ML250/350 BT owners
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 897
Likes: 94
From: at the mercedes dealer next to you
2020 GLE350 2020 Toyota Rav4H AWD XLE
ML250/350 BT owners
Hello guys,
I had a question for those who have either of these models as their daily drivers. Yes, i know the diesel models are not advised, but i have a heavy daily commute (about 60-100 miles/day) and i was wondering
if y'all could comment on the reliability of each model, the 250 BT model and the 350 BT model. Not looking to pull any triggers at the moment but just doing some research on it.
I had a question for those who have either of these models as their daily drivers. Yes, i know the diesel models are not advised, but i have a heavy daily commute (about 60-100 miles/day) and i was wondering
if y'all could comment on the reliability of each model, the 250 BT model and the 350 BT model. Not looking to pull any triggers at the moment but just doing some research on it.
Member
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 99
Likes: 26
2002 Ml320, 2012 ML350 & Slk55
Given the minimal improvement in fuel economy of the diesel over the gas version I would go gas.
It will cost more to run but heaps less to maintain.
Pay a little now and save a bundle later.
It will cost more to run but heaps less to maintain.
Pay a little now and save a bundle later.
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 897
Likes: 94
From: at the mercedes dealer next to you
2020 GLE350 2020 Toyota Rav4H AWD XLE
I had the gas model and as a daily driver its terrible, got under 20 MPG altogether, do you know what MPG you get with your BT model?
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 20
Likes: 2
ML 350
I have a 2014 ML 350 BT with 85k miles (spouses car actually). On the highway, the mileage is around 28, 30 if I don't push it. I do love the torque the diesel provides and like the driving experience of a big luxury SUV. I also like being able to drive over 500 miles on a fill up. That said, the premium for diesel fuel where I live over regular gas is around 80 cents. That varies, but for the most part diesel costs more. That negates the mileage savings. As the other poster mentioned, maintenance on the BTs is stupid expensive. I change my own oil every 5k and it's not cheap. It takes 8 quarts of oil. IMO the emissions systems are the downfall of the car. The AdBlue system is very expensive to repair as is the DPF. To me, a full delete of both might go a long way to making the car reliable. Hate to say it, but if you want reliable luxury SUV, buy a Toyota 4Runner Premium or Lexus GX460. I have a 20 year old Tundra with 262k which does not burn or leak a drop of oil. A few weeks back I drove it to Houston, a round trip of 2000 miles, with no issues at all (except frequent stops at gas stations).
Last edited by davidbr93; Feb 5, 2020 at 05:38 PM.
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 897
Likes: 94
From: at the mercedes dealer next to you
2020 GLE350 2020 Toyota Rav4H AWD XLE
I have a 2014 ML 350 BT with 85k miles (spouses car actually). On the highway, the mileage is around 28, 30 if I don't push it. I do love the torque the diesel provides and like the driving experience of a big luxury SUV. I also like being able to drive over 500 miles on a fill up. That said, the premium for diesel fuel where I live over regular gas is around 80 cents. That varies, but for the most part diesel costs more. That negates the mileage savings. As the other poster mentioned, maintenance on the BTs is stupid expensive. I change my own oil every 5k and it's not cheap. It takes 8 quarts of oil. IMO the emissions systems are the downfall of the car. The AdBlue system is very expensive to repair as is the DPF. To me, a full delete of both might go a long way to making the car reliable. Hate to say it, but if you want reliable luxury SUV, buy a Toyota 4Runner Premium or Lexus GX460. I have a 20 year old Tundra with 262k which does not burn or leak a drop of oil. A few weeks back I drove it to Houston, a round trip of 2000 miles, with no issues at all (except frequent stops at gas stations).
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 487
Likes: 114
From: DFW, TX
Ml350 bluetec
I drive a 24014 ML 350 BT, with 82563.0 miles. Since November I have put on 5947 miles. Been good for me so far. Although last year I did have to get the oil-cooler replaced but that was done under warranty. I currently do have 2 dead NOx sensors that I am ignoring for now. Some have stated the emissions stuff is the weak point of the BT. But otherwise, the power is much better than the regular V6. Some have pointed out the fuel-cost differences, and compared the cost of the diesel with the RUG, when they should be comparing with the PUG. 91 Octane is required, so not sure why anyone would be comparing RUG vs Diesel.....when they should be comparing Premium with Diesel. And diesel where I live is a lot less than Premium....So the cost savings from fuel cost alone is worth it, combined with not having to replace any spark plugs!!!!!
