When to replace shocks/struts 2015 ML250?
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ML250 BlueTech
Well, we got the ML250 back today, with new shocks and struts, and a small oil leak fixed.
What they didn't fix was the original noise that caused me to look at this in the first place! Oh well, it's minor, especially considering:
We were about halfway home in a two-hour drive, reveling in how smooth and tight everything felt. The ride is much, much better now.
However, we noticed RPMs running a bit high, and a couple of surges under cruise control. A short time later, we noticed she wasn't shifting properly, running high RPMs and not going up to the next gear easily. Automatic downshifting was decent, but not for upshifting. We pulled over to 'reboot' and add fuel. I got in to drive and took her on the road. Although shifting was odd, I got up to 5th (with high RPMs) and we popped a Check Engine light.
I found that I could upshift using the manual paddle shifting. When I did, it would go into D5, D6, D7, etc., whereas normally it would show M5, M6, M7. We managed to make it home in one piece without a tow truck.
Joy. We had travel plans for all next week, and now have to cancel everything. But at least we're home now.
Any thoughts on what might've happened? The timing on this relative to picking it up from the dealer seems awfully suspicious.
What they didn't fix was the original noise that caused me to look at this in the first place! Oh well, it's minor, especially considering:
We were about halfway home in a two-hour drive, reveling in how smooth and tight everything felt. The ride is much, much better now.
However, we noticed RPMs running a bit high, and a couple of surges under cruise control. A short time later, we noticed she wasn't shifting properly, running high RPMs and not going up to the next gear easily. Automatic downshifting was decent, but not for upshifting. We pulled over to 'reboot' and add fuel. I got in to drive and took her on the road. Although shifting was odd, I got up to 5th (with high RPMs) and we popped a Check Engine light.
I found that I could upshift using the manual paddle shifting. When I did, it would go into D5, D6, D7, etc., whereas normally it would show M5, M6, M7. We managed to make it home in one piece without a tow truck.
Joy. We had travel plans for all next week, and now have to cancel everything. But at least we're home now.
Any thoughts on what might've happened? The timing on this relative to picking it up from the dealer seems awfully suspicious.
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ML250 BlueTech
Interesting question, @chassis Can you explain how the batteries would impact or cause the current symptoms?
I have had the aux battery replaced after a prompt message on the dash. Records indicate it was March 20, 2020. I don't recall ever replacing the main battery.
Bearing in mind that I don't know much about cars, I wish I could easily check the transmission fluid; it seems a good place to start.
My only options right now are to limp it into my local (non-dealership) shop for a code scan, or to flat-bed it to the dealership in Raleigh, two hours away. There is no way I'd feel safe manually shifting at highway speeds all the way there.
I'm. kind of freaking out about this issue. The car is effectively bricked, AFAIK.
I have had the aux battery replaced after a prompt message on the dash. Records indicate it was March 20, 2020. I don't recall ever replacing the main battery.
Bearing in mind that I don't know much about cars, I wish I could easily check the transmission fluid; it seems a good place to start.
My only options right now are to limp it into my local (non-dealership) shop for a code scan, or to flat-bed it to the dealership in Raleigh, two hours away. There is no way I'd feel safe manually shifting at highway speeds all the way there.
I'm. kind of freaking out about this issue. The car is effectively bricked, AFAIK.
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2017 GLE350 4MATIC
Batteries with less than 100% of performance create wacky situations on modern electronics-heavy cars such as MBs, BMWs, Porsches, etc.
Your main battery is far overdue for replacement. 4 years is my benchmark for battery replacement. So that both batteries are at the same level of function, it would be good practice if you replaced your 3-year old aux battery (again) at the same time the main battery is replaced. The aux battery is not expensive in comparison with the main.
The transmission gear selection servo and start-up functions are electric. Even if you don't have problems with start-stop or moving between PRND, battery replacement gets the vehicle electrical system into a known condition.
Next is transmission service, aka oil change. When was this last done?
Your main battery is far overdue for replacement. 4 years is my benchmark for battery replacement. So that both batteries are at the same level of function, it would be good practice if you replaced your 3-year old aux battery (again) at the same time the main battery is replaced. The aux battery is not expensive in comparison with the main.
The transmission gear selection servo and start-up functions are electric. Even if you don't have problems with start-stop or moving between PRND, battery replacement gets the vehicle electrical system into a known condition.
Next is transmission service, aka oil change. When was this last done?
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2013 ML550 US spec. Air+Offroad pkg
Are you sure you didnt accidentally put it into manual mode? Mine has a button on center console that puts it into manual mode that sometimes gets pressed. The "M" on dash gear readout indicates it is in manual mode. If you pull and hold the right paddle shifter, that will put it back into Auto shift mode.
