qianlimoro

Honda blames global crisis for F1 withdrawal

"Honda have confirmed they are pulling out of Formula One, unless a buyer for the team can be found by the end of the month, blaming the global financial crisis for their decision."

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/SPORT/12...nda/index.html

"Despite a huge operational budget of $300 million, Honda have under-achieved in the sport, finishing ninth out of 10 in the constructors' standings with Barrichello 14th and Button 18th out of the 20 drivers."


Probably would be different if they were winning....

e1000

yeah. If they were winning they'd have sponsors and get more money from F1 as well.

Makes me sad. They've been pretty bad, with only one decent season since their return but I always liked Honda.

tee_tz

They've now come out and said they've found 3 potential buyers (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/spo...cle5291816.ece). They may still be on the grid in Australia in March 2008.

Honda has done everything possible to an F1 car, except put the rear wheels in the front and the front in the rears. They're on track to be competing against the likes of Renault or BMW in the coming seasons. Toyota has made great progress, which means Honda is not too far behind.

Lastly, the FIA needs to figure out how to lower costs for teams to operate. Shelling out £200 million per year to run a team is a lot of money to justify in this economic climate. Standard engines is a complete no, but I reckon there needs to be some cost-cutting measures. And also, increase awareness and marketing in North America. Walking away from the US is not the answer, China is a growing market, as is India & the Middle East, but still, as far as consumers are concerned, the US Dollar is what you need.


Tee_Tz.

splinter

It is unfortunate, but not altogether unexpected given the world’s current automobile manufacturing economic climate. The team’s “Earth Car” sponsorship meant that they were footing the entire investment from their own corporate coffers. Even Honda’s volume and its profit have inexorably slipped.

What was surprising is that they didn’t fare better during their most recent foray into F1. Honda’s vast bankroll and technical expertise formerly permitted them to dominate every form of motorsport in which they chose to compete. Recall that back in 1965 they were the first Asian marque to win in F1, much to the astonishment of European-dominated teams – just five years after selling their first road cars.

In the 80’s and early 90’s, they built and supplied engines to a variety of teams, winning 70+ Grands Prix and the constructors championship for those teams several times. They certainly know engineering; its reality this time ‘round meant backmarker performances. Honda’s ill-fated decision to take over the BAR team (when Ferrari was dominating) proved that the business had become even that much tougher during their absence, although Jensen Button earned them a pole and lone victory. Alas, they never regained their former glory.

The great Ayrton Senna (R.I.P.) winning with Honda power:

tee_tz

Yes I think nobody doubts their engineering abilities. However, the sport has become much more competitive in recent years, with top teams throwing large sums of money, notably BMW, to produce a brilliant car.

It's also worth noting that some of the advancements, i.e. with the Mercedes-McLaren tie up, end up in road vehicles, like the SLR or select Mercedes AMG vehicles. Honda has no road cars that can benefit from F1 Technology to be written off as R&D so it becomes a little more cost conscious.

But anybody who want in for 2010 should look at Honda as a gateway. They also avoid that $25m entry/application fee as well and get a great set of resources. Porsche & Lamborghini-Lotus were among those considering a return to F1 sometime last year, but I doubt they'll be interested. But hey, Porsche-VW was once the world's largest company, so who knows


Tee_Tz.

MB-BOB

In a way, this was inevitable... Honda could have continued making great F1 engines for teams for years, but they jumped on the bandwagon to build the whole car with the BAR acquisition... a much tougher nut to crack, with much higher exposure to the whims of the worldwide economy.

Said another way, their decision to play "me too" with the likes of Ferrari, BMW, and Toyota (especially), could be justified in good times, but made them vulnerable to financial woes when the economy (invariably) cycles from good to bad.

I wonder if we've seen the end to this downsizing in F1. Frankly I don't think so. BMW announced just last week that their sales are down 25%.

Moving this to the Motorsports forum...

BMWEATR

toro rosso will be next.

FThornton666

How do you figure? Torro Rosso out preformed red bull this year. If anyone is next its Force India.

hakaida442

honda should've gotten major sponsors plastered all over the car instead of going with the earthdreams crap for the past two years. the revenue probably could've kept them going for at least another year.

BMWEATR

red bull bought gerhard bergers 50% stake and kicked him off the team. They might not fold but they will be sold.

Nola

Another sign the end of the racing world is nigh.

kchristos

They outperformed RedBull because the Renault engines were lacking power from the Ferrari and Mercedes ones. Apparently, McLaren and Ferrari took advantage of the loopholes left in the engine freeze rules and added some power. At the end of the year though rumors say that Renault and Toyota complained about that and the FIA quietly figured out something to let them equalize their performance as well so they don't go public about it. That's why we saw the improvement we did at the last races from Renault and Toyota.

kchristos

Wow! This guy is saying that another "manufacturer" is going to pull out before the beginning of the season. Hmm, I wonder who is he referring to, the only ones left are Ferrari, McLaren, Renault, BMW and Toyota. The first three is impossible if you ask me, they have very strict goals for next year. Hmm, is it possible that Toyota might consider pulling the plug? They did a fantastic progress this year, they seem to be in a good path, it would be very sad to see them leaving as well.

http://eurosport.yahoo.com/08122008/...ceo-teams.html

Nola

I would say Renault will go first. Commitment my **** when your company is on the line.

kchristos

You are right, they were probably referring to Renault as the next one to go, that would be a disaster for the sport because they have the potential to be one of the championship contenders if they exhibit the performance they did at the end of the season.

