Workshop Destroyed My Engine
04-01-2020, 07:54 AM
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2013 ML350
Workshop Destroyed My Engine
Hi everyone
New user, first post.
I have a problem and I need some help from car enthusiasts like yourselves, hopefully I'm at the right place for that. It's going to be a long post, I'll try to be as brief as possible.
I own a 2013 ML 350 BT and a few months ago there was a small oil leak under the hood and I took the car immediately to the workshop, they added some oil and scheduled the car for a B-service. After they performed the B-service, they diagnosed the cause of the leak as being the seals of the intercooler, which they said had to be changed.
After performing the repairs, whilst the car was still in their custody and under care, they took the car to a test drive. During the test drive, the engine malfunctioned completely. Without taking the engine apart, they claimed the malfunction was due to to inadequate maintenance. Namely, as it turned out, the last owner hadn't been to regular maintenance from August 2015 to August 2018 (approx. 36,000 km driven during this period). This felt as totally made up reasoning to avoid responsibility on their part but as I'm not a car engine specialist I had no real options to contest their version.
Then they offered to replace the destroyed engine with a used one. I said yes and then they managed to destroy the new engine as well. It turned out that they had taken the oil pump from the original engine and used it on the new engine without even checking it first and it seems that the oil pump was the cause of the malfunction of both engines.
So now here I am, three months later, still with no working car and arguing with them who should take responsibility here.
Here are few questions that I have regarding this whole thing:
Any help is much appreciated. I'd be happy to answer any questions you might have about the situation.
Thanks in advance
delirans
New user, first post.
I have a problem and I need some help from car enthusiasts like yourselves, hopefully I'm at the right place for that. It's going to be a long post, I'll try to be as brief as possible.
I own a 2013 ML 350 BT and a few months ago there was a small oil leak under the hood and I took the car immediately to the workshop, they added some oil and scheduled the car for a B-service. After they performed the B-service, they diagnosed the cause of the leak as being the seals of the intercooler, which they said had to be changed.
After performing the repairs, whilst the car was still in their custody and under care, they took the car to a test drive. During the test drive, the engine malfunctioned completely. Without taking the engine apart, they claimed the malfunction was due to to inadequate maintenance. Namely, as it turned out, the last owner hadn't been to regular maintenance from August 2015 to August 2018 (approx. 36,000 km driven during this period). This felt as totally made up reasoning to avoid responsibility on their part but as I'm not a car engine specialist I had no real options to contest their version.
Then they offered to replace the destroyed engine with a used one. I said yes and then they managed to destroy the new engine as well. It turned out that they had taken the oil pump from the original engine and used it on the new engine without even checking it first and it seems that the oil pump was the cause of the malfunction of both engines.
So now here I am, three months later, still with no working car and arguing with them who should take responsibility here.
Here are few questions that I have regarding this whole thing:
- Does it really make sense that with no regular maintenance the engine just breaks down like that after an oil change (which they said it washed metal pieces off the engine and that caused the malfunction) or is it more likely they did a poor job with changing the seals of the intercooler?
- Is it plausible that the oil pump was defective before taking the car to the workshop and it was just a coincidence that it broke down after they had finished the repairs, or is there a better explanation that during the repairs they did something wrong that might have caused the oil pump (or the engine) to fail?
- Are there any crucial questions I should be asking them that would help me to find out the truth?
Any help is much appreciated. I'd be happy to answer any questions you might have about the situation.
Thanks in advance
delirans
04-01-2020, 11:28 AM
#2
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I am a retired dealer and former Service Director, before owning, so have some experience with these sorts of problems. You call it a workshop but don't mention whether you took your car to an authorized Mercedes dealer or an independent. If an independent, the first lesson is it can become much more a problem when things go wrong.
