market000

I'm trying to helpa friend with an old AMG sedan.......it is a 1979 6.9L. Anyone heard of it or know any websites to get some info?????

kaneman

AMG was not a part of Mercedes back then. What you are looking for is a 450SEL 6.9. You are better off looking for a 1986 or newer 560SEL. They're much easier to find in good condition, better on gas AND good examples don't go for silly money. They're also pretty comparable in speed although the 6.9 puts out quite a bit more torque.

EuroCoupe

Where you been kaneman... AMG has been tuning Benzes since the 60's. Yes, I have heard/seen AMG 6.9's. As far as a website you may want to try http://www.m-100.org. I'm not sure if much AMG info is there but somebody there may be able to help. Most 6.9 AMG's were cosmetic only, meaning wheels, air dams/spoilers, etc. Any pics of the car?

egxpimp

Im just wondering was there ever any AMG w126's upgrades for the engine ? if so i would be interested...or barbus even better .

EuroCoupe

Yes, do some searches. AMG bored out the 5.0 to 5.4L and the 5.6 to 6.0L. They had hotter cams, intake manifolds, exhaust manifolds, and even made 32v heads that fit the 5.0, 5.6 and 6.0 engines. A 6.0 with 32v heads and all the fixings ran $44,000 in 1986, that's just for the engine. Good luck finding any of this nowadays. Brabus bored the motors out to 6.0 as well and had cams. Finding a nice set of AMG cams for your 500SE will be like trying to find a needle in a haystack.

kaneman

Sure they've been tuning cars since the 60s but NOT as a part of Mercedes! The first AMG car produced in cooperation with the factory was the C36. AMG didn't merge with Mercedes until 1998. So anything before that was the same as Brabus, Kleeman or whatever. You took the car over to them and they made the modifications but the factory wasn't involved. The 300SEL 6.3 and the 450SEL 6.9 are factory hot rods but are NOT AMG cars. So unless you have a 6.3 or 6.9 that was AMG-fettled calling it an AMG 6.9 is wrong.

Hattaresguy

The 6.9 is a W116 to not a W126. Different car different animal. As to finding aftermarket parts try m-100.org as stated above. However their probably isn't any, put the money into restoring it. 450SEL 6.9's were real nice factory hot rods. Unless AMG did something to it it is not an AMG. Putting an AMG badge on it doesn't count and looks stupid.

EuroCoupe

So in your eyes I would be correct in saying that since my 560SEC was bored to 6.0L and fitted with 32v heads and the full AMG treatment to the tune of $65,000 in addition to the sticker price, I do not own an AMG car since AMG wasn't being paid by Daimler to do the work? Huh, never thought of it that way... You can call it whatever you want but to me and 99% of the Mercedes enthusiasts, it is referred to as an AMG car. AMG did tune the 6.3 and 6.9 motors and I would certainly call one an AMG car if it was.

HighRev

that´s entirely right! after AMG became a part of MB the founder of AMG Hans Werner Aufrecht founded a new company named "HWA". they build the mercedes-cars for the german DTM-series.
but BTT

auser

Here is the site:

http://www.m-100.cc/

But you really want to read this thread:

http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforu....php3?t=108750

Short answer, stay away from the car.

EuroCoupe

That's mostly about 6.3's. Parts are more expensive and rare for the 6.3's. 6.9 is a little easier to maintain.

schwarzwagen

didnt you build your car yourself... from parts off a totaled widebody?

EuroCoupe

I certainly didn't bore the engine to 6.0L and manufacture the 32v heads! I just dropped the drivetrain and all interior/electrical/suspension/brake components into my car. So yes, AMG didn't put my particular car together. I'm pretty sure Neil, the owner of the W124 wagon with C36 engine, refer's to his car as an E36T, as would I if I owned it. You guys can call it whatever you want and I am perfectly honest with everyone up front when I tell them what my car has in it and where it came from.

ptoro01

Here are some pics of what the 450sel looks like with the amg special...

I will be including more pics when I finally get mine painted and finished off

EuroCoupe

That's bad ***... Any engine mods by AMG? Too bad its not an AMG car though since Mercedes didn't own AMG when your car was put together...

tgentry

I find the attitude towards earlier (pre MB owned) AMG's peculiar. I would consider such cars more "real" AMG than the post MB buyout cars.

