AMGfan

My dad accidentally hit a half empty 12 oz can of soda onto the center console. The car is stuck in limp mode and we took it to MB of Tampa. The damage is the following (per their breakdown):

2001 E320 (out of warranty)

Body Harness $1150
ETC Control Unit $596.70
Fluid $11.21
Connectors $8.00
Lock $.78
Misc. $200

LABOR: 45hrs = $5000

Total w. Tax plus Shop Fees = $7967.59

What to do? I'm thinking of calling AAA and getting the car out of there and taking it to an independent repair shop. I know of one in Tampa I have used, but that has been almost 3 years ago.

Question 1: What do you guys think of taking it to an independent repair shop?
Question 2: What do you guys think of pulling the body harness from a salvage yard (they have several here)?
Question 3: Anyone in Tampa on the board that has experience with a shop?

Thanks.

viguera

If it was me, I wouldn't pay anybody for $5k worth of labor... well, maybe if it was under warranty.

But that's a ton of money on labor... 60% of the total cost of repairs. That's an insane amount to spend on a 2001 (what is that, 1/3 the book value of the car?)

I'm not saying the parts are fishy... chances are something got messed up and they have to replace it -- I know there have been a couple of people that spilled stuff down the shifter assembly and had to get a bunch of things replaced -- but for all that labor I'd rent a car for as long as it takes me to fix the damn thing myself...

But it's your car... good luck with it.

AMGfan

I'm not taking it back to MB...It's my dad's car and he can afford it, but I don't think the labor charge is reasonable.

viguera

Well it's not an issue of whether he can afford it or not... if the car is stuck in limp mode, then it's gotta get fixed. It's an issue of whether or not it's worth spending $5k in labor, which I agree with you is unreasonable (actually, I think the word I'd use is "BS" )

Maybe there's another dealership that you can take it to and have them give you an estimate? For something that big, I don't know if I'd trust anything but an MB-specific shop.

And as far as prices, you can probably get the part numbers and then see if you can find them online or something. But if you don't care about parts and only the labor cost, then you can just buy the part from the dealership and take the car elsewhere. It's not like they won't sell it to you because you don't want the work done there...

MB-Dude

I agree with viguera - get a second opinion; even from another dealer. I live in San Jose, California and have direct experience that the Mercedes dealer near me does not know how to troubleshoot correctly. They simply "shotgun" the problem and replace a bunch of parts, hoping one of 'em will be the fix.

Definitely try a different dealer... get your second Mercedes-dealer opinion... then go to a good, reputable independent repair guy. You know the one - he's the guy with a medium-sized shop that only handles Mercedes (Ok, maybe BMW's as well), talks Mercedes, has Mercedes crap all over the place, etc. You get the idea. Talk to 'em. If you feel good about the conversation and sense that the independent knows his stuff, give him the car and let him fix it.

Regardless, good luck!

mleskovar

typical MB service estimates include everything remotely associated to the problem. Body harness??? Did smoke come out of the center console? ETC? Did they actually diagnose this problem or just look at everything that got coke on it? Misc $200!!! MISC!! This whole mess sounds like a shotgun guess at best. How about cleaning out the parts with soap (sugar) and water, blow drying it, and then test. Even the ECT should be cleaned before just replacing it. The labor cost is obviously because of the harness replacement. Definitely take it to at least another dealer if not an independent. Even pouring water down the same place and then taking an air hose to it is worth a try.....what can you lose? Fluid for what? Of course I haven't looked at it and they could be totally correct....but I'm willing to bet they don't have a clue and are guessing, and poorly at that.

AMGfan

I just dropped off the E320 to the a German specialty shop (MB/BMW/Porsche/VW) and the shop owner left me with a more comfortable feeling than at the MB dealership. He was a MB tech at that same dealership previously for 8 years and has had his own shop for the past 12 years.

He told me that he would do his best to repair any damage as opposed to MB's philosophy of replace only with no attempts at actual repair. He stated that he would only replace a part that was truly destroyed and that if the harness could be salvaged by cleaning/resoldering/etc... he would do so. However, he does not think that the harness is the problem and the MB tech's were taking the easy way out by replacing everything, rather than pinpointing the trouble areas.

We will see...I'll keep you posted on his findings. Thanks again for your input.

AMGfan

ETC Control Unit $596.70
Spacer $8.00
Lock $.78
ATF (tranny fluid) $12.00

MB of Tampa recoding $185

Labor $225.00

Total w/ tax $1114.40

He stated that the short was not from the spilled soda. He stated that when he took out the ETC unit that it was full of TRANSMISSION fluid. Apparently, there was a leak from the transmission plug (I'm not very technical so I apologize) underneath, which flowed THROUGH the harness wires and ended up in the ETC unit.

He stated that he replaced the ETC unit, removed as much of the tranny fluid from the harness, and replaced the leaky transmission plug. He estimates that this was a problem that has been brewing for at least 2-3 YEARS and that is just bad engineering on MB's part.

He stated the reason they wanted to charge 8K was they were going to replace the wiring harness completely (mucho labor - still unreasonable).

So...MB was going to make us think it was the soda in the transmission boot area which caused the short. Thanks a lot MB.

MB-Dude

CONGRATS, AMGfan!!!

I've heard of various liquids migrating up harness lines, but never spoke/read of an actual event. The cause does seem to fit the fix. My only experience was a "close call" where a '94 SL500 acted in a similar fashion, but not as severe as "limp mode". MB immediately jumped to the cable harness as a possible cause, but only after I pressed did they find it was simply a transmission sensor. Regardless, glad you found a good, reputable 3rd Party expert.

Lesson learned -- Just because they're the dealer, doesn't make them right.

