A/T Secondary Pump
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Thanks.....I have a bad transmission in a 400E I just bought that won't shift out of 2nd and although the ATSG book is helpful it does show the pump with no explanation as to it being phased out. Too bad, 'cause that would have explained the problem...
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Well, I have pulled the overload switch because we got a DTC (does not close) and it looked OK althought one connector pin was broken. And the metal pin that reaches down into the transmission looks like it is homemade...very weird! Pulled out the modulator valve and it look like it has burnt on the bottom, in the plastic right across the O ring, which is why it leaked fluid. It is the pre-92 one, older style. Also, the heat expansion compensation pin looks broken. The pictures I got show it as a seperate part but it definitely looks broken. Also, pulled the filter off and the paper element seems to have started to come apart so there could be paper in the valve body. Removed the governor but it seems OK. Moves freely and the springs are there. I am about to remove the valve bodies.
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The over load protection switch does not control / command a shift, its only function is to momentarily retards engine timing on a hard,WOT shift, to soften drive train shock load in the transmission , the modulator controls shift feel, harsh or soft and regulates internal working pressure’s.
I would check for a stuck Kick down switch under the gas pedal, you should be able to push it by Hand, if you don’t hear a Click, it’s stuck ON = no up shift.
Also check the Bowden, throttle valve cable in the engine compartment, it must have some movement, not seized or stuck.
If the Bowden cable and kick down switch check out ok drive the car with the Bowden cable disconnected, if the car shifts, the cause is valve body related. Post pictures of the modulator pin, can you check for an up shift delay actuator, located on the passenger side front of the transmission.
I would check for a stuck Kick down switch under the gas pedal, you should be able to push it by Hand, if you don’t hear a Click, it’s stuck ON = no up shift.
Also check the Bowden, throttle valve cable in the engine compartment, it must have some movement, not seized or stuck.
If the Bowden cable and kick down switch check out ok drive the car with the Bowden cable disconnected, if the car shifts, the cause is valve body related. Post pictures of the modulator pin, can you check for an up shift delay actuator, located on the passenger side front of the transmission.
Last edited by C32AMG/02; Nov 3, 2007 at 08:54 PM.
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The transmission is out but the Bowden looks OK and did work prior to removal. The kickdown switch is OK. Attached are pics of the modulator, overload switch with home made part and the shift delay.
This transmission obviously was out before and looking at the valve body it looks like there is a ball/check value missing in position 14a as per the ATSG manual....pressure valve.
Brian
This transmission obviously was out before and looking at the valve body it looks like there is a ball/check value missing in position 14a as per the ATSG manual....pressure valve.
Brian
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From: Orange County,New York
That transmission must have been slipping badly; to generate that much heat to melt the Modulator or the car had an exhaust leak. The B1 selective apply pin looks like it was home made, and you will need a $130 protection switch. Did you open the transmission; I am willing to bet that’s going to be an expensive built, Bands, worn pump, and maybe drums. MB identifies 14A as 23
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Hi again...went to buy the salvage transmission to-day but the part number was 722.366. It is out of a W140. They said it cross references OK. What is the difference between the 722.354 and the 722.366? Can the .366 go into the 400E with a problem? Thanks
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From: Orange County,New York
1994 E420, Chassis 124.034 Engine 124.034, Trans 722.366
1993 400E, chassis 124.034 Engine 124.034, Trans 722.354
A 722.366 transmission should fit work in your car. Make sure you install the protection switch, and make sure its working, no codes, if not the ECU will default to a retarded timing setting, if it doesn’t see the switch
1993 400E, chassis 124.034 Engine 124.034, Trans 722.354
A 722.366 transmission should fit work in your car. Make sure you install the protection switch, and make sure its working, no codes, if not the ECU will default to a retarded timing setting, if it doesn’t see the switch
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So...I removed the front cover and pump and notice a plastic item on the bottom, loose, under the front brake band and I (we) have no idea what it is for...I have discovered it described in Alldata as a shim. (see item #25 on attached exploded view). Part number is 1402720084. Do you know where it goes and how to re-install it? Thanks
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That metal piece is used to control B3 steel plate rattle, stand the transmission on its tail, with the valve body side facing you,look into the case, you will see three lugs that are longer that the others on top, hold the shim with the L legs facing you, slide the metal shim over the lugs and lock them into place. Slide the steels over the shim.