It certainly is not uncommon for things to break after the dealer makes repairs. It is frustrating but often happens when cars have a poor maintenance record. On the other hand, while one could argue the responsibility for the first repair subsequent to the first, a second engine failure is in my view inexcusable. It would be the dealer's responsibility to check for actual operation of transferred parts to the new engine. What we say is a "rookie mistake".
Personally, I would think the second repair is theirs. Every shop should carry liability insurance and they should be thinking about using it. If they hesitate, in most jurisdictions the shop operates with government consent. I would look at licensing agencies, consumer affairs outlets, etc. or even seek legal aid. It certainly seems you are worthy of consideration from the repair facility.
It certainly is not uncommon for things to break after the dealer makes repairs. It is frustrating but often happens when cars have a poor maintenance record. On the other hand, while one could argue the responsibility for the first repair subsequent to the first, a second engine failure is in my view inexcusable. It would be the dealer's responsibility to check for actual operation of transferred parts to the new engine. What we say is a "rookie mistake".
Personally, I would think the second repair is theirs. Every shop should carry liability insurance and they should be thinking about using it. If they hesitate, in most jurisdictions the shop operates with government consent. I would look at licensing agencies, consumer affairs outlets, etc. or even seek legal aid. It certainly seems you are worthy of consideration from the repair facility.
04-01-2020, 12:11 PM
#3
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Wow, just WOW! Sounds like Major incompetence! I reread your posting 3x. The oil pump somehow was responsible for Both engines... NO, No, NO! In the 1st engine, the dead oil pump would have signaled low oil pressure with the red idiot light on the dash. Same with the 2nd engine startup...! It sounds like someone drained the oil on the B service, then forgot to fill before said test drive. >>> seized it up>> with no oil, although the tech should have seen the idiot light??? Used engine... comes with no oil pump???? never heard of it. Recycling facilities send out complete engines. Why would someone open up a used engine to replace an oil pump with another 'used' one? Something is way out of wack with the story....?
I'd almost hazard a guess that they never changed out you engine!!! They may have freed it up, dumped some oil into it, and then the oil pump died from crap that they didn't clean out. For the fun of it ask to see the 2 engines, Is this an MB dealer?
I'd almost hazard a guess that they never changed out you engine!!! They may have freed it up, dumped some oil into it, and then the oil pump died from crap that they didn't clean out. For the fun of it ask to see the 2 engines, Is this an MB dealer?
04-01-2020, 03:36 PM
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You call it a workshop but don't mention whether you took your car to an authorized Mercedes dealer or an independent. If an independent, the first lesson is it can become much more a problem when things go wrong.
It certainly is not uncommon for things to break after the dealer makes repairs. It is frustrating but often happens when cars have a poor maintenance record. On the other hand, while one could argue the responsibility for the first repair subsequent to the first, a second engine failure is in my view inexcusable. It would be the dealer's responsibility to check for actual operation of transferred parts to the new engine. What we say is a "rookie mistake".
Personally, I would think the second repair is theirs. Every shop should carry liability insurance and they should be thinking about using it. If they hesitate, in most jurisdictions the shop operates with government consent. I would look at licensing agencies, consumer affairs outlets, etc. or even seek legal aid. It certainly seems you are worthy of consideration from the repair facility.
It certainly is not uncommon for things to break after the dealer makes repairs. It is frustrating but often happens when cars have a poor maintenance record. On the other hand, while one could argue the responsibility for the first repair subsequent to the first, a second engine failure is in my view inexcusable. It would be the dealer's responsibility to check for actual operation of transferred parts to the new engine. What we say is a "rookie mistake".
Personally, I would think the second repair is theirs. Every shop should carry liability insurance and they should be thinking about using it. If they hesitate, in most jurisdictions the shop operates with government consent. I would look at licensing agencies, consumer affairs outlets, etc. or even seek legal aid. It certainly seems you are worthy of consideration from the repair facility.
It's a huge dealership that mostly sells and services Hondas and Citroens, but they started the process of becoming a MB dealership as well. They have large MB logos on their walls etc, but I even contacted Daimler directly and it turned out that they're not an official dealership at this point, so they couldn't help me with the situation.