AMGfan

It goes to show you that dealerships are all the same...no matter if they are high end or not. They replace, not fix...they all try to get out of warranty fixes if they can AND care less once the car is out of warranty. You can bend over then...

viguera

Yeah, goes to show you... at least you had enough sense to come ask about it. Chances are some other poor sucker(s) are not so lucky and pay out the anus for this kind of stuff.

Dealerships will rip anybody off with labor costs... at $90-100 an hour, it's the easiest money they can make. They have to pay for the parts, but the labor is almost all profit. There's a big difference from $225 to $5k worth of labor...

TresX

I don't know about you, but I would definitely let someone know about this. They were going to charge you $8K for a damaged ETC? This has to be illegal some way. They quoted you for changing the ETC, yet they probably didn't even take a look at it. If they did, they would have seen the ATF on it. I know you hear of shady mechanics doing things like this (charging for and changing parts that are not necessary) but this is an MB Dealership. I would call MBUSA and file a formal complaint. (mention something along the lines of, "if they do this to customers out of warrenty, imagine how much in unnecessary parts are charged under warrenty. I don't know how you can just let it slide? I would be irate!

K&C124

That dealership should lose their franchise. This kind of practice not only puts a bad mark on the cars for potential future buyers, but also costs current owners loss from unfounded depreciation due deceptive trade practices.
I would be all up in the dealerships face, I would even stand in the show room and tell prospective customers of what happened as well as putting an add in the local free paper about it. Kick them in their wallets and see how they act.

lkchris

Well, there's the mechanic's and the service advisor's salaries. Surely you don't think they're minimum wage.

I love "economists!"

csumt76

IMO, the labor does seem kinda high but then again it depends on who is working on the car. The tech has to fix the car but on top of that, make the best reccomendation for the situation. If soda, etc. did in fact find its way into the harness then technically it should be replaced. Patching up the existing harness is not how it should be done "properly" in the dealer. You have to CYA, or else all hell can break loose and everyone at the dealer will go down the ladder pointing the finger of blame on the guy who worked on the car and didn't "replace the wiring." Hope that puts it into perspective a little. Imagine a doctor performing a cheaper more cost effective operation hoping it will work and then getting sued for complications related to it later on down the road.

Plus the guys are doing this for a living. If it was that easy and required no knowledge/skill to repair the highest tech. cars on the road today, everyone would DIY.

TresX

WIS specifically has a writeup of repairing damaged wiring harnesses due to the high cost of replacing them.

mleskovar

...the customer should be given the options and chances for success. They even do that with heart surgery.

Air Marshall Eldritch

This is an amazing story.

I recently hopped in a taxi (E200 diesel) just as the driver spilled half his coffee into the console. He spent about 10 minutes dismantling it and wiping down the parts, put it all back together and off we went. All the electronics were fine.

rrpnow

damn...w-t-f... did you go to MB of Tampa? Or Lokey? I personally love the service I recieve with Lokey... try them out if you havent already fixed it... (i only read the original post)

AMGfan

MB of Tampa...but they are pretty much the same if you are comparing the service shops (not their customer service). Repair is a misnomer in dealerships. That's the reality we deal with, because their smile and free cup of coffee won't offset the "repair" bill once they give us a estimate on a off-warranty or non-warranty problem.

Example:

My dad also has a Cadillac Deville. He drove over some debri on I75 (pretty hard impact underneath the car) and we got home and saw that a wire was hanging down and a piece of plastic was loose.

We take the car to the Cadillac dealership for them to check it out. They call me the next day to tell me to call my insurance agent to setup a claim because it was going to be big dollars for the "repair." They said the was undercarriage damage (bent?), the O2 sensor, and a heat shield needed replacement. I asked them for the estimate AND THEY TOLD ME THEY DIDN'T HAVE ONE AND TO JUST HAVE THE ADJUSTER COME OUT.

AMGfan

MB of Tampa...but they are pretty much the same if you are comparing the service shops (not their customer service). Repair is a misnomer in dealerships. That's the reality we deal with, because their smile and free cup of coffee won't offset the "repair" bill once they give us a estimate on a off-warranty or non-warranty problem.

Example:

My dad also has a Cadillac Deville. He drove over some debri on I75 (pretty hard impact underneath the car) and we got home and saw that a wire was hanging down and a piece of plastic was loose.

We take the car to the Cadillac dealership for them to check it out. They call me the next day to tell me to call my insurance agent to setup a claim because it was going to be big dollars for the "repair." They said the undercarriage, the O2 sensor, and a heat shield needed replacement. I asked them for the estimate AND THEY TOLD ME THEY DIDN'T HAVE ONE AND TO JUST HAVE THE ADJUSTER COME OUT.

A bell rang in my head because they said they spent an hour and half looking at the damage. No estimate? We said we would take the car to another shop for them to get an estimate (under the guise that it was a shop that our insurance approved of and had a 100% guarantee on their work). They were going to charge us $119 for their "no-estimate" work. I found this out at the time of pick-up, not during any of my conversations with the service rep. I *****ed to the service manager and threatened never to buy another car from them. They came back and tore up the bill, stating that the service rep should have told me before I got there that they were charging me.

We took it to the shop that fixed the E320.

They put the car up and looked at the under carriage:

1. Undercarriage had a slight dent, but did not require replacement.
2. The heat shield was loose and bent. They straightened it out and re-attached it with new screws.
3. The O2 wire was hanging down and almost torn off. They spliced the wire and re-attached it to the undercarriage.

TOTAL BILL: $45 (equals one hour of work)

The Cadillac shop wanted us to file a claim, pay a $500 deductible, and see our rates go up...for a job that cost $45.