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 897
Likes: 94
From: at the mercedes dealer next to you
2020 GLE350 2020 Toyota Rav4H AWD XLE
I drive a 24014 ML 350 BT, with 82563.0 miles. Since November I have put on 5947 miles. Been good for me so far. Although last year I did have to get the oil-cooler replaced but that was done under warranty. I currently do have 2 dead NOx sensors that I am ignoring for now. Some have stated the emissions stuff is the weak point of the BT. But otherwise, the power is much better than the regular V6. Some have pointed out the fuel-cost differences, and compared the cost of the diesel with the RUG, when they should be comparing with the PUG. 91 Octane is required, so not sure why anyone would be comparing RUG vs Diesel.....when they should be comparing Premium with Diesel. And diesel where I live is a lot less than Premium....So the cost savings from fuel cost alone is worth it, combined with not having to replace any spark plugs!!!!!
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Member
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 99
Likes: 26
2002 Ml320, 2012 ML350 & Slk55
MY 2012 ML350 Gas has 92,000Klm on it (57,000 miles) and for the life of the car it's averaging 23 USMPG.
I don't think a diesel will do too much better. I can go 650 miles on a tank of fuel. We have the big ML63 tanks on all Australian delivered W166s.
I don't drive like an old codger. I'm an ex race and rally driver and drive cars hard.
I don't think a diesel will do too much better. I can go 650 miles on a tank of fuel. We have the big ML63 tanks on all Australian delivered W166s.
I don't drive like an old codger. I'm an ex race and rally driver and drive cars hard.
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Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 14,666
Likes: 4,569
From: unbegrenzt
2017 GLE350 4MATIC
Here is some napkin math:
Fuel economy
Diesel 30mpg
Gas 20mpg
Fuel price
Diesel $3.10 per gallon
Gas $2.30 per gallon
Fuel Cost
Diesel 10.3 cents per mile
Gas 11.5 cents per mile
20,000 miles per year driven
1.2 cents per mile diesel advantage x 20k miles per year = $240 per year fuel cost savings
DEF fluid $15 per 2.5 gallon jug
DEF 5,000 miles per 2.5 gallon jug
20k miles per year / 5k miles per 2.5 gallons = 4 x 2.5 gallon jugs = $60 per year in DEF
$240 per year fuel cost savings - $60 per year DEF cost = $180 per year fuel cost savings
To me, $180 per year savings is nil, when compared to the actual cost of maintaining the diesel, in terms of oil and filter changes, DEF fluid, and paying for well known reliability issues.
Actually, it's less than nil.
Don't do the diesel.
Fuel economy
Diesel 30mpg
Gas 20mpg
Fuel price
Diesel $3.10 per gallon
Gas $2.30 per gallon
Fuel Cost
Diesel 10.3 cents per mile
Gas 11.5 cents per mile
20,000 miles per year driven
1.2 cents per mile diesel advantage x 20k miles per year = $240 per year fuel cost savings
DEF fluid $15 per 2.5 gallon jug
DEF 5,000 miles per 2.5 gallon jug
20k miles per year / 5k miles per 2.5 gallons = 4 x 2.5 gallon jugs = $60 per year in DEF
$240 per year fuel cost savings - $60 per year DEF cost = $180 per year fuel cost savings
To me, $180 per year savings is nil, when compared to the actual cost of maintaining the diesel, in terms of oil and filter changes, DEF fluid, and paying for well known reliability issues.
Actually, it's less than nil.
Don't do the diesel.
Last edited by chassis; Feb 5, 2020 at 08:33 PM.
Member
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 236
Likes: 30
From: Florida
2013 ML350 Bluetec, 2016 C3, 2020 Lincoln Aviator
Here is some napkin math:
Fuel economy
Diesel 30mpg
Gas 20mpg
Fuel price
Diesel $3.10 per gallon
Gas $2.30 per gallon
Fuel Cost
Diesel 10.3 cents per mile
Gas 11.5 cents per mile
20,000 miles per year driven
1.2 cents per mile diesel advantage x 20k miles per year = $240 per year fuel cost savings
DEF fluid $15 per 2.5 gallon jug
DEF 5,000 miles per 2.5 gallon jug
20k miles per year / 5k miles per 2.5 gallons = 4 x 2.5 gallon jugs = $60 per year in DEF
$240 per year fuel cost savings - $60 per year DEF cost = $180 per year fuel cost savings
To me, $180 per year savings is nil, when compared to the actual cost of maintaining the diesel, in terms of oil and filter changes, DEF fluid, and paying for well known reliability issues.
