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This is sort of a spin off of my intro thread in the R63 forum. We had started talking about wheel fitment on the Rs, and I figured it'd be a good idea to start this thread over here, so more people could become involved in sharing their insight on what does and does not work on the Rs. If you've got an aftermarket wheel/tire setup, please do post specs and pics!
The last setup we were discussing over in the other thread was on the Wald Black Bison W251. It's got 22x9", +34mm in the front and 22x10", +34mm in the back. Tires are 255/30-22 F and 295/25-22 R, which come out to about 1.6" smaller in OD than the OEM specs. This does allow the car to sit a bit lower overall.
Well that's why I was hoping folks could post up their existing setups here, and then we can see how different suspension and wheel/tire combos work and look. I think the Wald car probably has one of the most aggressive setups on an R. There's also the Inden Design Rs... I'm going to try and get some more info on those and post what I find out here. Can you post some new pics of your car? I know you had it down pretty low, especially with the aftermarket rear air springs you swapped in...
Asanti AF131 22X10 and 35mm offset. Built for a ML63 (brake caliper clearance issues) and bought second hand for my 2008 R320 stock. They fit flush with the body if not a tiny bit proud (stick out). Running Delinte Desert storm 265/40/22 which shake like crazy. Going to install new rubber next summer. LF tire does rub ever so slightly at full lock on inner fender liner (just a rub mark, not much contact). Looks amazing on the car, but yes stock ride height looks a bit high.
houseofdiesel, can you post some pictures of your car with the wheels also? Not sure if you meant to include them in your post, and they just didn't show up (same thing happened to me in the first post here). BTW, are you sure your shaking issues are due to the tires?
Asanti AF131 22X10 and 35mm offset. Built for a ML63 (brake caliper clearance issues) and bought second hand for my 2008 R320 stock. They fit flush with the body if not a tiny bit proud (stick out). Running Delinte Desert storm 265/40/22 which shake like crazy. Going to install new rubber next summer. LF tire does rub ever so slightly at full lock on inner fender liner (just a rub mark, not much contact). Looks amazing on the car, but yes stock ride height looks a bit high.
are you sure the shake is the tire and not the wheels being misaligned or bent? I had 22 back in the days and the wheels kept benting because of the thin sidewall of the tires. Repair did not help and sold it for scrap.
I don't have pics to post yet...I never got around to taking any with the wheels on (that I remember!), right now the wheels are off waiting to be sorted, I tried one shop with a Hunter Roadforce balancer but they had no clue how to work it properly. I just found another shop that does know how, they will be able to tell wheels or tires. I am guessing tires, I spun the wheels myself and they are straight (but machine could not do 22"), these are real forged 3 piece wheels that are repairable not cast crap that you throw out once bent. I have since found out that Delinte tires have known shake issues especially on Mercedes so hopefully it is just tires and a good balancing/wheel matching session can straighten it out or a set of proper tires. These are $6000+ wheels...that the last owner installed $150 tires on.
I have shake issues running the 18" stock wheels which are perfectly straight, it is just a sensitive vehicle to wheel balance, especially on rough roads (which are plenty around here). Full airmatic suspension seems to be the problem. No problems with 17" snows though.
I hope to have them on this fall for pics!
I don't have pics to post yet...I never got around to taking any with the wheels on (that I remember!), right now the wheels are off waiting to be sorted, I tried one shop with a Hunter Roadforce balancer but they had no clue how to work it properly. I just found another shop that does know how, they will be able to tell wheels or tires. I am guessing tires, I spun the wheels myself and they are straight (but machine could not do 22"), these are real forged 3 piece wheels that are repairable not cast crap that you throw out once bent. I have since found out that Delinte tires have known shake issues especially on Mercedes so hopefully it is just tires and a good balancing/wheel matching session can straighten it out or a set of proper tires. These are $6000+ wheels...that the last owner installed $150 tires on.
I have shake issues running the 18" stock wheels which are perfectly straight, it is just a sensitive vehicle to wheel balance, especially on rough roads (which are plenty around here). Full airmatic suspension seems to be the problem. No problems with 17" snows though.
I hope to have them on this fall for pics!