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Yeah....I did! I removed the front pump and found the spot where it goes. It actually went in the bottom. I did see the three longer lugs on top but this part wouldn't fit there. It fit perfectly at the bottom and seems to do the same job, I hope. Took the other one (original one) apart and it had been badly overheated. The K1 or B1 clutch pack plates where blue. A couple of the clutch plate matter was crumbling off the backing. Pretty bad. Glad I got a used one, that appears to be in pretty good shape. I had a Kalibrator spring set that I used in another E320 so I replaced / updated some of the valve body springs, since it was already out. Anyway, thanks again.
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Yeah....I did! I removed the front pump and found the spot where it goes. It actually went in the bottom. I did see the three longer lugs on top but this part wouldn't fit there. It fit perfectly at the bottom and seems to do the same job, I hope. Took the other one (original one) apart and it had been badly overheated. The K1 or B1 clutch pack plates where blue. A couple of the clutch plate matter was crumbling off the backing. Pretty bad. Glad I got a used one, that appears to be in pretty good shape. I had a Kalibrator spring set that I used in another E320 so I replaced / updated some of the valve body springs, since it was already out. Anyway, thanks again.
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Steve we got it back in with no real drama and it seems OK except that the 3/4 shift is quite late. As I mention I did change some of the springs in the valve body when it was out but fear it now requires too much pressure for that shift. Problem is I'm not sure which valve assembly controls it so I can put the original spring back ( I changed a few). Can you tell me which one controls the 3/4 shift and the 2/3...although it seems OK but I might reverse that one as well. Thanks
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Accumulator K2 controls shift feel on a 3rd to 4th shift. Command valve 3-4, shift valve B2 and shift valve K2 commands a 3rd to 4th shift.
Accumulator K1 controls 2-3 shift feel. Shift Valve B1 and control valve B1 controls a 2 -3 shift, install the original springs and clean the 3- 4 and 2 -3 command valves. Which VB kit did you use.
Did you flush the converter and transmission fluid cooler in the radiator, you could have contaminated the valve body with Debris or Bowden cable out of ajustment.
Accumulator K1 controls 2-3 shift feel. Shift Valve B1 and control valve B1 controls a 2 -3 shift, install the original springs and clean the 3- 4 and 2 -3 command valves. Which VB kit did you use.
Did you flush the converter and transmission fluid cooler in the radiator, you could have contaminated the valve body with Debris or Bowden cable out of ajustment.
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Thanks Steve. The kit was from german auto trans in Miami. Guy by the name of Mario Aristides. He calls it "Kalibrator"
I put the original springs back in. The valve body looks clean but I didn't flush the converter.
This kit had some pretty strong springs in the K1 and B1 accumulator. I was supprised when I removed them.
I also notice that the Bowden cable does need to be adjusted.....those 2 pointed plastic bits need to match...right?
Also, part of this kit requires you to increase 3 holes in the seperator plate..which I did. One to give a firmer K1 (2 -3) shift, another for a firmer K2 (3-4) and the other one to reduce the delay engagement to drive, B2 ???.
Went up to .062
Anyway, now that I removed all the springs I hope these larger holes don't create a problem. The plate I drilled was from the 722.366 transmission. I still have the one from the 722.354 and it ias almost identical...just 2 extra holes.
Doesn't seem like much......should I put it in or stick with the one that came with the replacement transmission (.366)...even though I drilled it.
Lottsa fun....
I put the original springs back in. The valve body looks clean but I didn't flush the converter.
This kit had some pretty strong springs in the K1 and B1 accumulator. I was supprised when I removed them.
