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I'm visiting from the W210 forum. My tranny is going out (along with my AC) on my 2000 E320 RWD with 247,000 miles and I figure it's time to get a newer vehicle. I've been pretty happy with the wagon and I naturally started looking for another E-class wagon. But I'm torn between a beautiful topaz blue with taupe interior wagon with 140k miles and an ML 350, black on black with 80k miles. Both have good service records, the wagon has more detailed history though. I really don't care too much for SUVs but I do kinda like the interior of the ML and they seem to be easier to find used than the wagons with lower miles. I usually buy older, high mileage cars cheap and maintain them myself. I just don't get too much into transmission stuff. That's my biggest concern with these cars (I wish there were more manual transmission options).
Im looking for some insight between the two cars. Most of my research has been on the e-wagon; I never really considered the ML of this year. I know the older ones had major issues but haven't heard much about the last run of the W164. I know they are very different but they would be used the same way and both could serve my needs.
(Carrying tools, bikes, ski trips, odd runs to tool store, furniture, etc). The wife likes both. The wagon is $3000 cheaper for obvious reasons but has air suspension in the rear. What are your thoughts on the pros and cons of the two?
I've test driven the wagon already and it was great! Going to test drive the ML neater today.
Anyway, I test drove the ML yesterday. Not bad, the interior was very good for its age, had MB Tex, It felt solid with no rattles and handled pretty well. It had 20" wheels and I think it helped to make it feel flatter in turns but there was definitely more body roll than the wagon. Acceleration was not that great compared to the wagon either. It had more leg room and head room in the ML but the interior was dated compared to the wagon. They're both 2011 but the wagon got the redesign before the ML.
Overall, I like the wagon better. The ML was not bad; I could have made it work but the sales guy was a complete jerk, so I told him where he could go and test drove the wagon again. The wagon was just much more refined. The ML is great if you prefer a more truck like feel. I still need to do the PPI, so the ML is still not completely off the table but I would find another one.
This forum can be pretty dead sometimes unfortunately. I have a 2011 ML350 and a 2005 C240 4MATIC Estate, so can appreciate your appreciation of the E-wagon, which I specifically avoided due to the pricepoint I was looking for and the fact that the model years I could afford '03-'06 (at the time I was looking) had the notorious SBC hydraulic brake system plus the rear air suspension which I didn't really want from a reliability perspective. The 2011 we bought for my wife with low miles and it has been reliable for us. I specifically chose a 2011 as my experience is that buying the last year of a production run is good practice with Mercs as they tend to have worked out most of the big kinks for that model. My 2005 C240 wagon, while not an E-class wagon, is a higher mileage vehicle that I drive primarily to and from work. I, like you, work on both vehicles myself when I can. One thing I would look into is how reliability was on the first 2 years of the new generation E since the one you are looking at is a 2011.
Smart of you to do a PPI. One thing some MLs have an issue with is the intake manifold swirl flaps breaking which MB shop book dictates requires a full intake manifold replacement for. Something to consider. I believe that is likely a possible issue for the E350 as well since it is the same engine I believe.
From a driving standpoint it is what you already described, I find my wagon to be a more refined cruiser, yet the ML also cruises just fine at highway speeds. The suspension on my C240 is actually cushier than my ML. The suspension in the ML is more truck like. The ML has the higher ride height which some people prefer. I do have a trailer that I pull so the ML handles that better than the E-class would I imagine.
This forum can be pretty dead sometimes unfortunately. I have a 2011 ML350 and a 2005 C240 4MATIC Estate, so can appreciate your appreciation of the E-wagon, which I specifically avoided due to the pricepoint I was looking for and the fact that the model years I could afford '03-'06 (at the time I was looking) had the notorious SBC hydraulic brake system plus the rear air suspension which I didn't really want from a reliability perspective. The 2011 we bought for my wife with low miles and it has been reliable for us. I specifically chose a 2011 as my experience is that buying the last year of a production run is good practice with Mercs as they tend to have worked out most of the big kinks for that model. My 2005 C240 wagon, while not an E-class wagon, is a higher mileage vehicle that I drive primarily to and from work. I, like you, work on both vehicles myself when I can. One thing I would look into is how reliability was on the first 2 years of the new generation E since the one you are looking at is a 2011.
Smart of you to do a PPI. One thing some MLs have an issue with is the intake manifold swirl flaps breaking which MB shop book dictates requires a full intake manifold replacement for. Something to consider. I believe that is likely a possible issue for the E350 as well since it is the same engine I believe.
From a driving standpoint it is what you already described, I find my wagon to be a more refined cruiser, yet the ML also cruises just fine at highway speeds. The suspension on my C240 is actually cushier than my ML. The suspension in the ML is more truck like. The ML has the higher ride height which some people prefer. I do have a trailer that I pull so the ML handles that better than the E-class would I imagine.
Let us know what you choose and good luck!
Thanx for your input and perspective. I decided to buy the 2011 ML350. I really liked the wagon but I realized the the ML would be easier to live with. I haul bikes, tools, equipment and ski gear so the ML is a bit wider and more durable for that sort of stuff. It seems to be the simplest of the two; not much to go wrong on the ML. The wagon would have been a bit too nice for that.