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ML250 BlueTech
What are we looking at for the main? As I recall, the aux wasn't all that inexpensive, and involved an elevated labor charge.
And if the local shop scans the code and it points to something else (ECM, DPF*, etc.), wouldn't we want to address that first? *We've previously had serious, repeated issues with acceleration that, I believe, was tracked to the DPF.
I still find it quite suspicious that this happened only one hour out of the dealership after major work (they might've had to disconnect or move things to gain access, for e.g.), and yet I'm reluctant to lay any blame on them until further investigation. I mean, it is really coincidental, but correlation is not necessarily causation.
If you're referring to engine oil, now THAT is something that I keep up on regularly. My local shop pushes for every 5K, and I believe MB recommendation is every 10K. I land closer to the 5K mark, and it was done April 21st, one month ago with few miles travelled since then.
If you're referring to tranny fluid, well then, I can't tell you. I'd have to go through the records, but I don't recall anything.
Thanks for your help!
Rob
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ML250 BlueTech
Are you sure you didnt accidentally put it into manual mode? Mine has a button on center console that puts it into manual mode that sometimes gets pressed. The "M" on dash gear readout indicates it is in manual mode. If you pull and hold the right paddle shifter, that will put it back into Auto shift mode.
As mentioned, we pulled over to fill up and reboot the car. When I headed back onto the road, it shifted up to 5th gear -- although the RPMs were much higher than usual before the shift -- and the Check Engine light came on.
I soon found that I could shift up manually using the right paddle; downshifting seemed to be handled well by the car without left paddle inputs. While manually shifting, the gear indicators were ...D5, D6, D7... instead of M5, M6, M7 as I would have expected for manual shifting.
I may fire it up and take it around the neighborhood and will pull back the right paddle, but wouldn't that have been reset when shutting the car off?
And we still have the issue of the Check Engine light.
This problem is so acute that I can't and won't take it on the highway. It doesn't feel safe at all.
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2013 ML550 US spec. Air+Offroad pkg
Main battery, as I recall, was about US$200. Did it myself, under passenger, right side seat. Youtube videos show how. Little trick, push elec seat all the way forward, keep pressing forward button until stops. The seat actually lifts a little in that service position to help access. I got mine at dealer since was only like $15 more than a good Bosch non-MB branded. My OE batteries made it 9 or 10 years (last longer due to being inside and not exposed to as harsh environment....and probably better quality batteries). Rear Aux battery can be done yourself too, just be patient and remove all rear trim pieces to get down to it. Not hard. Youtube videos on that too (some better than others).
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ML250 BlueTech
Main battery, as I recall, was about US$200. Did it myself, under passenger, right side seat. Youtube videos show how. Little trick, push elec seat all the way forward, keep pressing forward button until stops. The seat actually lifts a little in that service position to help access. I got mine at dealer since was only like $15 more than a good Bosch non-MB branded. My OE batteries made it 9 or 10 years (last longer due to being inside and not exposed to as harsh environment....and probably better quality batteries). Rear Aux battery can be done yourself too, just be patient and remove all rear trim pieces to get down to it. Not hard. Youtube videos on that too (some better than others).
It's just out of my wheelhouse, having never done much of any repairs on any cars I've owned over about 45 years (carbon-dating myself, here). I can field strip a mountain bike, though, so I'm not completely hopeless.
However, I'll now see if I can get a date on the battery. It's likely original to the car.
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2013 ML550 US spec. Air+Offroad pkg
Correct, the restart would have put it back to Auto mode. You can buy a Dongle bluetooth reader for about $20 that links to your phone to pull codes...I use one called FIXD...works fine, and clears basic codes. Ive actually found codes and told dealer that they didnt even see! Good first line of diagnostics before high priced dealer trip. Id see what that code is first before anything else . Local autoparts store will usually be able to run a free code check for you too so you have an idea of what problem is.
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2013 ML550 US spec. Air+Offroad pkg
Reader/dongle tip...just use it to get the code, and look the code up on internet for description, dont use description the reader provides for code...isnt always complete or accurate, but will at least give you code. I use my FIXD on a number of cars from US, Germany, Japan and works fine.
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2017 GLE350 4MATIC
You need codes read, preferably by a dealer or indy shop. If you don't have those options then a parts retail store is your only choice.
Of course!
