What compares
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ML63
What compares
As far as other sports cars are concerned...or even sedans,,,,in terms of slalom and g force and braking...how far up the chain does the ML63 fit in...what is its equal in comparison to CARS not other SUV's...we know about the HP, but would an ML out handle a 540 sedan or a buick lacrosse or a Miata...what car has the handling capabilities of the AMG suv ?
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2012 C63 Black Series Coupe
As far as other sports cars are concerned...or even sedans,,,,in terms of slalom and g force and braking...how far up the chain does the ML63 fit in...what is its equal in comparison to CARS not other SUV's...we know about the HP, but would an ML out handle a 540 sedan or a buick lacrosse or a Miata...what car has the handling capabilities of the AMG suv ?
• 5,200 pound approximate curb weight
• High CG (center of gravity)
The Laws Of Physics are a bummer, no?
I am going from an E55 wagon to the ML63, and the first thing you notice is the height. Still works for me, as it's the best compromise for my needs. However, the ML will likely be left in the corners by even a basic 5-series, and the Miata will be long gone on twisty roads like Highway One.
In my experience, absolute handling among this class would go something like:
1.) Porsche Cayenne (the one I drove was a Turbo)
2.) BMW X5 (the new one, but rides rough with Sport package and run-flats)
3.) ML63 (very close to X5 Sport, but far more comfortable)
4.) Range Rover Sport
Since I've never had the opportunity to drive all 4 on the same track on the same day, this is just a seat-of-the-pants call -- I'm sure there are those who will disagree. I just didn't like the RR Sport, so I may just be dismissing it based on my overall impression of the car.
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From: NY
ML63
The handling of the ML63 is great for its' class, but is still severely compromised by two things:
• 5,200 pound approximate curb weight
• High CG (center of gravity)
The Laws Of Physics are a bummer, no?
I am going from an E55 wagon to the ML63, and the first thing you notice is the height. Still works for me, as it's the best compromise for my needs. However, the ML will likely be left in the corners by even a basic 5-series, and the Miata will be long gone on twisty roads like Highway One.
In my experience, absolute handling among this class would go something like:
1.) Porsche Cayenne (the one I drove was a Turbo)
2.) BMW X5 (the new one, but rides rough with Sport package and run-flats)
3.) ML63 (very close to X5 Sport, but far more comfortable)
4.) Range Rover Sport
Since I've never had the opportunity to drive all 4 on the same track on the same day, this is just a seat-of-the-pants call -- I'm sure there are those who will disagree. I just didn't like the RR Sport, so I may just be dismissing it based on my overall impression of the car.
• 5,200 pound approximate curb weight
• High CG (center of gravity)
The Laws Of Physics are a bummer, no?
I am going from an E55 wagon to the ML63, and the first thing you notice is the height. Still works for me, as it's the best compromise for my needs. However, the ML will likely be left in the corners by even a basic 5-series, and the Miata will be long gone on twisty roads like Highway One.
In my experience, absolute handling among this class would go something like:
1.) Porsche Cayenne (the one I drove was a Turbo)
2.) BMW X5 (the new one, but rides rough with Sport package and run-flats)
3.) ML63 (very close to X5 Sport, but far more comfortable)
4.) Range Rover Sport
Since I've never had the opportunity to drive all 4 on the same track on the same day, this is just a seat-of-the-pants call -- I'm sure there are those who will disagree. I just didn't like the RR Sport, so I may just be dismissing it based on my overall impression of the car.
I didnt ask for comps on suvs, but rather on cars..We need to get slalom times comps.
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Im pretty sure we can chase a 540 or 545 through the twisties, well be right on there ***, even though it has a high center of gravity, it feels more like a sedan than a truck anyways.
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2012 C63 Black Series Coupe
The reason I said, however, that most any sedan will be quicker is that I was only considering sedans in the same price range. It would be interesting, for example, to compare the performance numbers of a E63/ML63 comparo.
Sorry if that still doesn't directly address your question, but the Miata and Lacrosse are from a different universe so it's tough for me to compare. I'm guessing that the closest sedans -- handling wise -- would be the non-M/AMG versions of the 5-series and E-class. The reduced height & weight will give them better turn-in and transient response, but they should be close to the ML63 in overall handling.