I got a great deal on a white one with black interior. Paint and interior is flawless. Has a Permafinish that lasts for 6 years so it always looks glossy. I went with the RWD because it drove better than the AWD. I got to drive both back to back. I like he idea of AWD but I really don’t need it for where I live and the gas mileage is not that great with AWD.
BTW, how would you know if you had tha intake manifold issue? I was able to use a scanner and see that as a pending code on anther e-class I was looking at but I was wondering if there were other symptoms.
You're going to wish you had the AWD the first time you get stuck in snow. My ML550 with AWD can get out of more than 3 feet of Boston snow without having to do any shoveling, and my back thanks me for it every winter.
You're going to wish you had the AWD the first time you get stuck in snow. My ML550 with AWD can get out of more than 3 feet of Boston snow without having to do any shoveling, and my back thanks me for it every winter.
I’m in Atlanta Georgia. We don’t get snow here, but they do shut the whole city down when we get a little flurries. Happened this weekend. What a joke! I do miss my Audi with Quattro but I can count on 1 hand how many times I actually needed it. If I was still living in Jersey I would have gotten it.
I’m in Atlanta Georgia. We don’t get snow here, but they do shut the whole city down when we get a little flurries. Happened this weekend. What a joke! I do miss my Audi with Quattro but I can count on 1 hand how many times I actually needed it. If I was still living in Jersey I would have gotten it.
"(Carrying tools, bikes, ski trips, odd runs to tool store, furniture, etc)." Last I checked there's no skiing in Atlanta.
"(Carrying tools, bikes, ski trips, odd runs to tool store, furniture, etc)." Last I checked there's no skiing in Atlanta.
You got me there. We head to Boone NC for skiing once a year but fly out west other times. I know I’ll miss it on those occasions but I can’t imagine the gas mileage being any worse on this heavy thing.
You got me there. We head to Boone NC for skiing once a year but fly out west other times. I know I’ll miss it on those occasions but I can’t imagine the gas mileage being any worse on this heavy thing.
Thanx for your input and perspective. I decided to buy the 2011 ML350. I really liked the wagon but I realized the the ML would be easier to live with. I haul bikes, tools, equipment and ski gear so the ML is a bit wider and more durable for that sort of stuff. It seems to be the simplest of the two; not much to go wrong on the ML. The wagon would have been a bit too nice for that.
I got a great deal on a white one with black interior. Paint and interior is flawless. Has a Permafinish that lasts for 6 years so it always looks glossy. I went with the RWD because it drove better than the AWD. I got to drive both back to back. I like he idea of AWD but I really don’t need it for where I live and the gas mileage is not that great with AWD.
BTW, how would you know if you had tha intake manifold issue? I was able to use a scanner and see that as a pending code on anther e-class I was looking at but I was wondering if there were other symptoms.
Congrats on the purchase. I guess you didn't do the PPI like I recommended! Yes these cars are a decent value right now if you aren't afraid to work on them, unfortunately they continue to depreciate like stones but it is a Mercedes after all. I guess that is why we could afford one in the first place!
Here is some good reading and a video on the swirl flap breakage issue:
Below pic shows the weak point. You can take off the front engine cover and peer at the intake manifold for the two plastic arms that are prone to break. You should be able to see it from there. When my issue arose my engine wasn't throwing codes but if you let it go long enough it will start to misfire.
Congrats on the purchase. I guess you didn't do the PPI like I recommended! Yes these cars are a decent value right now if you aren't afraid to work on them, unfortunately they continue to depreciate like stones but it is a Mercedes after all. I guess that is why we could afford one in the first place!
Here is some good reading and a video on the swirl flap breakage issue:
Below pic shows the weak point. You can take off the front engine cover and peer at the intake manifold for the two plastic arms that are prone to break. You should be able to see it from there. When my issue arose my engine wasn't throwing codes but if you let it go long enough it will start to misfire.
Awesome information man! Love the video. I may just replace that part as preventative maintenance during the C service. I'm not having any issues with it I just wanted to know for future reference. The dealer did check the car but they're not really forthcoming with information.
You bet. You need to remove the intake manifold to replace it which I would not suggest doing unnecessarily as that requires new gaskets and a good amount of upper engine accessory removal (fuel lines). Just keep an eye on it. On mine that exact lever where the pic I linked to says "WEAK POINT" is where it broke you can just keep an eye on that every once in a while.
You bet. You need to remove the intake manifold to replace it which I would not suggest doing unnecessarily as that requires new gaskets and a good amount of upper engine accessory removal (fuel lines). Just keep an eye on it. On mine that exact lever where the pic I linked to says "WEAK POINT" is where it broke you can just keep an eye on that every once in a while.
You can get these on ebay for about $40 now. Good to know.
You're going to wish you had the AWD the first time you get stuck in snow. My ML550 with AWD can get out of more than 3 feet of Boston snow without having to do any shoveling, and my back thanks me for it every winter.
I think you’re right. The Gas mileage is the same with RWD. I should have just gotten the 4Matic.
10-09-2017, 10:00 AM
