dprice03

Hello, new to the site and wanted to get your opinions. First, sorry for the long post, I decided to pack everything into one post instead of multiple posts. I have been a long time owner of BMW X5's (3 of them). Last year, I decided to buy instead of lease and ordered a 2014 Lexus RX350 F sport for the supposed reliability. Big mistake. First, I HATE the styling of the Lexus, it looks like a jelly bean or upside down bath tub, round everywhere with few if any character lines. Secondly, the front seats are small and they are heated by air, CRAZY. You literally have to wait on the engine to heat up in order to get heated seats. Thankfully, the MB has ELECTRICALLY heated seats, so the heat is available immediately. Finally, on the day I picked up the RX350, I couldn't even drive it on the freeway, the alignment was so bad. After several trips to the dealer for alignments, they changed all 4 tires, in addition to the multiple alignments. To this day it STILL pulls to one side. I have had a few other small problems too. In my experience anyway, their touted "reliability" is overrated. So a few months ago I started looking for a new vehicle and settled on the ML

I was EXTREMELY disappointed that I could no longer order the ML550. IMHO, the ML400 is a major disappointment. The increased fuel economy is completely irrelevant to me. Instead of the ML550's bi-turbo V8, you now get a bi-turbo V6 with the ML400. You LOSE 73 horsepower and 89 pound/feet of torque in the 400 versus the 550. Also, I hate the ECO start/stop system on the ML400. This is fairly new technology and I am concerned about the longevity of the starter with this start/stop system. I know there is a switch to turn it off, but you have to do that EVERY time you get in the vehicle, because the default is "on". One other nitpick with all of the ML line is the multi contour seats. I am a HUGE fan of the multi contour seats in the BMW X5. If you haven't experienced them, they are wonderful. The multi contour seats in the X5 use electrical motors to bend, shape, etc. ALL parts of the seats into literally any configuration. The MB uses air bladders in their multi contour seats to "shape" the seats, so I am not sure it is as good. So this is what I ordered:

4Matic
Black
Black interior
Lighting pkg
Exterior Sport pkg w/ 20" wheels
Premium pkg
Lane tracking pkg
Illuminated star
Wheel locking bolts
Black leather
Multi Contour seats
Ventilated seats
Heated steering wheel
Harman/kardon audio
Running boards
Ambient interior lighting

Special Order Options
Heated Windshield Washer system
Black Cloth Headliner

The black cloth headliner was very important to me. I hate the gray headliner paired with the black interior. The black cloth headliner is standard on the AMG, but an incredibly cheap $100 option. The build part of the MB website does NOT show this as an option at all. Further, the brochure does NOT list it as an available option on the ML350. But I had my dealer put the order through and it was accepted as submitted. He said that if the factory could not build it, the computer order system would have rejected it, but it accepted the order. I ordered this in mid January, he said it would take 3 months because of the availability of 1 or more of the options. The MSRP was $67,785. I went to 2 different websites to determine the best price and both of them came to within $100. The website's best purchase price was $64,100, this was determined by True Car and Edmunds TMV and that is what I eventually agreed to. I know that others have said they got more off MSRP, but I am satisfied with this, since I am ordering exactly what I want and not settling for something somebody else ordered.

I saw the debut of the 2016 GLE coupe and personally, I hate it. In looking at it, it reminds me of the Lexus, rounded everywhere. To me the best looking SUV on the road is the current MB GL. I think it has the perfect styling mix of roundness AND straight character lines. I think the current ML is simply a 2 row version of the current 3 row GL. I have seen a spy video of the upcoming non coupe 2016 GLE SUV and here is what I think. In looking at the video, they are changing the hood, front fenders, front bumper and in the back, at least the rear bumper. The changes to the front parts are necessary to accommodate the more swept back headlights, as seen on the GLE coupe. I think this is a styling mistake. Now the back is the intriguing part to me. I really like the slender tail lights on the GLE coupe, so if that is carried over to the main GLE SUV, that might look good. But to change the rear tail lights MB would have to change the design of the current steel tailgate, so I'm curious if that will happen.

So I am somewhat questioning my current order/purchase of the 2015 ML350. However, after kicking myself for not ordering the 2014 ML550 when I could, I think I will stick with what I know, instead of waiting for the possible.

Any thoughts on anything in my post?

fabbrisd1

You have built a nice rig - quickie, what about Keyless Go, I would recommend a "ddper" look at options and packages if you want to make your ML350 "special" - if it was me I would have gone with Sport Interior Package for cool cat look with Dinamica which would take care of the roof lining I believe as well, consider the Parking Assist w/Surround View, consider the Interior Package - things like that.