When AMG was an independant company they could do as they pleased, and often created cars that MB never would have approved of. Now they are controlled by big brother MB and everything has to be approved by MB management creating very nice, but somewhat more conservative cars.

This is like calling a '65 Shelby GT-350 less of a "Shelby" than a '70 Shelby GT-350 (which had major Ford involvement). This is just the opposite of how these cars are viewed.

Anyone care to explain? Or perhaps I'm just misinterpreting what's being said here.

EuroCoupe

tgentry, hopefully you caught my sarcasm but maybe not... I'm totally on board with you here. Authentic AMG's to me are the cars that were done independently from Mercedes. Everything was handmade and it was entrepreneurship at its best. Just my opinion...

Chappy

I like ALL the AMGs

Interestingly, there MUST have been some cooperation between Mercedes-Benz and AMG, long before the C36.

Proof: My W124 CD Repair Manual lists part numbers for the AMG 3.4 liter 6.

Too bad that in todays climate, AMG does not support (meaning spare parts, etc.) the "old school" AMG cars any longer. Without spare parts, many of these classic treasures will be lost.....unable to be faithfully restored 20 or 30 years from now.

Brabus and RennTech are about the closest thing to what AMG once was.

kaneman

Did AMG tune it and put the thing together? Do the chassis numbers match? Did you have the car taken over to AMG and spend $65k to have it tuned? If yes, then HELL YES it's an AMG car. If you just stripped the drivetrain and dropped it in a car... not an AMG. It's a damn nice car (and I'd love to have the drivetrain in my 560SEL), it has an AMG DRIVETRAIN but it's not an AMG car because AMG didn't do the work. You may say "Who cares"; the answer is that a LOT of people care. Try selling your car as an AMG and see how much you get for it. You'll get a hell of a lot less than you would for a car that was originally modded by AMG with a verifiable history.

Look at it this way. If I take a 190E and drop a 2.5 engine out of an EVOII into it, does that make it an Evo II? NO! It's a 190E that now goes a hell of a lot faster.

Back to the topic at hand; re-read what I said carefully. Factory 6.9s are NOT AMG CARS because AMG didn't touch them. There's a popular myth that AMG did tune the engines of the 6.3 and 6.9 but I've never seen any hard proof of this. For the 6.3 I believe it to be impossible as AMG was born around the time this car was produced. AMG's first car was indeed a wrecked doctor's car. Now if they had ties to the factory from the beginning, why would they need to buy a wrecked secondhand MB? By the time the 6.9 came out they were definitely a larger, stronger company but still not that closely tied to the factory. If they had been, why would MB go to Porsche for the 500E, even after AMG produced the absolutely amazing Hammer???

As for how pre-merger AMG cars are treated, precisely WHERE did I ever say such cars are NOT AMG cars? I think they're a hell of a lot more AMG than some of the stuff coming out these days with an ///AMG badge on it (hello, G55? ML55?)

Re-read my original post. What I said, precisely, was that the 450 SEL is NOT an AMG car. All 6.9s were NOT tuned by AMG. I'm sure they tuned some of them (and I'd LOVE to find one), but a vanilla 6.9 IS NOT an AMG car and the car in question (unless I'm missing something) most certainly wasn't tuned by AMG.

Yes it's nitpicky as hell, but some of us Mercedes fanatics care deeply about the history of these cars and to ****-ists like me it IS important.

EuroCoupe

That's the interesting thing about matching chassis numbers on older AMG cars... there isn't any. Its not like matching up the numbers on a '69 Nova SS. It didn't work that way. Any and all paperwork to speak of has long been disposed of if it was done at AMG North America. I talked to the former owner in person and he explained that it has been long gone, he sells antique furniture now. I would NEVER be able to track the bill of sale for my donor car since it was originally purchased by the then Prince, now King of Jordan, Abdullah II. All I have is a $12,000 itemized service bill from RennTech that was done 700 miles ago and the documented installation receipt for the motor, tranny, exhaust all wiring and computers, full interior, brakes, suspension, bumpers, spoilers, wheels, etc, etc, etc. I agree with you that it is not as valuable as the original chassis, that's a no brainer. By the way, AMG took second place in the 24 hours at Spa race in 1968 with a 6.3 that was modified to 6.8L and was their first car that put them on the map. The 6.9 wasn't bored or stroked by AMG, just cams and intake/exhaust.