Hi all,

New to this forum, and new to MB.

Found a beautiful blue 2013 ML350 Bluetech package 1 and alot of options from a CPO MB in White Plains dealership. Made the purchase right before year end and picked up the car Jan 2016.

It guess that the car was just brought in and put for sale before CPO. The car was certified before I picked it up, but I think it was rushed and may have missed a few things.

On day of pick up, I noticed one led light on running board was out, then on the way home...engine light came on, then limp mode, missing first aid kit, and oil was dirty after 100 miles of an oil change, 2013 version of navigation.
No prob...another day or so, brought it back in to get things fixed. Took care of LED light, oil was normal because it was diesel, software upgrade was not important....so I was told. Engine light was fixed, should be out of limp mode. 10 miles on the way hone....limp mode again...no turbo!! Made a u-turn and sat with head mechanic to replicate the limp mode. Gave me a loaner and had the car for 1 wk. Picked up the car, drove for 1 wk and ran out of window washing fluid. Autozone only had the orange stuff instead of blue stuff. After filling..sensor still says low. Brought it back, "know-it-all" tech said I had to use MB brand fluid. He refilled it and sensor was bad. "I had broken it", but they will replace it. 2 hrs later, drove home. Next day...low washer fluid again. Still finding time to return the car for repair.
In the 25 days and 900 miles of owning the car, 40% of mileage was from going and coming back to service center.

Is this a superior and exceptional experience ..do you think the service dept is on par?

 

Kind of odd that I use the Orange RainX and have had no problems on my ML350 Bluetec nor my CL. Others do have problems with it.

 

Here we go again... you bought someone else's (ab)used and discarded goods (all leased cars are pretty much by definition abused - I don't give damn about the things either if I don't have to worry about the repair bills). Use cheap fluids, skimp on mainenance, redline them from a cold start at -25 C, jump over curbs and basically treat it with the same amount of care as I do the shoes or pants I wear while I wrench on my cars or paint my living room. You should have bought a new Kia instead, but you bought a 4-year-old Benz instead because of badge appeal and are now complaining about the maintenance? Take it back and buy the Kia if you still have the chance, or sell it privately and cut your loses while you still can.

 

The previous poster was a bit harsh. I bought a 2012 ML350 a year ago in a private sale, and have had no issues at all. These are good vehicles... and you have a CPO warranty.

You've had a poor introduction to the ML. You should start with the head at the dealership, and firmly get him to apply some priority to the repair. If that doesn't work, then go up the chain. If it's a local car, the dealer should have the full service history to see if this is a recurring problem.

 

We got our 2012 ML350 4matic in 2014 from a Benz dealer, and have had absolutely no issues. They even replaced our cabin filter for free when we complained about a smelly odor coming on when the A/C was turned on. Still on warranty until May 2017, and quite happy with it.

 

Yeah, someone needs anger management and math classes.

My disappointment was more with MB service department than the vehicle itself. Had everyone done their jobs correctly, I wouldnt be so annoyed. A simple oversight isnt a problem, but to say everything was fixed then send the customer home only to have him return the next day over the same repair (twice) doesnt leave a positive impression with the service department or the brand.

This experience was conveyed to MBUSA, which was followed up by the sales person, vp of the dealership, head of service, blah, blah, blah. End result was the standard "super nice and concern" phone call to see what can be done.....but never a follow-up. This explains why the servicing dept only have 2 stars on yelp..

- This being a diesel, would the oil turn dark only after 100 miles?
- Should the Navigation map version be updated, or are street updates automatic and this is just the OEM installation date?

 

I can't remember how long the oil took took to turn dark when I changed it last year, but it was quite fast. So fast that I was going to drain via the drain plug this year as I thought that some old oil must have stayed behind from the dipstick vacuum.

We keep wondering about updating the navigation but we have not for the year we've owned the vehicle. The sad fact is that google maps on your phone is more up to date, better and free, so we rarely use the built in nav... and your phone communicates via bluetooth so you'll hear the driving commands over the audio system.

 

Indeed... when do you start?

What was harsh? Pointing out the obvious - that a used car is going to require about 10% of its value when new in annual maintenance, that things (organic or mechanical) tend to break down after a while, or that owners that lease their cars (and thus end up for sale as CPO vehicles) are nowhere near as careful about maitaining their vehicles as those who have bought them outright and intend to own them for a longer time period?

You bought someone else's used goods - so please don't go moaning how this doesn't work or that doesn't work. If the vehicle was still immaculate and there was a reasonble expectation that it would provide many more maintenance- and trouble-free miles, the original owner would have likely kept it.

In addition to the math and anger management (er -whining), someone needs "reality check 101" classes.

 

The OP bought a vehicle from Mercedes that was covered by a CPO warranty, and you're suggesting he should not complain if something doesn't work?


I bought an ML last year that was immaculate and trouble free, but that was a bad decision on my part because if it was in such good shape, the original owner would have kept it?