So you know the GLE Coupe will "technically" not be a W166 series - yes, it will be in the GLE series - but the GLE Coupe has a different chassis than the W166 chassis currently "shared" between the ML/GL.

dprice03

Thanks for your reply! I poured over the options list for almost 2 weeks and picked precisely what I wanted and left off what I didn't want. I considered the Keyless Go, but here was my opinion. My current Lexus has this feature and I'm kind of old school. Since you don't put the key in the ignition, I have to find a place to put the keys. I don't carry them in my pockets when I'm sitting down, so I place them in the cupholder. Then when I get out of the vehicle, sometimes I forget the keys and have to go back, since the key was not in an ignition switch. Strange, I know, but just my deal.

I didn't go with the Interior Sport Package, because you can't get the ventilated seats with the Interior sport pkg. My vehicle will sit outside and the ventilated seats were a very important option.

I live in a suburb, but I don't parallel park at all anywhere and I've never had an issue parking, so the parking assist just seemed like another electrical item that could go wrong and not add anything to my particular driving situation.

My main thinking in going through the options was to pick things I really wanted or needed and leave off those things that wouldn't add to my driving situation. The last thing I wanted was to order options that added marginal or nothing to my driving situation AND was simply something else that could go wrong on the vehicle.

Your point is very interesting on the GLE, it will be interesting to see how many (if any) styling cues carry over to the main GLE SUV from the GLE coupe.

greasykid

I think that the 360degree camera is really worth it.

dprice03

You may be right on that. I really considered that one too. But in the end, for me, I just decided that with my driving, where I drive, park, etc. it just wasn't worth it. I really want the most reliable vehicle I can possibly get and the more gadgets, etc. there are on a vehicle, the higher the chances for something to go wrong. Unless I really needed it or really wanted it, I left it off the order. For example, I'm disappointed in MB for their air bladder multi contour seats instead of BMW's electrical motor multi contour seats. From what I understand, for the MB ML there is an air tank in the cargo area that supplies air through tubes all the way up to the front seats. The air bladders in the seats have to hold the air to keep your contour settings. Any air leaks anywhere and this feature won't work properly. To me that situation is ripe for problems down the road. But I highly value the ability to have the best driving and most comfortable seats possible. Therefore, the reliability concern was overridden by my desire for the option. But an option that I highly value, someone else may find little need for and vice versa. I guess that's the beauty of ordering a vehicle, each person can tailor their vehicle to their exact wants or needs.

rtw_travel

One of the thinks that drew us to the ML was the tow capacity of 7000lbs +. In fact, The hitch was mandatory for us in our search for a used ML.

The factory hitch is reasonably priced and it must be factory ordered. Trying to install one afterwards is way more expensive.

Even if you don't want to use the hitch, you might consider it in order to make it easier to sell when you move on to your next vehicle.

MLee

Congratulations on carrying out such a detailed thought process on your purchase. I feel far too many people fail to do this.
I am fortunate to live in Australia where most options are standard Australian delivery, but I would certainly have deleted Eco start.......its a pain.

I look forward to your posts once you have your vehicle and have settled in to it......I'm guessing you will have some interesting discussion to commence.

Cheers, lee

fabbrisd1

Sure... you are free to choose your mnu items you find of value to you - however you asked, and from the theme of your "wants" you might be prudent and review for yourself.

1) Sport Interior: Well... so you know, if you haven't seen/sat in a Dinamica center paneled seat - which I think most have not had the opportunity - of course you would not be aware of the differences - and those differences actually are in the theme I understand from your "want" list.

Dinamica "comfort" - which is also used in several of the AMG model seats - and some owners like a LOT - is fabric does not require ventilation - as it does not get "hot" and also has a fabulous "breathability factor - think of a "ultra-suede sofa finish".

In persepctive a Dinamica headline is $1600 - for ML63 - expensive stuff and the seat package is a bargain.

With leather - yes you can choose ventilation because sun heated leather can get scalding - and warm leather can get sweaty too - so ventilation is a option for leather.

For Dinamica, that "sueded" product does not get too hot even in direct sun, and in same but lesser vein since MB-Tex has a fabric base it doesn't get as scalding as leather either - and is perforated finish too - hence no Ventilation option needed on MB-Tex too

Dinamica is not "cushie" but softer feel in the seat. Gives you that - at +$620 since it includes the black headliner. Again, the seats are a bargain, yes drops your heated steering wheel saves you $250 more

2) Option #242 : Now for comfort on the passenger side - I would check if you have ordered option #242 for passenger seat memory and lumbar - $365 - you have ordered this, correct ?