Summary:
- get codes read - indy shop or retail Advance Auto, etc can do this
- replace the main and aux batteries - indy shop can do this
- replace the tranny fluid at a dealer
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ML250 BlueTech
Update:
I fired up the car and took it for a spin around the neighborhood. Interestingly, things are a bit different today... if it's batteries, maybe they had overnight to "rest".
After warming up, automatic shifting seemed okay up to D5. I live in a closed neighborhood, so I couldn't get to D6 or D7 without getting the stink-eye from local residents. Maybe it took a few extra RPMs to get there, but it worked.
Manual shifting using the paddles now shows M4, M5, etc. on the dash display. This was not the case yesterday. Pulling back the right paddle brought it back to the normal auto-shifting display.
The main battery on an ML250 is in the engine compartment near the firewall, not under the passenger seat. I haven't looked at it, yet.
My local Autozone seems to offer a free OBD2 check. I'll be going there shortly.
@chassis Is my local shop likely qualified to do a transmission fluid flush and fill? Again, a four-hour round trip to my nearest dealer.
I fired up the car and took it for a spin around the neighborhood. Interestingly, things are a bit different today... if it's batteries, maybe they had overnight to "rest".
After warming up, automatic shifting seemed okay up to D5. I live in a closed neighborhood, so I couldn't get to D6 or D7 without getting the stink-eye from local residents. Maybe it took a few extra RPMs to get there, but it worked.
Manual shifting using the paddles now shows M4, M5, etc. on the dash display. This was not the case yesterday. Pulling back the right paddle brought it back to the normal auto-shifting display.
The main battery on an ML250 is in the engine compartment near the firewall, not under the passenger seat. I haven't looked at it, yet.
My local Autozone seems to offer a free OBD2 check. I'll be going there shortly.
@chassis Is my local shop likely qualified to do a transmission fluid flush and fill? Again, a four-hour round trip to my nearest dealer.
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2013 ML550 US spec. Air+Offroad pkg
If using Indi shop, Id prob stick with a German specialty shop. These cars require a little more specific procedures than the normal US or Japan car. For instance, in my ML550 the tranny service requires all new bolts because they are 1 time use since they are designed to stretch when torqued, and the fill procedure involves filling from below up to a plastic insert dam, and warming up to a preset temp.
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2017 GLE350 4MATIC
Update:
I fired up the car and took it for a spin around the neighborhood. Interestingly, things are a bit different today... if it's batteries, maybe they had overnight to "rest".
After warming up, automatic shifting seemed okay up to D5. I live in a closed neighborhood, so I couldn't get to D6 or D7 without getting the stink-eye from local residents. Maybe it took a few extra RPMs to get there, but it worked.
Manual shifting using the paddles now shows M4, M5, etc. on the dash display. This was not the case yesterday. Pulling back the right paddle brought it back to the normal auto-shifting display.
The main battery on an ML250 is in the engine compartment near the firewall, not under the passenger seat. I haven't looked at it, yet.
My local Autozone seems to offer a free OBD2 check. I'll be going there shortly.
@chassis Is my local shop likely qualified to do a transmission fluid flush and fill? Again, a four-hour round trip to my nearest dealer.
I fired up the car and took it for a spin around the neighborhood. Interestingly, things are a bit different today... if it's batteries, maybe they had overnight to "rest".
After warming up, automatic shifting seemed okay up to D5. I live in a closed neighborhood, so I couldn't get to D6 or D7 without getting the stink-eye from local residents. Maybe it took a few extra RPMs to get there, but it worked.
Manual shifting using the paddles now shows M4, M5, etc. on the dash display. This was not the case yesterday. Pulling back the right paddle brought it back to the normal auto-shifting display.
The main battery on an ML250 is in the engine compartment near the firewall, not under the passenger seat. I haven't looked at it, yet.
My local Autozone seems to offer a free OBD2 check. I'll be going there shortly.
@chassis Is my local shop likely qualified to do a transmission fluid flush and fill? Again, a four-hour round trip to my nearest dealer.
I would use a German specialist shop as suggested above, or a dealer. Do not use Transmissions-R-Us.
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ML250 BlueTech
New information is in:
There is nothing more vexing than a car problem that comes and goes. As Susan and I drove the few miles to Autozone, the ML was behaving beautifully. No problems shifting, everything as expected.
We got a code at Autozone (more below). As we left the store and tested on the highway, everything was still fine. We did an about-face to go home, and I applied more than a little acceleration. As the car went into D5, there was an RPM surge, accompanied by what felt like a thump. [Edit: Exactly the same gear and symptoms as yesterday when the CEL came on!] Sort of like it missed, revved, then took off again. We knew immediately. From there, upshifting was unavailable except through the paddles, and even though I could manually upshift, the display was still D6, D7...