As to the RR Sport; I have friends who love theirs (so to each his own, I guess). Though I don't like this car it is also in the High-Performance SUV category...
Last edited by brt3; Jan 5, 2007 at 04:40 PM.
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07 ML63 Silver Dead at 85k, 14 RS5, 05 SL600
E63 vs ML
Not so sure I want to compare the E63 (4.2 and 12.6 at 115) with the ML63 (4.7 and 13.3 at 105.6). The new E63 it tested in the Feb Car and Driver. It (according to C&D) absolutely blows the manual BMW M5 away in a comparison test. Acceleration is better and basically ties it in lane change and skid pad (.82g) Quote "best Mercedes sports sedan I've ever driven" said one of the testers. I don't think the ML63, as fantastic as I think it is, compares to the M5 or E63 in handling. IMO, in day to day driving, the performance is at least in the same league as the E. Regardles of numbers the ML63 sure is an absolute blast to drive. I think the E63 may be the next addition.
The skid pad numbers for the ML seem to be .82g as well. Similar to Cadillac STS-V, Lexus IS350, Pontiac Grand Prix Infiniti G35x, Saleen twin turbo (kidding) etc. (Numbers from Road and track)
Does anybody have the lowering module installled in an ML63 yet and if so what does it do for the handling?
I think you will find the ML handles very well or as well, compared to many sporty sedans, on your average road. The instant acceleration will enable you to keep up with most others, or leave them behind as the case may be. As mentioned by others, a little lower CG would be nice.
The skid pad numbers for the ML seem to be .82g as well. Similar to Cadillac STS-V, Lexus IS350, Pontiac Grand Prix Infiniti G35x, Saleen twin turbo (kidding) etc. (Numbers from Road and track)
Does anybody have the lowering module installled in an ML63 yet and if so what does it do for the handling?
I think you will find the ML handles very well or as well, compared to many sporty sedans, on your average road. The instant acceleration will enable you to keep up with most others, or leave them behind as the case may be. As mentioned by others, a little lower CG would be nice.
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AMG ML63, M3 CSL, Z4M Coupe, New Audi TT, Audi R8 (coming)
You will see from the thread below that I have lowered my ML63.
https://mbworld.org/forums/ml55-amg-ml63-amg-w163-w164/176789-adjustable-ride.html
It makes quite a big difference to the handling. I lowered it a litte further than in the pictures and the improvement was vast but it left too little room for the dampers/shocks to work and I found it bottoming when hitting an undulation in the road at high-speed (i.e. 90mph+). So I raised it back up 0.5" or so.
When you drive the ML63 really quickly it can feel like it's up on 'tippy-toes', lowering it by 1" reduces this feeling and lowering it a further 1" completely eliminates the feeling. When in such a lowered state I found that the ML63 could be cornered aggressively enough to get all four tyres sliding, when it sits higher this doesn't happen since the weight transfer ends up scrubbing the front tyres wide (i.e. push/understeer).
It's this weight transfer that more than anything limits the ML63's pace when compared to standard sports sedan. I haven't driven an E63, but I've driven plenty of M5s and the ML63 wouldn't even get close. I drive around (on the same roads) in my Z4M Coupe and as soon as they get twisty it's much quicker than the ML - but that's only to be expected.
The ML handles well enough to use its 500+hp, but isn't the best handling SUV in a standard set-up. I am talking to EVO magazine about running a comparison with the new Cayenne Turbo when it's available, so hopefully we can come up with some stats to back up the road impressions.
https://mbworld.org/forums/ml55-amg-ml63-amg-w163-w164/176789-adjustable-ride.html
It makes quite a big difference to the handling. I lowered it a litte further than in the pictures and the improvement was vast but it left too little room for the dampers/shocks to work and I found it bottoming when hitting an undulation in the road at high-speed (i.e. 90mph+). So I raised it back up 0.5" or so.
When you drive the ML63 really quickly it can feel like it's up on 'tippy-toes', lowering it by 1" reduces this feeling and lowering it a further 1" completely eliminates the feeling. When in such a lowered state I found that the ML63 could be cornered aggressively enough to get all four tyres sliding, when it sits higher this doesn't happen since the weight transfer ends up scrubbing the front tyres wide (i.e. push/understeer).