I also notice that the Bowden cable does need to be adjusted.....those 2 pointed plastic bits need to match...right?
Also, part of this kit requires you to increase 3 holes in the seperator plate..which I did. One to give a firmer K1 (2 -3) shift, another for a firmer K2 (3-4) and the other one to reduce the delay engagement to drive, B2 ???.
Went up to .062
Anyway, now that I removed all the springs I hope these larger holes don't create a problem. The plate I drilled was from the 722.366 transmission. I still have the one from the 722.354 and it ias almost identical...just 2 extra holes.
Doesn't seem like much......should I put it in or stick with the one that came with the replacement transmission (.366)...even though I drilled it.
Lottsa fun....
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Update...more of the same
Replaced the original springs and put the valve body back. 2-3 shift takes awhile, almost as if the cat. was cold, but even when it is hot. I can make it shift if I take my foot off the accelerator, so I thought it might be the modulator. Adjusted that right out with no change to the 2-3 shift point.
The 3-4 shift is also "unwilling". It will shift but not until the RPM gets up there. Downshift is now positive and instant, quite aggressive. That is city driving. On the hwy as I enter if I put my foot into it she goes up through all the gears, no problem. Just seems to be when I drive it normally it acts up. The 2-3 and 3-4 city shift should be smoother. Right now it hesitates to go into 4, but I can get it there if I play with the throttle and manifold pressure, I suppose....which made me think modulator valve. So, I am going to re-spring the valve body and see if we can fix the city shifting attributes. Any other ideas Steve?
The 3-4 shift is also "unwilling". It will shift but not until the RPM gets up there. Downshift is now positive and instant, quite aggressive. That is city driving. On the hwy as I enter if I put my foot into it she goes up through all the gears, no problem. Just seems to be when I drive it normally it acts up. The 2-3 and 3-4 city shift should be smoother. Right now it hesitates to go into 4, but I can get it there if I play with the throttle and manifold pressure, I suppose....which made me think modulator valve. So, I am going to re-spring the valve body and see if we can fix the city shifting attributes. Any other ideas Steve?
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Replaced the original springs and put the valve body back. 2-3 shift takes awhile, almost as if the cat. was cold, but even when it is hot. I can make it shift if I take my foot off the accelerator, so I thought it might be the modulator. Adjusted that right out with no change to the 2-3 shift point.
The 3-4 shift is also "unwilling". It will shift but not until the RPM gets up there. Downshift is now positive and instant, quite aggressive. That is city driving. On the hwy as I enter if I put my foot into it she goes up through all the gears, no problem. Just seems to be when I drive it normally it acts up. The 2-3 and 3-4 city shift should be smoother. Right now it hesitates to go into 4, but I can get it there if I play with the throttle and manifold pressure, I suppose....which made me think modulator valve. So, I am going to re-spring the valve body and see if we can fix the city shifting attributes. Any other ideas Steve?
The 3-4 shift is also "unwilling". It will shift but not until the RPM gets up there. Downshift is now positive and instant, quite aggressive. That is city driving. On the hwy as I enter if I put my foot into it she goes up through all the gears, no problem. Just seems to be when I drive it normally it acts up. The 2-3 and 3-4 city shift should be smoother. Right now it hesitates to go into 4, but I can get it there if I play with the throttle and manifold pressure, I suppose....which made me think modulator valve. So, I am going to re-spring the valve body and see if we can fix the city shifting attributes. Any other ideas Steve?
I would look at; throttle valve and plunger, governor pressure valve also called, governor idle control valve, a sticking governor valve.
Adjust the Bowden cable when the pan is removed; adjust until the cable lever just contacts the throttle plunger, then fine tune on a road test. If you have a stretched cable the adjustment marks would be wrong.
Use the original springs and plate, so you can eliminate the valve body as the cause. A leaking K1 or K2 drum or sealing rings can also cause late 3rd to 4th shifts. Internal, did you have trouble installing the drums.
I know Mario well; he had a shop in South Miami.