3) Option U09 - MB-Tex wrapped lower dash and front door panels - contrast stitching - for $450 - check the forum everyone who has it loves it.

4) If MB offered the Surround View separate from the Parking Assist package with Parktronic - it would be a no brainer - even at pack price $1270 - it is a "cool cat feature".. your choice

5) if added safety is a "want" the factory trailer hitch at $550 is a no brainer - in the event of a rear end collision that frame mounted factory hitch transfers that energy from impact to the FRAME rather than the BODY for increased driver/passenger safety - yes, with what it does (trailer//tow/storage wise) it's a $550 bargain for that - in terms of ADDED PEOPLE SAFETY when someone plows into your rear at a red light is PRICELESS.

6) On running boards - your $670 - I recommend you test/enter/exit a ML both with and without - frankly the "no running boards" choice is growing - with three main exceptions that still trend to boards - small children into the back - women with high heels - and loading top racks...

Just trying to give you helpful suggestions - and that is what experience is for - it's ALL your choice.

dprice03

I really appreciate your in depth thoughts and response. I should also mention that we are buying and not leasing, because I hope to keep this vehicle for awhile. That leads to one of my main desires, to make this vehicle as reliable as possible, by not adding anything that I don't want or need. The other thing is that we are putting down a sizable down payment, because I hope to pay it off in a year or 2. That creates a situation where I don't want to spend money on anything that I don't want or don't need. I would have loved to have had an ML63 AMG, but I just can't bring myself to spend $100K on a daily driver. I have some classic cars and I would rather put my money there instead. But you bring up some good points, here is how they relate to our situation.

1) Sport Interior pkg - At the dealer, I had sat in an ML with the Interior sport package with the Dinamica suede inserts in the seats. I hear what you are saying as far as temperature, but for me, I just didn't like the suede inserts on those seats. It brought back flashbacks of the 1970s lol (suede shoes and pants as a kid, it wasn't cool looking lol). You are correct that the black headliner comes standard with the Interior sport package, but I can get that black headliner (which was the only thing I really wanted in that pkg) for $100 as a stand alone option. For me, it just came down to personal preference, I just couldn't live with the "suede" in my seats, again just personal preference. So in the end this one was a definite no for us.

2) Option 242 passenger memory seat - For us, we don't need the passenger seat memory. It's just my wife and I and I always drive, so no one will be in the passenger seat, except her. So she can set the seat and let it be. The one feature my wife can't wait to use is the Massage feature of the Multi Contour seats. I don't really care about being "massaged" as I drive, but she really likes the idea. At the dealer, the massage feature of the Multi Contour seats wasn't really that noticeable anyway.

3) Option U09 MB Tex wrapped dash and door inserts - This one was a maybe for us for awhile before we ordered. I thought long and hard on this one, but in the end I just decided it wasn't necessary for me.

4) Parking assist with surround view camera - On this one, I just come back to one of my objectives. I hope to keep this vehicle for awhile and I really want it to be as reliable as possible. Obviously, the more gadgets a vehicle has, the higher the likelihood that something will go wrong. Since our driving/parking needs wouldn't greatly benefit from the parking assist, I didn't want to waste the money.

5) Tow trailer hitch - The safety aspect of this would have been the only reason I got it, because I won't ever be using this vehicle for towing. But I stood at the dealer and looked at 2 ML's one with and one without the tow hitch and I just didn't like the way the tow hitch looked. I kind of thought it messed up the elegant look of the back end. Again, just my personal preference.

6) Aluminum running boards - Now this one I am still debating even to this moment. I have gone back and forth on the running boards more times than I care to count. Here was my thought process. I really love the way the running boards look on the ML, especially on a black one like the one I've ordered. There is a chrome trim piece that runs horizontally between the glass and the doors. If you look at the ML from the side WITHOUT the running boards, the vehicle looks naked to me. Looking at the vehicle from the side WITH the aluminum running boards, they balance out the look with that chrome trim piece that separates the glass from the doors. This is especially obvious on a black ML. Take a look at the attached pictures. I have attached 2 side pictures of black ML's WITH running boards and 2 side pictures of black ML's WITHOUT running boards. Hopefully, you can see what I mean. The black ML WITHOUT the running boards just looks naked to me, IMHO.

