fwolf2

hi, i need some advice. My brakes completely failed and the sbc pump is finished. I dropped the car off at the Mercedes benz dealership yesterday, the service advisor called me up today said sbc pump is still under warranty ($2500) but they also have to change the front brake lines which is going to cost $1830 before tax!!! He said the whole engine needs to be pulled out just to change the brake lines! My warranty just ended and dont feel like paying over $1830 just to change brake lines. Could this be done by any mechanic or do they really need to pull out the whole engine to change the brake lines? any advice? thanx

fwolf2

2003 w211 E320 sedan, 32,000miles, brakes not working

lkchris

I believe I'd get with the MBCA (http://www.mbca.org) and their consumer liaison and discuss this with MBUSA.

Due to known problems, the warranty on the SBC system has been extended to 10 years.

One would think that if this system fails and causes damage to other portions of the brake system, that would be covered as well.

Your dealer's approach is similar to timing chain broke (under warranty) and destroyed rest of engine and we will only cover the timing chain and you have to pay for the rest of the engine.

Your dealer's approach is senseless.

Also, why not post this problem at http://mbca.cartama.net/

redcoupe

You need to ask them why the brakes line needs to be replace and which ones. Most times only the pump goes bad and I've never heard of the brake lines going bad.

Gullwing

I would think the brake lines would be covered if taken out by the pump.
Very least ask for goodwill.

mleskovar

Why do they need to change the brake lines? Something's fishy here.

lkchris

Probably because there's a chance they're filled with pieces of the broken pump.

But, then, so would be the calipers.

Yes, it does sound like dealer malfeasance.

Ausmbtech

To change the brake lines (metal lines from the pump to each wheel) the engine would need to be removed. But I am also very confused as to why this needs to be done. If they believe that there is contaminants in the lines then the calipers would need overhaul and rear lines would also need to be changed.

My gut feeling is that if they have already changed the pump then they have damaged the fittings on the end of the brake lines and are now trying to get you to pay for their damage.

I would get an exact reason as to why the lines need to be changed and then go and see for yourself at the dealership.

mleskovar

My thoughts as well. Even contamination doesn't require replacement since they can be easily flushed.

fwolf2

I spoke to the service advisor today he said they arleady put a new sbc pump, just waiting for me to give them go ahead with brake lines. He said its just the front brake lines NOT the rear. I asked it the brake line were leaking pressure he said yes. Is their no way this is suppose to be covered by the dealer? i wouldnt mind paying $500 or so maybe even $1000 but this is going to be $2000 after tax for just the front brake lines. any other thoughts on what to do? Is it safe to go to the little european specialist shops?

mleskovar

Now this is really stinking. Brake lines just don't "leak" in a car as new as yours unless someone damaged the fittings, or the brake fluid was contaminated with a chemical that would corrode and affect the whole brake system (highly unlikely, never heard of it happening, but possible), or the lines were defective when new. Also, a pump is not 'installed' unless the brake lines are attached to it. If you don't feel comfortable confronting the dealer and demanding to see the "leaky lines" (or you're not sure what to look for) humbly approach the Region Representative and ask him to show and explain it to you. I bet the dealer will do the work for 'free' just to show you what a good guy he is.

Gullwing

Ask to see where the brake lines are "leaking". If it looks like "normal" wear ask for goodwill, if it looks like a hack job tell them to F***off

Ausmbtech

The only place they can just start "leaking" is at the brake line fittings at the SBC pump itself.

I'd go down there and have a good look at the top of the SBC pump where the brake lines are and see if you can see any that appear to be on an angle.......they'll be the ones that have been cross-threaded and probably what they are calling a leak.

If they are cross threaded then it's their bad luck. When the sbc pump is replaced it's the tech who has to make sure they install the lines correctly and without tension to ensure they don't cross-thread.

Looks like you're going to have a bit of a fight on your hands.

vettdvr

I had my SBC fail also on our E500 at 68,000 miles. The SBC pump was replaced, brake fluid changed and lines flushed. Fortunately my extended warranty covered it.

There is no way I can see a SBC pump causing the brake lines to fail. I would have to have it on the rack and show me the defect and explain in detail why the SBC failure would cause the lines to fail. I guess I have too many years in Engineering to understand the mechanism of failure in this case. Even if metal particles went through the lines so what,, they can be flushed. The worse that would happen is that small metal might make it to the caliper and cause a leak. Someone here IMO is trying to recap some of the $$ from the SBC labor and double up on the $$. This just doesn't sound right. This is one I would want a MB Tech rep in to observe. Others comment on good will repair, that's ok, but it doesn't explain why the lines failed. So what is the basic cause of the failure? Lines kinked and failing,, how did they get kinked. Contaminated,, flush them. Fittings bad weren't bad before the SBC failure. So this really sounds in my book.

fwolf2

Just got back from the Mercedes benz dealership (Pompano FL). I had a look at the car on the lift and the leak is visible from underneath behind the driver side tire, right before the brake line kinks into to body. It was actually gushing out!!! My car never leaked brake fluid but they blame it on the lower control arm rubbing on the brake line. And since my car is lowered with eibach coil springs and also had a little accident (2 years ago!!?) they said it wasn't done properly. Taking account I did the service B and also changed my rear brake rotors and pads at the same place 6months back (different service advisor), they didn’t notice anything. I ended up talking to the manager and agreed on a final price of $1430. Didn’t really have a choice since they said they would remove the sbc pump due to reasons of liability with them not replacing the brake line. Having no warranty is definitely expensive will sell car or trader it in very soon.

mleskovar

Bingo....makes sense now. I'm guessing the accident involved the front driver's side of the car? Maybe kinked the brake line and the constant hitting/flexing of the control arm finally opened up a crack in the line. You're lucky the failure didn't manifest itself when you were going 70 mph and needed to make a sudden stop....the backup brakes on the SBC system are worthless.

vettdvr

This makes more sense. I also agree that modifications with NON MB parts makes you responsible for the problem if there was rubbing. Accident of course could result in this damage but you might go back on the repair shop for "hidden damage" if it wasn't too long ago.

But for a base stock E class to have a brake line,, would be hard to believe without an intervention of some type. Doesn't sound like a car/MB problem and they are probably correct in pointing out the problem and billing for their service. Have a nice day.

AH1W-COBRA

Your 2003 E-320 is a great car,iv'e owned that exact car and it was ultra reliable and fuel efficient.Buying another Mercedes Benz just for the security of the factory warranty is not cost effective.you think your E class is scary i guaranty you,upgrade into any of the S class models and you will have a freaking heart attack at the maintanance costs.if you are going to upgrade,than join the club of Mercedes Benz loyalists,start looking for a way to make more money to support the habit.