.

Sharkster

Just ordered the springs. Will get to have them installed within the next 14 days.

I was told that the setup loses a lot of comfort when going with the BRABUS shocks and springs. And my OEM shocks are brandnew. So I'll be going with the springs only.

Will report back in a new thread once the springs are installed.

AMGC60-3

I have had H&R springs in mine since September 2010 and with the stock shocks, I am very happy with them and have had no problems so far, I may still go with Bilstein shocks sometime in the future, we will see.

roadrutz

I question that, unless you go for a really radical setup. With Airmatic set to Sport, the ride is quite stiff and quite comparable to my wife's M3. On the twisties you still know you are in a 5,000 lb vehicle, but it takes the corners extremely well.

AudiA4Turbo22

I'm not talking about the W164 specifically. I meant that a vehicle equipped with properly balanced coilovers will handle much better than the same vehicle on air ride. Mercedes has perfected the Airmatic system, but if a company like Bilstein or Ohlins sat down and made a proper coilover kit for the W164, it would be no comparison.

grane

If you have a standard suspension, the rule for better handling is usually heavier sway bars front and rear first. This might be all you have to do.

Then, I would look into Shocks - I prefer Bilsteins - one click up in damping characteristics than stock. Tthis will improve the ride. You may wish to stop here.

If you then go to lowering springs from a reputable firm such as H&R then make sure the shock travel and damping is compatible with the springs.

AudiA4Turbo22

I completely agree with you here. However, i have been unsuccessful in finding any swaybar upgrades for this platform. Perhaps the ml63 sway bars would be a good upgrade.

I have Hotchkis sway bars on my Audi, and while they do dramatically improve the handling characteristics, they equally reduce ride comfort. I know i can't have it all, something has to give.

Anyone have leads to sway bars?

roadrutz

Two things:

1. If "a vehicle equipped with properly balanced coilovers will handle much better than the same vehicle on air ride", why did Mercedes/AMG opt for Airmatic on the ML63, where presumably the only issue was performance? Or are you saying the rule doesn't apply to Mercedes because they have perfected air ride? Hmmm...

2. Why would a sway bar "reduce ride comfort"? OK, if, say, the left front wheel hits a bump and the right one doesn't, you will feel it more with a sway bar, but if both wheels hit the same bump at the same time there will be no difference to ride comfort regardless of how stiff or weak the sway bar is. Am I missing something here?

Not being argumentative, just curious.

AudiA4Turbo22

1. The ML63 AMG is not a very handling oriented SUV, it just has firmer suspension, firmer steering and a lower ride height. The buyers of the ML63 AMG are not looking for something that handles like it's on rails, they are looking for comfort with moderate sport. Coilovers are WAY too rough for them to be used on an SUV from the factory. Ride comfort would suffer tremendously because of the high spring rates and the stiff shocks necessary to damp the firm springs. You would feel everything on the road and would even launch off your chair while cruising over uneven surfaces. The Airmatic provides a decent balance of comfort and sportiness. If you think about it the SLS AMG which is the first Mercedes AMG that actually handles well, has steel springs and struts. Currently, the C63 AMG and E63 AMG have steel springs and struts as well. However, the E63 has rear air springs to improve ride comfort(ride comfort is dependent on rear suspension not front). They all do have electronically adjustable shocks as well.

2. Sway bars connect opposing wheels together to control body roll on turn-ins. The thicker and stiffer the sway bar, the less the body roll, but the amount of travel at each of the wheels is reduced significantly. The way cars are able to dampen bumps and rough roads is by allowing the wheels and suspension to compress allowing the shocks to dampen the bounce caused by the bump and springs. If the shock is not able to compress the proper amount, more of the road is transferred through the cabin and steering rack. If you removed the sway bars from your ML and drove for a day you would see that it rides like a cloud, but your handling would be similar to that of a boat.

sosh

Believe you are absolutly correct. Its my take that Airmatic improves not just the handling but also the ride comfort. Performance suspension just will improve the handling and will effect in most cases the ride comfort in a negative manner. Airmatic also adjusts the suspension for the road characteristics at hand which the performance suspension is unable to do.

AudiA4Turbo22

I am not disagreeing with either of you on that point at all. The question was regarding handling. Air suspension provides the best ride, because as the bags/Air Springs compress they do not increase in spring rate. As a spring is compressed the spring rate is increased making the bump more noticeable.

Sharkster

I have the BRABUS springs on my ML now. One word: AWESOME!
A huge improvement both visually and handling-wise. The ride height comes down to a little lower than the standard Airmatic setting. And the handling feels really great IMO. A little firmer and more sporty, but not stiff or hard.

I will post all info and pics early next week.