My problem with the running boards is the same complaint as everyone else, getting your pants dirty. Trust me today we got 2 or 3 inches of snow and as I was getting in and out of the Lexus RX350, I was thinking about what it will be like getting in and out of the ML with the running boards in all this snow and slop. But I just can't get over how naked the vehicle looks to me without the running boards, like I said it's especially naked looking on a black ML. So in the end, I'm just going to suck it up to get the look I want. Maybe I'm wrong and maybe not. I'll just have to deal with it, lol.

I really appreciate your in depth thoughts, but trust me, I toiled for many, many hours looking at each and every option and compared it with our specific situation. For example, we didn't order a single thing for the back seat area, no rear heated seats, no rear climate control, no rear dvd system, because we don't have any small children. Our only son graduated from college and moved 1500 miles away, so we don't even have grandchildren to transport. I've had my RX350 for almost a year and a half and no one has ever sat in the back seat that entire time. One could argue that adding this feature or that feature would increase resale, but you could make that argument for practically every available option and you could end up with an $80K ML350. So in the end, I think it has to come down to your specific wants and needs. That's the beauty of ordering I guess.

The only real question in my mind right now is whether I should wait for the 2016 GLE (non coupe) SUV to go in production in July. But like I said before, if I don't like the looks of it, I will have missed my opportunity to order the current version.

B5chung

What are you waiting for? GLE first year run will have many issues. Don't wait too long I just picked up 2015 ml350 BT today, loving it so far.

Wolfman

Just a quick note about the trailer hitch.. I think it's a no-Brainer too but I would not consider it a safety benefit. There is no transfer of energy to the frame in case of rear collision as the car doesn't have a frame... Only the first ML had a body on frame construction, all other ones are monocoque designs.

Another thought on the memory passenger seat; we use the SUV only for errands and quite often expand the storage space by folding down the rear seats. For this we always have to move the front seats forwards and then backwards (since I don't want remove the rear seat headrests).
One the drivers side I just press the memory button while on the passenger side I have to eyeball it, much to my wife's dismay. The passenger seat memory definitely helps there.
I would have spend the extra money for the massage function. One of the best features on a car seat IMO.

Wolfman

I would wait for the GLE. When buying, the GLE will maintain the value better as it is current/new model. There won't be a dramatic style change and if anything the car will be going upmarket in the options.
Since they will offer the same hybrid as in the W222 S-class (S500), it may be an interesting option.

On the other hand, buying an ML while the GLE is introduced will provide for some real bargain shopping and the ML63 maybe in the cards

Taymar16

As you mentioned, the front and rear of the 2016 will have some changes. The interior will be updated to what the GLE Coupe has. If it were me and you can hold out, I would. As a note on the GLE Coupe, it shares the same platform as the W166(ML).

dprice03

I ordered the ML350 back in mid January, but I only put down a very small deposit and I could probably work something out with the dealer. But the design and styling is very important to me. If I don't like the looks of the new GLE, then I would want the current version. I DON'T like the front end looks of the new GLE coupe, but I don't know how close that's going to be to the new GLE SUV. I think that will be the deciding factor for me. Obviously, with the GLE coupe already debuted, the details are out on that vehicle. The interior looks very similar to the current ML, however, I really don't like the tablet style screen in the center stack. To me, it looks like the designers forgot to integrate it in the initial design and so they stuck it on the dash as an afterthought. Take a look at the picture and you can see what I mean, it doesn't seem integrated into the dash. If this carries over to the GLE SUV, then I am sticking with the current version.

The only other concern I have is that usually when a new model or redesign takes place, there are usually some bugs to get worked out in that first model year. So that bothers me a little bit in terms of waiting and ordering a very early GLE, which I think goes into production in July. For example in the article attached below, it says the new GLE coupe will have a NEW nine speed automatic transmission. You have to assume that transmission will be on the new GLE SUV. A new major mechanical item like the transmission is bound to have some initial teething problems in its first model year, it happens with almost every manufacturer. The other thing in the article says that tablet screen in the center stack will be a touch screen, the reliability aspect of this bothers me. So both the design issues (interior and exterior) and reliability issues concern me about waiting for the 2016 GLE. I did some research and it looks like the new GLE SUV will be displayed in April at an auto show. However, my new ML is due to be built the first week in April, maybe I can see what the new GLE is going to look like before I have to pick up the new ML.

http://www.bmwblog.com/2014/12/10/me...-takes-bmw-x6/

What do you guys think of the black ML's (pictures) I attached to that previous post, in terms of the looks with and without running boards?