Second engine is not a problem, they know very well that they made a mistake by using an oil pump from the original engine even without testing it, that is a real rookie mistake, and they're covering all the costs for it.
But I'm still trying to figure out if the oil pump could have been damaged before taking the car to them or did they do something that caused that and, hence, crashed the engine. If it was damaged before, would it have been a standard practice for them to measure the pressure and make sure that the oil pump is also working properly before taking it on a testdrive after they changed intercooler seals? If yes, then I could argue with confidence that they did a poor job and tell them to fix the car on their expense.
04-01-2020, 03:50 PM
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Wow, just WOW! Sounds like Major incompetence! I reread your posting 3x. The oil pump somehow was responsible for Both engines... NO, No, NO! In the 1st engine, the dead oil pump would have signaled low oil pressure with the red idiot light on the dash. Same with the 2nd engine startup...! It sounds like someone drained the oil on the B service, then forgot to fill before said test drive. >>> seized it up>> with no oil, although the tech should have seen the idiot light??? Used engine... comes with no oil pump???? never heard of it. Recycling facilities send out complete engines. Why would someone open up a used engine to replace an oil pump with another 'used' one? Something is way out of wack with the story....?
I'd almost hazard a guess that they never changed out you engine!!! They may have freed it up, dumped some oil into it, and then the oil pump died from crap that they didn't clean out. For the fun of it ask to see the 2 engines, Is this an MB dealer?
I'd almost hazard a guess that they never changed out you engine!!! They may have freed it up, dumped some oil into it, and then the oil pump died from crap that they didn't clean out. For the fun of it ask to see the 2 engines, Is this an MB dealer?
I couldn't agree more that it sounds awfully incompetent on their part but it's really difficult to prove anything. I have to come up with proper specific questions to ask them regarding changing the intercooler seals. I.e. did you check the radiator, was there any signs of burned oil (which should be there if what they claim is true), etc.
No blinking warning lights when I took the car there, no idea if it happened when the car was there.
Second engine was from a S class and they said the pump didn't fit / couldn't be used. I don't know much more about that. After the B service I had the car for a week or so, until the right parts were delivered, so it couldn't have been that they forgot to fill it up.
04-01-2020, 05:24 PM
#6
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"I own a 2013 ML 350 BT and a few months ago there was a small oil leak under the hood and I took the car immediately to the workshop, they added some oil and scheduled the car for a B-service. After they performed the B-service, they diagnosed the cause of the leak as being the seals of the intercooler, which they said had to be changed.
After performing the repairs, whilst the car was still in their custody and under care, they took the car to a test drive. During the test drive, the engine malfunctioned completely"
and, on subsequent response...
"After the B service I had the car for a week or so, until the right parts were delivered, so it couldn't have been that they forgot to fill it up."
Am I missing something, or have you just changed the whole parameters of your situation....
In any event, when one is changing intercooler seals, most will change out the oil.... unless someone is being cheap. Most MB dealerships will simply charge the customer for this rather than take the shortcut.
... sorry to say, I'm starting to side with the dealership.... your statements don't correlate!
After performing the repairs, whilst the car was still in their custody and under care, they took the car to a test drive. During the test drive, the engine malfunctioned completely"
and, on subsequent response...
"After the B service I had the car for a week or so, until the right parts were delivered, so it couldn't have been that they forgot to fill it up."
Am I missing something, or have you just changed the whole parameters of your situation....
In any event, when one is changing intercooler seals, most will change out the oil.... unless someone is being cheap. Most MB dealerships will simply charge the customer for this rather than take the shortcut.
... sorry to say, I'm starting to side with the dealership.... your statements don't correlate!
04-01-2020, 05:53 PM
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"I own a 2013 ML 350 BT and a few months ago there was a small oil leak under the hood and I took the car immediately to the workshop, they added some oil and scheduled the car for a B-service. After they performed the B-service, they diagnosed the cause of the leak as being the seals of the intercooler, which they said had to be changed.