Stopped to pick up some groceries and I turned the car off. When we started back up, it was perfectly well-behaved, even when I laid on it a bit. Arggh.
At Autozone, the guy hooked up a ricky-tick meter, and we're reporting a P0171, The Mixture in Cylinder Bank 1 is Too Lean. We didn't see any other codes, and the test, I believe, did not look at any transmission issues.
Would this at all account for the symptoms? Or, are we still looking at the batteries?
The guy at AZ also mentioned the possibility of a solenoid issue. Does that track?
My next courses of action:
There is nothing more vexing than a car problem that comes and goes. As Susan and I drove the few miles to Autozone, the ML was behaving beautifully. No problems shifting, everything as expected.
We got a code at Autozone (more below). As we left the store and tested on the highway, everything was still fine. We did an about-face to go home, and I applied more than a little acceleration. As the car went into D5, there was an RPM surge, accompanied by what felt like a thump. [Edit: Exactly the same gear and symptoms as yesterday when the CEL came on!] Sort of like it missed, revved, then took off again. We knew immediately. From there, upshifting was unavailable except through the paddles, and even though I could manually upshift, the display was still D6, D7...
Stopped to pick up some groceries and I turned the car off. When we started back up, it was perfectly well-behaved, even when I laid on it a bit. Arggh.
At Autozone, the guy hooked up a ricky-tick meter, and we're reporting a P0171, The Mixture in Cylinder Bank 1 is Too Lean. We didn't see any other codes, and the test, I believe, did not look at any transmission issues.
Would this at all account for the symptoms? Or, are we still looking at the batteries?
The guy at AZ also mentioned the possibility of a solenoid issue. Does that track?
My next courses of action:
- Contact my local shop to have them do a deeper scan. At least I know I can get the car there, a few miles down the road.
- Have them replace both batteries while at it, and replace the 02 sensor if they concur. They've done this before, I believe. How long should an aux battery last?
- Schedule a transmission flush & fill at the dealership, which involves a 4-hour drive and an overnight stay and loaner if it takes a long time. We live in a fairly rural, "economically depressed" area, so finding Indie German shops is a no-go.
Last edited by RobH739; May 21, 2023 at 12:09 PM.
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From: unbegrenzt
2017 GLE350 4MATIC
Archetypal kaput battery symptom.
Your tranny oil needs changed.
Unrelated to anything you have so far reported, other than possibly a kaput main battery. Replace the main battery, tell the shop to "clear codes" and re-read codes.
Unknowable. 4 years is my benchmark. Yours is three years old, and given the kaput main battery as you have, it's good practice to bring both batteries to a known good condition.
Dealer has no part in this, you have an old complicated German luxury car that is entering (expensive) middle age. Your options are to do nothing, shovel cash into the vehicle, or sell it and get something else.
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ML250 BlueTech
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2013 ML550 US spec. Air+Offroad pkg
Just a quick Google, found this...but doesnt explain the shifting issue. Id normally start with new MAF (get Bosch), or clean it with MAF spray cleaner and go from there, but the oddball shifting is a different bird. Consider swapping battery (probably AGM) first to see if that fixes things (chassis recommendation). Shifting is electronically controlled, so low voltage can cause all sorts of issues on these sensitive cars. May need to be a dealer trip to diagnose and fix this one.
|Code P0171 Mercedes-Benz Possible Causes
- Intake air leaks
- Faulty Mass Air Flow (MAF) sensor
- Faulty front heated oxygen sensor
- Ignition misfiring
- Faulty fuel injectors
- Exhaust gas leaks
- Incorrect fuel pressure
- Lack of fuel
- Incorrect Positive Crankcase Ventilation (PCV) hose connection
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ML250 BlueTech
ChatGpT must be a shadetree mechanic. After formulating a good question, it came back with possible issues:
- A malfunctioning transmission solenoid. "The solenoid is responsible for controlling the flow of transmission fluid and engaging the appropriate gears. If a solenoid is faulty or not functioning properly, it could cause the symptoms you're experiencing."
- Dirty or low transmission fluid levels, "can lead to inadequate lubrication and improper shifting, which may result in the symptoms you described. It's worth checking the transmission fluid level and condition to ensure it is at the proper level and free of contaminants."
- Also: "Given that the issue temporarily resolves itself after shutting off the car for a while, it could indicate an overheating problem. Transmission overheating can cause erratic shifting behavior and lead to similar symptoms. If the transmission fluid gets too hot, it may not effectively lubricate the components, resulting in improper shifting."