Actually, it's less than nil.
Don't do the diesel.
Fuel economy
Diesel 30mpg
Gas 20mpg
Fuel price
Diesel $3.10 per gallon
Gas $2.30 per gallon
Fuel Cost
Diesel 10.3 cents per mile
Gas 11.5 cents per mile
20,000 miles per year driven
1.2 cents per mile diesel advantage x 20k miles per year = $240 per year fuel cost savings
DEF fluid $15 per 2.5 gallon jug
DEF 5,000 miles per 2.5 gallon jug
20k miles per year / 5k miles per 2.5 gallons = 4 x 2.5 gallon jugs = $60 per year in DEF
$240 per year fuel cost savings - $60 per year DEF cost = $180 per year fuel cost savings
To me, $180 per year savings is nil, when compared to the actual cost of maintaining the diesel, in terms of oil and filter changes, DEF fluid, and paying for well known reliability issues.
Actually, it's less than nil.
Don't do the diesel.
$3.10 per gallon for diesel? Not where I live. About $2.80 avg here
$2.30 per gallon for premium gas? NO WAY. About $3.00 avg here. Why would you compare to regular?
Member
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 99
Likes: 26
2002 Ml320, 2012 ML350 & Slk55
Kartergreg,
OK do the maths (or math as you say) with your figures and include an oil and filter change every 5,000miles compared to 20,000 miles for a gas vehicle.
Why not factor in an Add Blue problem every 4 years and see how it looks.
OK do the maths (or math as you say) with your figures and include an oil and filter change every 5,000miles compared to 20,000 miles for a gas vehicle.
Why not factor in an Add Blue problem every 4 years and see how it looks.
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 897
Likes: 94
From: at the mercedes dealer next to you
2020 GLE350 2020 Toyota Rav4H AWD XLE
Here is some napkin math:
Fuel economy
Diesel 30mpg
Gas 20mpg
Fuel price
Diesel $3.10 per gallon
Gas $2.30 per gallon
Fuel Cost
Diesel 10.3 cents per mile
Gas 11.5 cents per mile
20,000 miles per year driven
1.2 cents per mile diesel advantage x 20k miles per year = $240 per year fuel cost savings
DEF fluid $15 per 2.5 gallon jug
DEF 5,000 miles per 2.5 gallon jug
20k miles per year / 5k miles per 2.5 gallons = 4 x 2.5 gallon jugs = $60 per year in DEF
$240 per year fuel cost savings - $60 per year DEF cost = $180 per year fuel cost savings
To me, $180 per year savings is nil, when compared to the actual cost of maintaining the diesel, in terms of oil and filter changes, DEF fluid, and paying for well known reliability issues.
Actually, it's less than nil.
Don't do the diesel.
Fuel economy
Diesel 30mpg
Gas 20mpg
Fuel price
Diesel $3.10 per gallon
Gas $2.30 per gallon
Fuel Cost
Diesel 10.3 cents per mile
Gas 11.5 cents per mile
20,000 miles per year driven
1.2 cents per mile diesel advantage x 20k miles per year = $240 per year fuel cost savings
DEF fluid $15 per 2.5 gallon jug
DEF 5,000 miles per 2.5 gallon jug
20k miles per year / 5k miles per 2.5 gallons = 4 x 2.5 gallon jugs = $60 per year in DEF
$240 per year fuel cost savings - $60 per year DEF cost = $180 per year fuel cost savings
To me, $180 per year savings is nil, when compared to the actual cost of maintaining the diesel, in terms of oil and filter changes, DEF fluid, and paying for well known reliability issues.
Actually, it's less than nil.
Don't do the diesel.
Super Member
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 522
Likes: 69
From: North Texas
Presently 19 S560 SEDAN, 2014 XK, SOLD GLE 450e
Would not ever own a gas over the diesel. I've 2014 ML350 Bluetec with 122,000 miles. I drive it at five over the speed limit for hundreds of miles from Tx to Ca and Tx to Ne and Canada. No regrets at all. IF, and they won't, make a GLE 3.0 liter Bluetec I might be in the mkt for one.
Milage varies. I've driven from Ft Worth to North Padre island, a distance of 434 miles to the beach at a constant 70 mph and gotten 30-31 mpg. NOT worth it. Dangerous on I-35 and I-37. Same drive at a normal 80mph lI get but 24-25 mpg, and it's worth the time saved and few pennies more in diesel. Safer also I might add.