After performing the repairs, whilst the car was still in their custody and under care, they took the car to a test drive. During the test drive, the engine malfunctioned completely"
and, on subsequent response...
"After the B service I had the car for a week or so, until the right parts were delivered, so it couldn't have been that they forgot to fill it up."
Am I missing something, or have you just changed the whole parameters of your situation....
In any event, when one is changing intercooler seals, most will change out the oil.... unless someone is being cheap. Most MB dealerships will simply charge the customer for this rather than take the shortcut.
... sorry to say, I'm starting to side with the dealership.... your statements don't correlate!
After performing the repairs, whilst the car was still in their custody and under care, they took the car to a test drive. During the test drive, the engine malfunctioned completely"
and, on subsequent response...
"After the B service I had the car for a week or so, until the right parts were delivered, so it couldn't have been that they forgot to fill it up."
Am I missing something, or have you just changed the whole parameters of your situation....
In any event, when one is changing intercooler seals, most will change out the oil.... unless someone is being cheap. Most MB dealerships will simply charge the customer for this rather than take the shortcut.
... sorry to say, I'm starting to side with the dealership.... your statements don't correlate!
My point was that they didn't perform B service and changed intercooler seals on the same day, so it couldn't have been that someone tried to start the engine with no oil in the engine during B service. Hopefully cleared that point clear enough.
"In any event, when one is changing intercooler seals, most will change out the oil.... unless someone is being cheap"
Cmon man, no one even asked me if I wanted to change the oil or save a few bucks on that.
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04-01-2020, 06:11 PM
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"In any event, when one is changing intercooler seals, most will change out the oil.... unless someone is being cheap. Most MB dealerships will simply charge the customer for this rather than take the shortcut.
... sorry to say, I'm starting to side with the dealership.... your statements don't correlate!
... sorry to say, I'm starting to side with the dealership.... your statements don't correlate!
Last edited by delirans; 04-01-2020 at 06:22 PM.
04-01-2020, 06:41 PM
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"In any event, when one is changing intercooler seals, most will change out the oil.... unless someone is being cheap"
Cmon man, no one even asked me if I wanted to change the oil or save a few bucks on that.
Well.... If you believe you have a case, call MB ____ customer service. ____ Not sure where you're from, although your bill is in Euros. Your profile should be filled in! I would write out, in length, what has happened to you before calling/writing, to be sure all the facts/timelines can be substantiated.
good luck
Cmon man, no one even asked me if I wanted to change the oil or save a few bucks on that.
Well.... If you believe you have a case, call MB ____ customer service. ____ Not sure where you're from, although your bill is in Euros. Your profile should be filled in! I would write out, in length, what has happened to you before calling/writing, to be sure all the facts/timelines can be substantiated.
good luck
04-01-2020, 06:52 PM
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"In any event, when one is changing intercooler seals, most will change out the oil.... unless someone is being cheap"
Cmon man, no one even asked me if I wanted to change the oil or save a few bucks on that.
Well.... If you believe you have a case, call MB ____ customer service. ____ Not sure where you're from, although your bill is in Euros. Your profile should be filled in! I would write out, in length, what has happened to you before calling/writing, to be sure all the facts/timelines can be substantiated.
good luck
Cmon man, no one even asked me if I wanted to change the oil or save a few bucks on that.
Well.... If you believe you have a case, call MB ____ customer service. ____ Not sure where you're from, although your bill is in Euros. Your profile should be filled in! I would write out, in length, what has happened to you before calling/writing, to be sure all the facts/timelines can be substantiated.
good luck
I barely know anything about cars, that’s why I wanted to consult here with you guys. Am I being ignorant or am I being screwed over here, I really don’t know. Just considering everything it feels like I’m at the receiving end in this mess.
thanks again