It's this weight transfer that more than anything limits the ML63's pace when compared to standard sports sedan. I haven't driven an E63, but I've driven plenty of M5s and the ML63 wouldn't even get close. I drive around (on the same roads) in my Z4M Coupe and as soon as they get twisty it's much quicker than the ML - but that's only to be expected.
The ML handles well enough to use its 500+hp, but isn't the best handling SUV in a standard set-up. I am talking to EVO magazine about running a comparison with the new Cayenne Turbo when it's available, so hopefully we can come up with some stats to back up the road impressions.
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'08 CL63
Great information DoctorD! Appreciate all your insight here!
I've owned my ML63 for about 3 months with about 6K miles on it and have absolutely no complaints. I would love to see a comparison of the 2008 CTT and the ML63.
Dave
I've owned my ML63 for about 3 months with about 6K miles on it and have absolutely no complaints. I would love to see a comparison of the 2008 CTT and the ML63.
Dave
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From: Vancouver Canada
07 ML63 Silver Dead at 85k, 14 RS5, 05 SL600
Thanks for response Dr D.
How do you find the handling of the ML now lowered compared to the X5 4.8
you mentioned in an earlier thread?
Also did the lowering affect your headlight allignment?
Am I imagining this or has someone else noticed this- when you romp on it the wheels slip a little and the front end raises significantly (unlike in the SRT8 vs ML video)- and the headlights adjust down so as not to blind other drivers. As the front end comes back down the headlights come back up.
What a well thought out touch!
How do you find the handling of the ML now lowered compared to the X5 4.8
you mentioned in an earlier thread?
Also did the lowering affect your headlight allignment?
Am I imagining this or has someone else noticed this- when you romp on it the wheels slip a little and the front end raises significantly (unlike in the SRT8 vs ML video)- and the headlights adjust down so as not to blind other drivers. As the front end comes back down the headlights come back up.
What a well thought out touch!
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if i was driving the ml, then it would be a different story
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As far as other sports cars are concerned...or even sedans,,,,in terms of slalom and g force and braking...how far up the chain does the ML63 fit in...what is its equal in comparison to CARS not other SUV's...we know about the HP, but would an ML out handle a 540 sedan or a buick lacrosse or a Miata...what car has the handling capabilities of the AMG suv ?
Out handle a 540i or a Miata. Thats like saying a jumbo jet in more manuverable than a F-22 raptor.
Not possible, not even the 4.8is X5 or the cayenne turbo came close and they're very good handling Suvs, its just not going to happen, the cars arent light enough nor are they nimble enough.
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Out handle a 540i or a Miata. Thats like saying a jumbo jet in more manuverable than a F-22 raptor.
Not possible, not even the 4.8is X5 or the cayenne turbo came close and they're very good handling Suvs, its just not going to happen, the cars arent light enough nor are they nimble enough.
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No I havent, but I have driven a W164 ML350 and while there is a little bit of handling difference I cant imagine the 63 being much better.
I have a W163 ML55, and I also have driven a W163 ML320, difference is not that substantial. I autocrossed the 55 and it dives under during hard cornering because all its weight tips foward in the twisties the body rolls, while the 63 is stiffer, im sure it still rolls fairly subtaintally.
Its an SUV, not a sports car. If the ML63 can keep up with my A4 through the bends, then ill give it props.
I have a W163 ML55, and I also have driven a W163 ML320, difference is not that substantial. I autocrossed the 55 and it dives under during hard cornering because all its weight tips foward in the twisties the body rolls, while the 63 is stiffer, im sure it still rolls fairly subtaintally.
Its an SUV, not a sports car. If the ML63 can keep up with my A4 through the bends, then ill give it props.
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'08 M5, '10 Land Cruiser
However, Range Rover Sport is arguably better looking and more prestigious while unarguably better off road. Best engine for it is the new 3.6 TDV8 giving 270bhp, 480lb/ft and 25mpg.
A friend has a 4.6iS and that handles better than the Cayenne, imo.