If BMW still sold a 535D I'd buy one. Wont happen since they're out of the diesel car business as far as I can see.
Milage varies. I've driven from Ft Worth to North Padre island, a distance of 434 miles to the beach at a constant 70 mph and gotten 30-31 mpg. NOT worth it. Dangerous on I-35 and I-37. Same drive at a normal 80mph lI get but 24-25 mpg, and it's worth the time saved and few pennies more in diesel. Safer also I might add.
If BMW still sold a 535D I'd buy one. Wont happen since they're out of the diesel car business as far as I can see.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 1,234
Likes: 155
From: Montreal/Cape Coral FL
2012 X6 35i Sport, 2013 ML 350 BT, 2019 4Runner TRD Pro, 2020 CRV-AWD
If you can delete the EGR/DEF/DPF, then a diesel ain't that bad a choice. As mentioned by others, change the oil more often and if you do a lot of stop'n go in a warm climate, lose the belly pan and engine cover to keep under-hood temps low(er). Some say that it makes no difference. I know it can't hurt in the conditions mentioned above.
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 20
Likes: 2
ML 350
If you can delete the EGR/DEF/DPF, then a diesel ain't that bad a choice. As mentioned by others, change the oil more often and if you do a lot of stop'n go in a warm climate, lose the belly pan and engine cover to keep under-hood temps low(er). Some say that it makes no difference. I know it can't hurt in the conditions mentioned above.
I replaced my air filters this weekend. Anyone else wonder what the hell they were thinking when they designed a 100 set of air filters glued into the housing?
Super Member
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 522
Likes: 69
From: North Texas
Presently 19 S560 SEDAN, 2014 XK, SOLD GLE 450e
I've had two engine check lights this last year and both were EGR related. I cleared the code with a scanner and they never came back That said, EGR's can be cleaned. See Youtube for at least two videos of cleaning a EGR on a bluetec.
Never had a problem with the Adblue. I keep a gallon or so of DEF on hand and keep it topped off well before I go ten K miles b/t fillings. Never had a DEF heater problem either. One mechanic suggested it's because i drive on long trips a lot more than in city driving.
Mercedes does not offer a diesel in the GLE etc anymore. Cadillac has an Escalade with a 3.0 liter diesel coming this summer. More hp than my ML and more torque plus a two gallon larger fuel tank. Never owned a Caddy before and never ever longed for one.......but this Caddy caught my attention. Get on the ball Mercedes.
Never had a problem with the Adblue. I keep a gallon or so of DEF on hand and keep it topped off well before I go ten K miles b/t fillings. Never had a DEF heater problem either. One mechanic suggested it's because i drive on long trips a lot more than in city driving.
Mercedes does not offer a diesel in the GLE etc anymore. Cadillac has an Escalade with a 3.0 liter diesel coming this summer. More hp than my ML and more torque plus a two gallon larger fuel tank. Never owned a Caddy before and never ever longed for one.......but this Caddy caught my attention. Get on the ball Mercedes.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 14,666
Likes: 4,569
From: unbegrenzt
2017 GLE350 4MATIC
Update to the analysis above.
Change diesel price to $2.50/gal. Leave regular gasoline price at $2.30/gal. These are the prices in my area today.
This gives diesel a $600 per year fuel cost advantage. Subtract $60 per year for DEF and $400 per year for oil changes (4 per year @ $100 at the dealer) and the diesel running cost savings is $140 per year.
No way would I go with a vehicle, for $140/yr in operating cost savings, that has the known reliability of a Mercedes Bluetec. DIY the oil changes and it doesn't change my answer.
Change diesel price to $2.50/gal. Leave regular gasoline price at $2.30/gal. These are the prices in my area today.
This gives diesel a $600 per year fuel cost advantage. Subtract $60 per year for DEF and $400 per year for oil changes (4 per year @ $100 at the dealer) and the diesel running cost savings is $140 per year.
No way would I go with a vehicle, for $140/yr in operating cost savings, that has the known reliability of a Mercedes Bluetec. DIY the oil changes and it doesn't change my answer.
Super Member
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 706
Likes: 114
From: Los Angeles, CA
'22 GLE 350 | '15 ML250 | '87 560SL | '19 GLC 300 | '12 C250 (sold) | '02 ML500 | '98 C230
Hello guys,
I had a question for those who have either of these models as their daily drivers. Yes, i know the diesel models are not advised, but i have a heavy daily commute (about 60-100 miles/day) and i was wondering
if y'all could comment on the reliability of each model, the 250 BT model and the 350 BT model. Not looking to pull any triggers at the moment but just doing some research on it.
