vettdvr

Does anyone know that the toe it or camber specs are for the E500 2003.

I have checked mine and found +1/4 degree camber and 1/16 toe in and would like to know how this is vs. spec. Thanks Jim

bnzct

How did you get the measurements? Did you bring it to a shop?
(Sorry, I don't know the spec)

vettdvr

I just used the old machinist method. Mark a specific reference on each tire that is symetrical. Then use a straight edge and determine the slope of the floor where the car is sitting. After that use an Inclinometer accurate to 1/4 degree. Make a straight edge that will go from outside edge of the rim across the diameter. Then you can measure the camber in degrees. If the floor has a 1/4+ slope you just add or subtract given the direction of slope. The toe is relatively easy. Just use a tape measure and measure between 2 exact symmetrical points on the tire. Given you can't get exactly 180 degrees apart you want to be as far in degrees as possible. There will be some slight error, but given the tape measure cost less than $10.00 compared to a $20,000 alignment machine the error is not bad. So you really can measure the camber and toe in and be relatively accurate. What you can't measure is the caster or what use to be called king pin inclination.

So my measurements are relatively accurate. Now who do you use for alignemnt. The mercedes tells me my tire wear problem is the brand of tire Dayton ZR 245x45x17 speed rated for the MB. The tire dealer tells me the car is out of alignment and it is not the tire as a problem. So today I bought new tires. Cooper racing tires that I use on my Corvette that have performed exceptionally well on the track and normal driving use. So I need to break the dead lock on the MB. If I don't get better service or NUMBERS from the MB dealer on the front end set up, I might be driving a different brand next year. This was my first MB an I do have a little experience with machinery. Have a nice day folks. Jim

PS remember airplanes use to fly when they were designed with side rules and built with dial indicators,, not lazers and computers.

Moviela

I still use my slide rule! It props up my HP-10C to just the right angle.

MBTech21

The actual spec for that car (and most newer MBs), are a variable based on the ride height of the vehicle. Kind of a sliding scale.
What kind of tire wear are you getting? One problem that seems to be prevelant now, dealership and elsewhere, is that new techs are taught that green is good and red is bad. If the machine says the car is in spec (all green)- then the alignment is right.
That , of course is not the case, cars can be tweaked, and should be, to eliminate tire wear and steering issues. Thats where the brain has to come into play!! I remember back with the 124s, when all of a sudden, MB decided that you could have up to a degree of caster difference to combat a pull- something that some of us had been doing for years already....

vettdvr

You are exactly CORRECT. Within spec doesn't mean ON TARGET. Most specs are EX.. 2 degrees +/- 1/2 degree. But that results in very large variation and as a result the dealer will state,," within spec " but not necessarily on target.

My tires are wearing on the inside edge and cupping out. I replaced them at 17,000 miles and now on a new set. I would like to have the alignment set "on Target" to correct this tire wear. I know this can be done, but there is only 1 MB dealer within 100 miles and they continue to state "within spec".

I also understand how ride height affects camber and can effect caster. But given my measurements were the car stationary at rest with no change to ride height I should be close in the measurements. I would expect too much toe in or too much negative camber to cause my tire wear. Currently I am searching for a dealer/or tire center than can align this car. If the dealer can't solve this perhaps someone else can. Hopefully this is a rare case for maintenance support. There are many other cars on the world market that will wear tires evenly and give the same performance.


I would expect to wear out the rear tires before the front. Have a nice day.. Jim

vettdvr

Glad you found a use for your slide rule,, I could use mine to shim the front end to reduce tire wear. But given no calculator, I do know how to use mine as it was designed. Ok,, now we are have a nice day and hope your HP-10C doesn't fall on the Vic 20 .