Umm, interesting. I used three sets of wheels on my R500 and they were all fine except the bent wheels. This is the first time that I heard about the r-class are sensitive to wheels and tires.
houseofdiesel: have you considered checking other components in your drivetrain to see if they may be the root of your "shaking" issues? Since you mentioned getting the shakes even with different wheels, then it might be a good idea to go through your brakes, hubs/wheel bearings, axles, etc...
justin: any pics of your wheels on your car? We need more pics in this thread!
Here's a couple pics of Rs done by Inden Design in Germany. No idea on the fitment info, and Inden hasn't been too good about replying to info inquiries
well, I didn't want this thread to die just yet.. so here's some pics of an R with 22x10.5" Vossen wheels. unfortunately, there's no real fitment info available, and even vossen does not provide any offset numbers on their own site (further proof that american-based wheel companies are horrible at educating and informing the US market about fitment). from a cursory web search, I believe the wheels are probably about +42mm offset. And considering the slight stretch and semi-meaty profile of the tires, I'd guess they are probably a 265/35-22
here's my r500, I've done the whole 22" low profile thing already on a few other cars, and for year round daily use there just not practical for me, I've bent up more than my fair share of 3 piece wheel barrels through the years. I now prefer some wheels that can take a bit more pounding, but I do still really like an aggressive low stance too.
I went a different way than most, instead of low profile 22's I decided to go with over sized 20's to really stuff the wheel wells. I think visually it makes the whole truck look even lower than it is and also gives my R a well rounded aggressive look, also makes the R look smaller in a way too
I used 265/50-20's which have a diameter of 30.4", these were the original tires I had on my FX, the stock R is 29" dia. these are ml63 rims, 20X10" with an et of +46
here it is sitting behind my dead atm FX which is on a staggered set of 22's, 11" 315/30-22's out back, each wheel on all 4 corners of this car are bent to death, 22's don't work in nyc year round, that's for sure
Would you say the FX has a larger wheelwell opening than the R? I always thought it'd be the other way around... hmmm...
Also, in the pic thread you mentioned having done a brake upgrade...can you elaborate on that?
yeah, the fx has a slightly larger wheel well, the fx comes with 30.4" diameter wheel stock, the R is 29"... they are very similar but the R opening is slightly smaller
I was originally going to do the R63 brake upgrade, found a full set up in canada from an ML63 but instead I decided to go with brembo 8 piston monoblock front and 4 piston rears. the aluminum fixed mount calipers are lighter and dissipate heat better and have more stopping power. the ML63 brakes would have just bolted on though, instead these took some custom work to fit to the R
the reason mercedes went with the heavier cast caliper mount floaters on the R63 and older ML's and even the new AMG S class is for silence, the fixed mount Brembo's tend to squeal and squeak and can be more prone to pedal pulsations but the stopping power is just insane and they are much lighter
I used the new model ML63 rotors front and rear, 15.4" front and 13.8" rear, factory cross drilled and slotted... the calipers were originally from an S55 AMG, mercedes used Brembo GT80 front/GT40 rears on the big AMG cars for a few years, 03-06... absolutely killer brakes... on the SL65 with P31 option they even used 2 piece rotors but I decided to go with the 1 piece ML63 rotors for the same reason I stayed with 20's instead of 22's, less headaches on a daily driver... I've also done the whole 2 piece rotor thing on the fx and while they are really great for reducing unsprung mass and rotating weight they are also a bit finicky and high maintenance items, less than ideal for a daily driver that see's over 25K miles a year
I originally did the calipers in a very low key gold color but I think that got a little boring and would really kind of hide the brakes, so I just recently redid them in red like the new ML63's... still haven't labeled them yet, torn between either Brembo decals or AMG decals... they just look too generic with no text label. I think either AMG or Brembo would both be acceptable because that's what they really are, but I'm not into all that poser crap so I'm not sure which I really want to do. I would leave them naked but they just don't look right big red bold and naked
I also raised the rear back up ~1/2", was starting to really ride choppy especially when self lowering at high speeds, now at this height it rides great again, to go any lower and still ride great I've got to do some more suspension mods... not sure if I even want to, I think visually it doesn't look like it "needs" to be any lower than this, might play with suspension more some time in the future but for now I'm happy with it's stance I guess. for me best way to judge visually whether a car needs to be lowered more is by looking at it from a distance, I think this one now doesn't look like it's sitting too high. it might with 22's but the taller 20's really stuff the wheel wells nicely and it rides really nicely. I've done the whole low pro slammed choppy riding thing too many times in the past, I think I'm just getting too old though cause now I want comfort and to drive really fast without bouncing out of my seat and hitting my head on the sunroof
Got some wheel/tire fitment info regarding the Inden Design W251s. Please scroll above to my previous posts to see the pics of the cars I am referring to.