I had a question for those who have either of these models as their daily drivers. Yes, i know the diesel models are not advised, but i have a heavy daily commute (about 60-100 miles/day) and i was wondering
if y'all could comment on the reliability of each model, the 250 BT model and the 350 BT model. Not looking to pull any triggers at the moment but just doing some research on it.
I think I'm one of the rarities around here that has the 250BT, and I love it. I did a lot of research with the known issues (discussed around here ad nauseam) of the issues with the OM642 vs the OM651 before pulling the trigger, and I'm at 70k miles with zero issues beyond the scheduled maintenance.
I also think having the last model year ML, and that particular engine being fine tuned in the Mercedes Sprinter fleet has it advantages.
It's also fun having this particular ML that was only made for 1 year in the US.
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 487
Likes: 114
From: DFW, TX
Ml350 bluetec
Update to the analysis above.
Change diesel price to $2.50/gal. Leave regular gasoline price at $2.30/gal. These are the prices in my area today.
This gives diesel a $600 per year fuel cost advantage. Subtract $60 per year for DEF and $400 per year for oil changes (4 per year @ $100 at the dealer) and the diesel running cost savings is $140 per year.
No way would I go with a vehicle, for $140/yr in operating cost savings, that has the known reliability of a Mercedes Bluetec. DIY the oil changes and it doesn't change my answer.
Change diesel price to $2.50/gal. Leave regular gasoline price at $2.30/gal. These are the prices in my area today.
This gives diesel a $600 per year fuel cost advantage. Subtract $60 per year for DEF and $400 per year for oil changes (4 per year @ $100 at the dealer) and the diesel running cost savings is $140 per year.
No way would I go with a vehicle, for $140/yr in operating cost savings, that has the known reliability of a Mercedes Bluetec. DIY the oil changes and it doesn't change my answer.
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 897
Likes: 94
From: at the mercedes dealer next to you
2020 GLE350 2020 Toyota Rav4H AWD XLE
Hey pal --
I think I'm one of the rarities around here that has the 250BT, and I love it. I did a lot of research with the known issues (discussed around here ad nauseam) of the issues with the OM642 vs the OM651 before pulling the trigger, and I'm at 70k miles with zero issues beyond the scheduled maintenance.
I also think having the last model year ML, and that particular engine being fine tuned in the Mercedes Sprinter fleet has it advantages.
It's also fun having this particular ML that was only made for 1 year in the US.
I think I'm one of the rarities around here that has the 250BT, and I love it. I did a lot of research with the known issues (discussed around here ad nauseam) of the issues with the OM642 vs the OM651 before pulling the trigger, and I'm at 70k miles with zero issues beyond the scheduled maintenance.
I also think having the last model year ML, and that particular engine being fine tuned in the Mercedes Sprinter fleet has it advantages.
It's also fun having this particular ML that was only made for 1 year in the US.
Super Member
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 706
Likes: 114
From: Los Angeles, CA
'22 GLE 350 | '15 ML250 | '87 560SL | '19 GLC 300 | '12 C250 (sold) | '02 ML500 | '98 C230
@we47b1me whats your MPG?
If I wasn't in the city, I'd be pushing into the 30's. If I'm on the highway and actually get to cruise, I'm around 27-35 depending on speed.
Member
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 236
Likes: 30
From: Florida
2013 ML350 Bluetec, 2016 C3, 2020 Lincoln Aviator
There is a lot more to the diesel than fuel economy, but most people just don't understand.
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 487
Likes: 114
From: DFW, TX
Ml350 bluetec
@Kartergreg , good point on the DEF, I spent maybe $25/year on DEF. Definitely not the $60/year on DEF. But for others to compare, I drove 8104 miles in 2019, and paid $1019 in diesel.
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 897
Likes: 94
From: at the mercedes dealer next to you
2020 GLE350 2020 Toyota Rav4H AWD XLE
I'm in stop and go traffic all day in LA, and get about 25 mpg on average out of a tank, roughly 500 miles gives or take each time. I fill up once a month.
If I wasn't in the city, I'd be pushing into the 30's. If I'm on the highway and actually get to cruise, I'm around 27-35 depending on speed.
If I wasn't in the city, I'd be pushing into the 30's. If I'm on the highway and actually get to cruise, I'm around 27-35 depending on speed.