Everyone that buys an off-lease car is making a bad decision because leased cars are mistreated?


Manufacturers are making bad decisions by offering CPO warranties on leased cars because the engines were redlined at -25C and the engine must be about to blow up?


Reality check: Vehicles are much more reliable now than they ever used to be and new car sales are a small percentage of overall vehicle trades. You may only buy new cars and not want to take the risk on an unknown vehicle, but that doesn't mean that the rest of the world is wrong.


My last vehicle was an off-lease 1998 BMW 540i. Sticker price when new was $75k. It was 18 years old when I sold it, and I spent less than $300/yr on average over my 16 years of ownership in maintenance excluding tires. That's less than about 0.4% of the new car price per year, not 10%. My wife drives the 14 year old minivan with 255,000km on it - maintenance cost has also been around 0.4%/year. We currently have had the 2012 ML for 1 year. There have been no warranty issues and I spent $80 doing the oil change and other required checks myself.


What I found on my BMW was that there were common issues to that model. You can even google them: "BMW 540 They all do that". Those items ranged from easy to moderate DIY repairs, but all of them cost under $300 and had complete instructions available on the internet from other BMW 540 owners. Parts, whether aftermarket or OEM, were easy to find on the internet, and they were cheap compared to costs at the dealer.


I have not seen such a list for the ML yet, but I hope that that's what this site and others like it is for. By sharing information with others, I expect that my car will have the same low cost of ownership that my BMW had over the long term.

 

I am suggesting that he bought someone else's used and possibly uncared for car, which is now at the stage where a number of things are going to start failing as they are at the end of their useful life and that the car is going to need a lot more in repairs than a new one would.



Only you can decide whether that was a bad decision or not based on how much money you end up pouring into it over the next few years (or maybe the car has emotional appeal to you and the money you put into it is not relevant). And yes, if the original owner was still in love with it and enamored by it, he wouldn't have traded it in. I kept my E30 M3, 928GT, 993TT and my E55 because I still loved them many years after the warranty expired.


Absolutely - or at the very least, they are making a compromise by taking a large risk at best. Generally speaking, leased cars are not treated nearly as nice as cars that have been outright bought by the previous owners (with the intention of being kept for the long term). Furthermore, if the cars were reliable and dependable, more people would have opted to pay out what they owe at the end of the term and keep them. There is a flood of used 2012 MLs on the market. Does that tell you anything?


A leased car is no diferent from a rented one. When was the last time you changed the oil or polished and waxed a rental? How about a leased one? Now, if you've ever outright bought or financed a new car, how often would you change the oil, polish and wax it when compared to the leased vehicle - at least while you were happy with it and had every intention of keeping it?



No - manufacturers are making great decisions. They are making a decent amount of profit reselling the same car twice, with a CPO warranty that's just long enough and/or only covers major components (the ones that are unlikely to fail during the CPO period). It's the used car buyers that are making the bad decisons, not the manufacturers.

WRONG. Here's another reality check for you: *ALL* manufacturters are now building cars that are only built to last a certain number of years before they fall apart. If they built cars that would never break down, they'd go out of business as most of the cars would still be on the road. It's called built-in obsolescence, and it's now very prevalent in the auto industry. Look it up.



I am sincerely happy for you and am glad to hear that. I also had an E39 M5 that I kept for eight years, and still have cars dating back to the late 80s that are going strong - but in general, vehicles are no longer built the way they were. I got rid of the M5 when it started to spend more time on the hoist than it was worth and bought an E55 which I still have. Now, at the same time I also had an E46 M3... guuess how long I kept that one? It went back to the dealer the moment the lease was up. Multiple recurring VANOS problems, SMG gremlins and it has started to crack around the rear subframe. Two years in I knew that it's not a car I wanted to keep. How did it get treated during those last two years? Well... let's just say, nowhere near as nice as the M5 or any of the old P-cars. And, while some 14-year-old cars were built to last (not MBs BTW - those were MB's worst days during their marriage to Chrysler), the new ones simply aren't.



The site is indeed useful for sharing information, but I am afraid that "sharing information" and "low cost of ownership" have absolutely nothing to do with each other. I sincerely hope they will last as long - but something tells me that they won't. You can tell it was built in Alabama and not in Bremen, even on a brand-new specimen, and that it was built to a specific price point. And, there's enough little things going wrong on four-year-old cars to suggest otherwise - this post being a case in point - things that on average either took much longer to wear out or never broke down on my old cars that I still kept.


May you all have happy, trouble-free motoring for many years... but if you think that a lease-end used (and especially premium) vehicle nowadays is a smart purchase, you're simply deluding yourself.

 

On every Forum, there is always someone expressing opinions that are based on a singular experience track and or biases of their own choosing. Most often, these opinions are without real world merit and filled with hyperbole. Determining that somehow a two year old lease return is worthless and they just don't "Make them like they used to" is an example and ridiculous.