The maroon car is running 23x11" wheels with 315/25R23 tires front and rear.
The black car has 19x8.5" wheels with 245/50R19 all around.
And the silver car has a staggered setup with 21" wheels in 9" width in front, and 10.5" in rear with 245/35R21 front and 285/30R21 rear.
@turbocad6 sorry just saw your post now. How is the pedal feel on your upgraded BBK? Did you do any stainless steel hoses? After doing an ML55 BBK w/ SS on my ML430 and having a car with Carbon Ceramics, I'm finding the brake feel on the stock R63 brakes to be very squishy. It seems like no one makes SS lines for that car nor the ML63.
In regards to your brakes, I'd personally go with Brembo in black lettering. On my ML I went with Mercedes-Benz since that's what they said, even on the ML55.
I had always wondered about upgrading to the fixed calipers from another AMG vehicle also, and it was great to see turbocad's project. But I think the cost:reward ratio isn't as great for an R63 as opposed to starting off with a non-63 model...a especially after I stumbled on these posts:
for a street-driven R63, I think going with a setup similar to that guy's is probably the most optimal...stainless lines, refreshed oem sliding calipers with good pads, coupled with some 2-pc rotors (and with the sliding calipers, fixed rotors should work just fine). about the lines, I'm assuming the ML63 ones should be similar, if not exactly the same...if that's the case, racingbrakes might be the way to go for those.
genericSN I'm using stock lines and there fine. I've done a few brake upgrades and have tried cars with and without ss lines back to back and honestly the difference in pedal feel from stock lines to ss is minimal and many times I think it's over hyped. the difference is mostly when you apply a whole lot of pressure, more than just average spirited driving. yeah SS lines feel harder when you sit in the car and stand on the pedal as hard as you can there you really feel the difference, but it's very possible to have a firm pedal feel and great brake feel overall even without SS lines.
I'd start by flushing the fluid and bleeding it. if it still feels mushy when braking it could be that the pads are glazed to some degree, if the stopping power isn't there then the pedal can feel mushy. you could try a few high speed hard stops stops to re bed the pads.
side by side all else being equal the difference is not so much to ever say you "need" ss lines on a street car, the stock lines are not swelling up like balloons here and the difference between them and ss braided is minimal in day to day driving. I'm not saying the braided is not better, I'm just saying that the brakes could be and should be great even without them if that helps at all
My set up now on my R320 is Brabus springs with 22 x 10 authentic Monoblock E Brabus wheels wrapped with 295/30/22s I plans to get all season 285/35/22s because the latter tires are 29.0" exactly and I'd rather be at 29.9". With my current springs and links in the back (current 1.3" drop), it should feel up that hideous tire gap. Turbocad, I think you have answered a lot of my questions. I am debating on grabbing the Ml 63 brakes calipers from that same shop in Canada or buying a used set here in Germany. I can also get a set of the 8piston/4/piston aMG brakes but finding a good machine shop here in Germany is difficult. I'll PM you if that's ok to ask about other parts that are needed for the ML/r63 brakes conversion (I.e ml63 rear dust plates, mounting brackets, etc.
pS my Panamera 4S has 35mm h &r springs with 20" turbo wheels for the winter and 21" 3pc Cargraphic wheels for the summer Both are forged and really can't feel the road despite the 265/35/21 in the front and 295/30/21s series in the rear for summer and 255/40/20 and 285/35/20 in winter. The suspension system on the Porsche far outweighs the R where you do feel the road more. 35s on the r should help.
Last edited by alenaduran; 06-03-2015 at 02:18 PM.
Reason: Wording
08-05-2014, 06:21 PM