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ML 63
Having had the ml63 for a week now, and having had a ml55 for 3 years, I can tell you there is no comparison. The 63 feels like the finally spent some money on the suspension. The car is much more controlled in all situations, especially on the brakes. The old Ml used to dive a lot under heavy braking, but this new one stays much more flat (maybe its the air suspension). Also the handleing is totally different... where the old ML would understeer everywhere... the new one is much more neutral and can be steered with the throttle, and the understeer only starts to appear much later.
I took the Ml out to the twisties the other day to see what it would do, and personally, I think the ML will hold its own against a 545 or an E500. M5 or E55 is another league.
losing in an e350, only if the e350 is the only one "racing".
All you people that are claiming this and that without having driven it should have a more open mind...
Remember when the CTT beat an M3 around Evo magazine's test track...
I took the Ml out to the twisties the other day to see what it would do, and personally, I think the ML will hold its own against a 545 or an E500. M5 or E55 is another league.
losing in an e350, only if the e350 is the only one "racing".
All you people that are claiming this and that without having driven it should have a more open mind...
Remember when the CTT beat an M3 around Evo magazine's test track...
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545sport is better than an E55 around the twisties. As concerns the ML63 vs the ML55 the 55 is fairly quick in a straightline but a very poor handling car overall while I drove a new ML500 and found the handling very good indeed for an SUV
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I love the ML63 but dude, have a sense of reality. While the ML63 has incredible on-road performance, its hardly an SUV and its not a sports car. 0-60? Slalom course times? If you wanted a sports car, you should've bought one. You may be able to beat most cars off the line but an average sports sedan can do circles around you once you hit the twisties.
As for me, I chose a performance SUV that can actually go off-road.
Last edited by NY C32; Jan 12, 2007 at 11:49 AM.
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AMG ML63, M3 CSL, Z4M Coupe, New Audi TT, Audi R8 (coming)
I have owned or driven pretty much all of the leading performance SUVs and in my experience the X5 4.8is is still the one I rate as the best handling of the lot. Most people wouldn't have the confidence to drive an SUV really quickly, but I used to drive that 4.8is through corners with all four tyres sliding at over 90mph. It was truly excellent and more than a match for a 5-series (which I also owned) along the same roads. The ML63 is good enough for me to still enjoy a spirited drive, it feels bigger and breaks away less progressively on the limit, but it's still able to cover ground at a prodigous rate. But it doesn't provide the same level of confidence (or control) on the limit and therefore ultimately isn't quite as effective as it could be.
But ultimately I leave the racing for the race track and I'm quite confident that nobody needs to go any faster than any of the good performance SUVs. So whatever slim margin in certain conditions that a sports saloon/sedan may have, it's nothing more than academic in the real world.
The 'point' of a performance SUV is two-fold in my experience; firstly it allows you to own a reasonably practical/utility focused vehicle whilst still retaining high-performance, and secondly going so quickly in something SUV-shaped feels quicker than it would if in something lower and more sports-car oriented. It doesn't suit everyone's tastes, but these are attributes that I value.
I also own traditionaly (i.e. highly dynamic) sports cars as I imagine most people able to buy an ML63 would do, so asserting that they 'should have bought' a sports car instead seems a disingenious comment, since they probably did...already.
But ultimately I leave the racing for the race track and I'm quite confident that nobody needs to go any faster than any of the good performance SUVs. So whatever slim margin in certain conditions that a sports saloon/sedan may have, it's nothing more than academic in the real world.
The 'point' of a performance SUV is two-fold in my experience; firstly it allows you to own a reasonably practical/utility focused vehicle whilst still retaining high-performance, and secondly going so quickly in something SUV-shaped feels quicker than it would if in something lower and more sports-car oriented. It doesn't suit everyone's tastes, but these are attributes that I value.
I also own traditionaly (i.e. highly dynamic) sports cars as I imagine most people able to buy an ML63 would do, so asserting that they 'should have bought' a sports car instead seems a disingenious comment, since they probably did...already.
Last edited by DoctorD; Jan 12, 2007 at 06:48 PM.
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the 63 might be faster around a track
but on the street it wont.
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ML 63
Last edited by Fuzz; Jan 14, 2007 at 12:43 PM.
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