MBTech21

Almost all of these cars are running 0 and to the negative side on the camber, so I wouldn't touch that- personally, I set most E - class cars to 10 minutes of toe at the most- so converting to inches, that would be around a 1/32 or less ( I think- been a long time since I did alignments in inches).
Also, MB uses a presser bar when setting toe- the natural inclination with the high caster is that the wheels sag in a rest- so they actually force the wheels out when setting toe with this bar- I have found on the rack and pinion models, you are better setting them static- seems to get rid of a lot of these tire issues.
Seeing as there is only one adjustment with the camber (+ or - )- done with a bolt- you could install bolts on both sides to get you more +, but with the cupping, I'm reading toe issue...

vettdvr

Thanks for the information. I have copied your post. Today I found a Mercedes (not a dealer) service center that has a tire dealer that does alignments on MB's. They told me their equipment was less than 7 months old and they have been doing alignments for 30 yrs. I spoke to them and they said "some MB's require special tools to do the camber and caster" If they can do mine they will otherwise they will take the readings and give me the information. Just wondering though can the toe in be set with "normal" tools vs the dealer only special tool. If we find only toe in off is it possible to just adjust the toe? I remember my 58 Ford was easy to adjust with vice grips. . But now I am dating myself. Thank MBTech 21 you very much for the information. Jim

MBTech21

The special tool is the Romess gauge that we use for checking ride height. The caster /camber is set by changing the control arm bolts with special bolts.
Other than a 21 mm wrench and a pair of vice grips, you need nothing else to do all the adjustments on the front of this car. (Actually the rear toe, too, in a pinch!)

vettdvr

MBTech21,, you are right on the mark. I found a Tire dealer who was willing to work with me on the alignment. They told me "you need new bolts from Mercedes" to set the front end. The camber is -1.6 L -1.2 R Toe is on based upon his numbers. (don't remember the exact #) It would seem that
-1.6 and -1.2 is a bit much on camber. The shop told me they would order the bolts from MB and call when it is in.

If I understand correctly you reco. 10 Min for toe in? is this correct?

Thanks again for your help,, I think we are on the right track.

MBTech21

If you have no pulling, then put the bolts in both sides- should get it to around -1.2 and -.9, that is pretty close to the -1.0 that seems to be the best. 10 minutes of toe is perfect- set with NO presser bar installed.

vettdvr

I assume the 10 minutes of toe is total for both wheels and not 20 total. Thanks Jim

MBTech21

Yes, that is total.

vettdvr

I bought the bolts today.. pricy at $18 each. What should be the caster setting. Got the -1 camber 10" toe should I go with the alignment data for caster or is there a number. Thanks Jim.. taking it in tomorrow.

MBTech21

Actually, if you compare the $18 to the other 'alignment correction' kits out there for other cars- it's pretty cheap!! Check out a rear shim for a 88 Pontiac 600 or a caster offset bushing for a F150.........

I am away from work now, and caster really is of no issue- if you change both wheels by the same , and you had no pull before- the caster will change the same amount on each side, so you are pretty much where you started off with that. Near as I can remember, I'm thinking about 3-4% caster- but that could be way wrong.

I would look for not much difference in change from before to after, rather than worrry about that spec..

vettdvr

I really appreicate your help. Today we completed the alignment. Front Camber L & R is -1.0 Total Toe was set at .10. The rear camber was L -1.9 R -1.3 with toe being L .06 R .04.

If the Left rear camber is ok we should be good to go. The alignment bolts were installed and worked out very well. The tech who did the work went out of his way also to be helpful. Thank you once again. Jim

MBTech21

Not much you could do with the rear camber anyway, and they seem to be really negative usually. Hopes this helps your tire wear- sounds like it should.
Glad to offer some input.

highgross

I have -2 camber whant bolts should I get? I here there are two sets.

vettdvr

I bought 2 replacement bolts used for adjustment. I only needed 1 because only 1 side needed adjusting. I had the alignment shop install them. Only charged me $75/hr to install the bolt. So the bolt was about $35 and labor to install was $75 so $105 to install 1 bolt. But I took the other back to the dealer for refund since I only needed 1. So far,, the alignment looks good and tire wear looks normal as of now. Jim