I spent four decades in the business as everything from a service manager to owner operator of multiple franchises. Over that period of time, I witnessed first hand the continued improvement in quality and reliability of the vehicles produced.


I also operated stores where the majority of the vehicles were leased and saw first hand how these vehicles were treated and cared for. On average, there is no better used vehicle than a two or three year old lease return. In the majority of the cases, the lessee took pride in the vehicle and cared for it. Certainly there are the exceptions but they are a small minority.


Judging from the OP's narration, the problem lies in the service department, not the vehicle. If the problems continue, I would suggest trying another dealership for repairs or scheduling an appointment with the selling dealership's owner or General Manager to reach a satisfactory solution to fixing the vehicle.

 

My post was to share my experience with the vehicle and imply the quality of the service department at a particular dealership. I had hoped someone reading would chime in and maybe shed some light on some of the technical problems from their ownership experiences. I doubt that I'm the only customer ever whos had a low washer fluid message, when the tank was actually filled or ever experience limp mode on a bluetec.

On every forum, there is always that one guy who takes a simple question or comment and goes off on a tangent....as if there is an award for the most posts. Maybe its "the more I post, the smarter I sound to stranger" syndrome. This big man loves to share his wisdom while insulting or putting down others. By carefully but obviously mentioning all his m3s, x5s, and Porsches, he must be a big swinging duck.......sounds more like bragging or boasting to strangers who dont five a flying **** than "sharing information'. This person always need to have the last word, so I'm betting my Cessan Skycatcher we'll hear from him again.

So, in the spirit of sharing information:
- The low wiper fluid message was a Technical Service Bulletin and they forgot to replace the SAM unit after sensor replacement. So I dont think the color of the washer fluid really matters. Definitely dont think it needs the MB brand.
- limp mode was due to soot content of the diesel particulate filter and performed guided tests.
- Dirty oil...given their service performance...I'll probably just get an oil change later in the month regardless of what they claim they did.
- rear trunk does not open manually all the time was due to software issue.

There are plenty of MB dealerships closer than this one and have higher customer rating. Since they sold me the vehicle, I felt that they should stand by it at least until my first car payment. I'll be visiting other service centers with higher rating instead next time and probably still need to deal with their up-selling.

 

Gents - by all means... whatever it takes to make you feel better. If your little fragile egos can't take it, maybe you should form a support group and go out to see a movie together or something. My experience is based on 25 years in the auto service indistry (specifically European imports), but it's more or less a free world and even ostriches are allowed to have their opinion. You're contradicting yourselves and you're very obviously in denial ("used cars are great - mine just happened to have four problems the day I picked it up but I must have just imagined it as they are always great buys") but I'll butt out and let you be. Enjoy your rides and your Cessna. For your sake I hope you didn't buy that one CPO'd...

 

The oil in the om642 as with most if not all modern diesels gets black extremely quickly. I did an oil change after an hour idle and about 20 minutes around town driving and it was as black as the 8k mile oil.
As for the issues when I bought my 2001 C320 it had about 3k of warranty left and even after that ended for about another 2-3k it was always at the dealer getting something fixed. Then it stopped having issues and got to 215k with very little issues so next time it is in ask them to do a full inspection as a courtesy as it keeps having to come back.

 

Hopefully you have it back and everything is running well. My 2013 blutec was awesome, never had any issues with it (leased...gasp...oh the poor maintenance). I lease my vehicles because I like to get a new one frequently, I also take exceptional care of them. I don't think think a lease return or any other used car will be any different. Enjoy that V6 diesel! Don't worry about that angry guy either, for a guy with a decent post count he doesn't reflect the group here... he resembles more of an antagonistic troll. I am not sure when this became a place to treat others poorly while complain bragging but I am hoping the Mods step in and shoot him a PM to clean it up before he takes things too far and get banned! Welcome to the board

 

Wow - I've never been called an antagonistioc troll before. I must put it in my memoirs. While I like to think that I've contributed a fair bit to the community here (certainly others on this board seem to think so), you guys still have your panties in a twist because someone had a different opinion from yours? Bragging? What on earth are you guys talking about?And please - I urge you to report me to the mods, but other than saying "Daddy - this guy hurt my feelings... he told me that I was stupid when I was being stupid", I really don't know what else you could have possibly found offensive and we can all have a good laugh. Hell, I'd even report myself just for good measure if I only knew what you were on about.

Yes, it's a big bad Internet and not everyone is only going to say things that you want to hear. Either take it like a grown up or feel free go back to whatever little rock you crawled out from under. At least until I get banned because I disagreed with your opinion.

 

Diabolis - Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it isn't true. There seems to be a way you present your idea's that rubs some of us the wrong way. Feel free to keep going, you just keep proving us right

 

It's a very lonely man who keep talking just to pretend the sound might fill up his empty life..