Alonso doubts Renault to follow Honda exit

http://eurosport.yahoo.com/11122008/...onda-exit.html

Nola

I suppose he has more insight than me so there you go...

jrcart

You heard it here first....F1 as we know it today will be finished in 5-6 years, if not sooner. Bernie is going to continue run things into the ground. I doubt you will see full grids at any races next year, fans will start to migrate to other forms of motorsports where they can see more than 8-9 cars on a race track of which maybe 4 of them are serious contenders. The global economy might be somehwhat to blame but Bernie will be the last nail in the coffin.

Nola

AQnd now Subaru and Suzuki have pulled out of WRC. Tough times indeed.

jrcart

Wow, that is a suprise, I have not heard that. WRC has always been Subaru's thing....what a shame.

jherbias

I would not mind the death of F1... the "show" has been a joke for probably more than a decade. Say what you want about JPM, but when he went to NASCAR he said F1 was the same parade every two weeks.

As for Honda, it was an opportune time for them to leave. Ever since they kicked out David Richards the team has gone downhill. They won w/o him in Hungary 06 but they probably could have been a constant podium finisher had he still been running the show. I didn't mind the Earth Dreams message but running no sponsors doesn't help, as stated before.

I would be more worried about the privateers... they only live to build F1 machines and now companies are going to heavily consider their sponsorship involvement. For example, Williams has lost Petrobras and Lenovo recently.

Also stated before; Bernie ruining the show. With ridiculous hosting fees, team membership bonds, and cutting classic tracks like San Marino and Canada, replacing them with retarded tracks like Bahrain and Shanghai.

Thank goodness we have the ALMS and Le Mans... but now Audi isn't going to participate in the former, except for pretty much a 12-hour test run at Sebring.

jrcart

You will never hear a bad word out of my mouth about JPM, he's the man. I still remember his first CART race, I knew he was going to be a superstar by watching his first lap. F1 is so very boring, I had been down to Indy 3 times to watch the F1 race, it's only a 3.5 hour drive for me so it was easy. I like the cars, so fast, but the racing sucked, no passing, no excitement. I attend 4-5 Nascar Cup races a year, the weekend are fun, you have acccess to the drivers and it is good close racing, most weekends there are 20 drivers that have a serious shot at a win.

splinter

+1

Witnessed him win the ’99 LBGP on his first attempt…going away, in addition to earning the CART championship in his rookie year.

When he was participating in the mandatory ROP at Indianapolis, credible reports were that he was flat all ‘round on his second lap. The man has God-given talent which he’s obviously put to good use. His skills are unfortunately mitigated in the tin tops, but there are no open wheel vacancies currently available that are willing match his rather substantial retainer.

jherbias

Well, he chose to go to NASCAR, so he isn't missing open-wheel racing at all. I think his wife Connie being pregnant in Florida had something to do w/ his switch from F1 as well.

I really liked him as a driver who really wasn't afraid to speak his mind, and he was an above-average driver. Not Schumi, Raikkonen, or Alonso-quality, but probably better than a lot of the other drivers. He was notorious for setting extremely fast laps on cold tires, as mentioned by Hobbs on Speed quite frequently.

But back on topic... racing is very unprofitable sport unless you are Ferrari or McLaren... maybe in a few years motorsport will disappear entirely regardless of the economic situation. There is more emphasis on cleaner and fuel-efficient engines, and the motorsport-to-production technology is not widely apparent.

kchristos

Just what did you expect him to say, badmouth the sport and the sponsors that are currently paying his salary? He is obviously very talented to go as far as he did, he is very aggressive but he has a really bad temper and mouth.

Regarding passes, F1 has as many as most of the other road-coarse races. TV's coverage concentrates most of the time to cover the front drivers and don't cover much of the rest of the field, that's why many times it seems like there is no passing. ALMS, Rolex series etc don't have more passes than F1 either but they are both exciting. WRC, doesn't have passes but it is very exciting too. As for NASCAR, it is totally different sport, it is like watching European football (soccer) and comparing to the American Football. Amfootball would seem too slow and too little action for the soccer fun and soccer would seem that it doesn't have much strategy for the Amfootball fan.

Same thing, for the hardcore F1 fan, NASCAR looks like a bunch of crashes and meaningless passes. Cars cruising in the same gear, shuffle back and forth so often because it is by far easier to pass in the ovals in NASCAR, it is almost impossible to calculate an race strategy because of the number of passes so at the end it becomes a game of luck that's why some 20 cars have the chance of winning!

jrcart

Not sure I can agree with this comment, I think JPM is a better driver than Raikkonen and Shumacher and near equal to Alonso. You have to remember equipment has EVERYTHING to do with a drivers succes in F1 and Montoya was never on the best equipment in F1. Do you really think Schamacher would have all those wins if he was driving for Williams all those years? How many times did Micheal take a win because of team orders? Think about it? I remember many a races in which Micheal was gettting beat by his team mate, sometimes on experimental or inferiror equipment and they just pulled over or purposely botched a late race pit stop to give Micheal the win. Anyone that says Micheal was the best is nuts...Micheal had the best team, the best equipment and the most $$$. IMO Alonso was the class of the field back when the four above mentioned drivers were competing together, he managed some wins and great finishes with equipment and a budget that was greatly inferior to Ferrari, remember when Alonso came to Renault they were not nearly the team they are today, Alonso did by driving his heart out.