Wolfman

You are completely overthinking this.
The 9 speed has been out for a while; just because they haven't installed it in a M-class doesn't mean that there will be quality/teething issues. Also, the Nav screen sitting on top of the dash is the way of things, wether one likes it or not. All BMW's have it including the new 7 series. I like the integrated Nav screen better but it is ergonomically inferior and the current one is ridiculously small. It's a safety issue so expect all car manufacturers to go that route...

Also, I may be misinformed but the GLE is not a new platform, just a facelift with an updated model designation. If so, I do not expect any impact on quality, if anything it will be better.

Running boards are a no-brainer. It makes the look of the car.

There are also plenty of lightly camouflaged GLE pics out there; looks extremely close to the current one IMO.

Nanook

Running board for the win certainly...



btw my wife luvs our '14 RX350

dprice03

Yea, when you look at the four pictures of a black ml350 I posted, 2 with running boards and 2 without. I can't believe anyone could look at those pics and come away saying pics without the running boards looks better. From a pure looks standpoint, the running boards win.....but I can see how they might be trouble for your pants, especially during the winter. Oh well, I have pretty much made up my mind on that. The whole reason I'm trading in the RX350 is for the looks, so I will just suck it up and deal with the downside of the running boards to get their look.

And you nailed it in your post....your "WIFE luvs the RX350". Before I bought the RX350, I saw a stat that something like 63% of all RX350's are purchased by WOMEN. Lexus knew this too, that's why they created the RX350 F Sport, trying to get more men to buy it. But the looks of the RX350 are just too feminine for me, even the F Sport, I don't know what it is. I tend to think it's all the rounded shapes of the body, there are no character lines to the RX350. Take a look at the 2 pictures you posted, which one looks more masculine or "cooler"? It's obvious. Granted the pic is of an AMG ML, but still. Even if you just look at the 2 pics of the black ML350 with the running boards that I posted, they look much more masculine, cooler, sportier, whatever term you want to use, than the RX350. At the risk of sounding sexist, if you are a woman, you probably like the pic of the RX350, if you are a man, you probably like the pic of the AMG ML. I know there would be exceptions, but I think that statement is pretty accurate. The sales numbers of who buys which one, backs up my statement.

jtorrebl

The rear taillights will have the same size and shape but have loops in it like all the new benzes, s e c classes. There was a spy pic before showing the same shape with the true signals along the bottom

B5chung

My new ride, love it!

Taymar16

Nice ride! Mine looks just like that, I finally get to pick it up tomorrow.

B5chung

You'll love it!

DFW01E55

dprice, I think the keyless go is a resale issue. In 3 or 5 years, people (dealer) will hammer you that a key must be used to start the car.

The MB keyless is an insert into the ignition hole. Just pull it out and stick it in a drawer until you sell, then pop it in and no one will be the wiser. It is truly as simple as that description.

dprice03

Thanks for that info, but I'm confused, what do you mean? My current Lexus RX350 has the keyless entry and pushbutton start. With the Lexus, the key has to be in or near the vehicle to get in and then hit the start button to start it. So you always have to have the keys, you just don't have to insert them anywhere to get in or start it. How exactly is the MB keyless go system different?

DFW01E55

The MB system is some kind of RFID assembly (or something) that is inserted into the ignition hole for the key. It just snaps in place.
If the assembly is not there, the key must be inserted to start the car.
If the assembly is in place, the key only needs to be within a few feet in order to start the car.

Sometimes contact between the assembly and the key fails (anyone? Bueller?) and the message center tells you to extract the assembly and start the car using the key. So you pull the Keyless Go assembly out and insert the key and voila! - ignition.

Barry45RPM

The MB system does not use a permanently installed button instead of a permanently installed ignition switch. You press into a special but similar ignition switch a "Push to Start" labeled button onto which beneath the button is attached the bottom part of an MB key. It will stay in the ignition switch as long as you want to have push to start, but can be pulled out and off like you were removing a key with a cap attached, and put in your pocket or a drawer.

This button topped key will only work when you have a regular key in your pocket so no one else can start your car just by pressing the button.

The special ignition switch used on keyless go cars not only can be twisted to start with a regular key, but pushed in to start as well with the button top converter key inserted. Your choice to use the standard key at any time.

However, remember that MB ignition switches must be turned much farther to crank the car than any other manufacturer's ignition switch. Almost from the 10 o'clock position to the 5 o'clock position momentarily, then released to initiate cranking.