When I asked if the main battery could be the issue, I got "It's unlikely that a problem with the main battery would directly cause the symptoms you described with the transmission. The main battery in a car is primarily responsible for providing power to start the engine and operate the electrical components of the vehicle.However, it's worth mentioning that electrical issues can sometimes have indirect effects on the vehicle's performance, including the transmission. If the main battery or the electrical system is not supplying sufficient power to the transmission control module or other related components, it could potentially lead to erratic behavior and malfunctions."
Welcome our new machine overlords.
I went through all of the old service records, and did find that the main battery was replaced in March 2019, making it now a bit over 4 years old. At least it's not original. (None of the above is an attempt to dispute your pointing to the battery as an issue, @chassis , I'm just reporting back what I found on a boring Sunday when I can't really drive anywhere.)
The transmission fluid, though... that's another matter. I couldn't find any record of replacing that. Perhaps my local shop can do a quick check of level and condition, although I'd take it back to the dealer for the work.
- A malfunctioning transmission solenoid. "The solenoid is responsible for controlling the flow of transmission fluid and engaging the appropriate gears. If a solenoid is faulty or not functioning properly, it could cause the symptoms you're experiencing."
- Dirty or low transmission fluid levels, "can lead to inadequate lubrication and improper shifting, which may result in the symptoms you described. It's worth checking the transmission fluid level and condition to ensure it is at the proper level and free of contaminants."
- Also: "Given that the issue temporarily resolves itself after shutting off the car for a while, it could indicate an overheating problem. Transmission overheating can cause erratic shifting behavior and lead to similar symptoms. If the transmission fluid gets too hot, it may not effectively lubricate the components, resulting in improper shifting."
When I asked if the main battery could be the issue, I got "It's unlikely that a problem with the main battery would directly cause the symptoms you described with the transmission. The main battery in a car is primarily responsible for providing power to start the engine and operate the electrical components of the vehicle.However, it's worth mentioning that electrical issues can sometimes have indirect effects on the vehicle's performance, including the transmission. If the main battery or the electrical system is not supplying sufficient power to the transmission control module or other related components, it could potentially lead to erratic behavior and malfunctions."
Welcome our new machine overlords.
I went through all of the old service records, and did find that the main battery was replaced in March 2019, making it now a bit over 4 years old. At least it's not original. (None of the above is an attempt to dispute your pointing to the battery as an issue, @chassis , I'm just reporting back what I found on a boring Sunday when I can't really drive anywhere.)
The transmission fluid, though... that's another matter. I couldn't find any record of replacing that. Perhaps my local shop can do a quick check of level and condition, although I'd take it back to the dealer for the work.
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ML250 BlueTech
Contact both the dealer and local shop tomorrow morning. Hopefully, local can test the battery and check the transmission fluid. I think that would be the appropriate first steps, yes?
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2017 GLE350 4MATIC
Checking 10 year old transmission fluid in a transmission that is woefully dependant on fluid changes will tell you: the fluid needs to be changed. Any other answer should be ignored.
This has been a solid vehicle for you, and it appears it needs some care and feeding. You have a good idea to hold onto it. To do so requires a steady and increasing stream of cash for maintenance and repairs.
This has been a solid vehicle for you, and it appears it needs some care and feeding. You have a good idea to hold onto it. To do so requires a steady and increasing stream of cash for maintenance and repairs.
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ML250 BlueTech
Checking 10 year old transmission fluid in a transmission that is woefully dependant on fluid changes will tell you: the fluid needs to be changed. Any other answer should be ignored.
This has been a solid vehicle for you, and it appears it needs some care and feeding. You have a good idea to hold onto it. To do so requires a steady and increasing stream of cash for maintenance and repairs.
This has been a solid vehicle for you, and it appears it needs some care and feeding. You have a good idea to hold onto it. To do so requires a steady and increasing stream of cash for maintenance and repairs.
And if it's a battery issue, local can do that.
I don't mind the expense to maintain a vehicle that we love, and is the best vehicle we've ever owned. I do miss it being under warranty, though.
We have had DPF issues, and coolant leak issues. Many of these have caught us on the road in faraway places. But mostly, they've been under warranty. Now it's out of pocket.
Leaving us to wonder: What's next? What is a similar sort of vehicle that has low ambient noise, good mileage, solid mechanical performance, with a dealer not so far away. Hmmmm.... Whatever we do, we need to update our alternate ride. We have a 2003 Toyota Tundra that has 155K miles and failing paint. It's not a looker, but it's solid... as long as I disconnect the battery when not in use, but I digress.
