s500c

I talk to Bergwerks today. They said they have abandoned their supercharger program for the 140 s 500. The guy told me there was not enough room in the engine bay for fabrication of the kit without the price shooting to the damn moon. I don't know about you guys, but I would go to the moon & back for my overweight coupe to run the 1320 in the mid 12's!! Anyway they say they are developing a NOS system with 75hp and 150hp settings. So I guess all is not lost. I'm just a little afraid using TNT (aka NOS) in my $35k engine.

99bmw740il

$35000 engine... are you smokin crack? The car isn't even $35000.

dtkw

Last time I checked, with only 42K miles and perfect conditon, private sales value was only $32,000.00. What engine would cost more than the car??

Dual 5Ls

Ok, if anyone even runs NOS in a Mercedes, I will personally slam my fist in their groin. The only time you should ever run NOS, is if you're drag racing and you can't win without it, aka your car sucks. I'd never run NOS in any car, ever, unless I for the sole purpose of making fun of ricers, by ricing out a honda and destroying it on purpose.

What is driving up the cost so high? I've looked at my 500, and it seems like you could make a low profile manifold with an Eaton roots blower and make it work. What I couldn't see without going higher cost is running a centrifugal supercharger. There just isn't room to put one and mount it, with or without moving the coolant reservior. Do you know what the problem was? Height issues and hood clearance? I wonder by how much if thats the case...

s500c

WOW!! Did you say I must be smoking crack !! Damn you guys are a bit cruel, just trying to share a little info (where's the class?). 99740i, I understand why you have an attitude problem, I once had a 740il- what a piece of sh^t car.... And that price was for a "new 95 m119" engine from the benz dealer, but I doubt that you could figure that out either.

E55AMG99

What's wrong with N20? I've run it in a couple of vehicles with 100% success. One was a somewhat stock 91 Acura Legend and the other was a highly modified Corvette. The former was a real sleeper that got 30MPG and would blow the doors off any Porsche at the time. The latter was a street legal, daily driver that would get 20MPG and click off low 11 second runs with the AC on! I could run in two different race classes with or without the N2O and had no trouble winning races in either.

From the sound of your last paragraph, I'd guess that you are an engineer by trade. There's always a way to make it work, right?

Manufacturers spend $$$ doing market research to determine if demand will be sufficient for their product. If the demand is too low to justify spending another couple hundred grand making their $12,000 product work in a particular application, they just won't build it.

99bmw740il

OK 10 year old pimp Anyway if an engine blew you wouldnt buy a new one, you'd buy a remaned for ~$6000.

Dual 5Ls

Ok, so I had this big reply on why I hate NOS and then into why I hate ricing and guys with Acuras who race porsches... eh hem... But, I lost the internet connection because some n00b disabled the network for some reason... Surrounded by idiots I tell you! Anyway, with you running NOS in your 'vette on the strip, thats ok, I have respect for that. You're making the fast faster. But the Acura, c'mon now. Thats a sedan, not made to haul *** and go race people for an ego boost or whatever reason. Porsches are designed for speed and do it with or without forced induction, right out of the box. Anyone can add NOS to a car and make it fast. All those 4cyl and Honda guys do it all the time . Hell, you can make a damn Geo Metro fast with enough juice and boost! That doesn't mean anything thouhg, you take that stuff away, and what do you have? An economy car. Leave it on and what do you have? An economy car with NOS. You can't take away a car's roots. Anyway, I guess I made that into another long post. Heh, I just really have strong opinions against NOS used outside of the drag strip on cars that shouldn't be raced in the first place. Don't take that personally though, I'm not meaning any harm, just being blunt with my opinion.

About the engineering thing, I'm actually not an engineer, at all. Just do my homework and like to learn as much as possible about whatever I'm interested in. I've been told I should go into engineering though, and I may consider that.

Bergwerks and the w140 kit, I think they're just giving up too soon. But hey, if I ever make one, thats just more business for me, right? I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I charged 12k for one though, thats just greedy.

Another note, I love the 740s. We have an e38 and the only complaint I have is the interior. After driving the 500, the interior on the BMW just feels poorly made and not in the same league in any way as the Mercedes. The trim likes to break and fall off too. The plus side to the car is almost everything else. Looks great, bulletproof powertrain, easy to get parts for it, no major problems to watch out for, nothing. Just a solid built car. Only needs routine maintainence and it will last forever. There are two gripes people have with the car. 1, the interior. 2, the transmission. The tranny on those cars are a sealed unit, which means its never supposed to leak or need service. So, if it ever did develop a problem, then you just replace the whole thing and you're out the price of a new Hyundia Accent. The tranny is a well built piece though, so its not too common that they break, but when they do, owners tend to make a BIIIIG stink about them. Anyway, back to the drawing board...

99bmw740il

BJ, hows the porsche?

E55AMG99

No harm in being blunt with one's opinions. I respect that but don't understand your disticntion between N2O and any other aftermarket performance addition. In 1991, I couldn't justify spending an additional $20K for the comparable Benz or BMW whose performance was SLOWER than the Acura. In fact, the Acura was almost as fast as my 1985 Carrera Cabriolet was stock so I must disagree with your statement about the Acura only being a luxury car and not designed for speed. If I put a supercharger or changed the cams, would that have been acceptable modifications?

I have many friends that are engineers and you sound like every one of them! I think you'd be pretty good.

Like I said in my previous post, it is all about economics. I guess one can say that they are only charging whatever the market can bear but how do we know how much it is costing them to produce? I only see 3-4 reliable aftermarket tuners for Benz but hundreds for GM cars. Why? GM makes millions of cars every year with few engine choices due to most being sold in the US. MB makes less than one million and has dozens of engines required to comply with each market's requirements making as many as 6 different car/engine combos (E class). The market for GM parts much larger, therefore R&D and rampup costs are a much smaller percentage of the actual product cost. If it wasn't his way, I'd be a Benz tuner myself.

It costs me $1,000,000 to design a product and $1,000 to build each one. If I build and sell only one, I need to sell it for $1,001,000. If I build and sell 1000, I only need to charge $2,000 to break even.

Dual 5Ls

Eh, its in the garage still waiting more funds... The top part of the frame is shifted so I have to have that pulled out an inch or so, but that shouldn't be a big deal. Its soft metal and its not the actual frame rails that are bent, just where the top of the fender bolts on next to the hood. After thats done, I just reassemble it and get the paint done. In the meantime, I'm going to tear down the top part of the engine to fix the intake tuning flap (called the flappy valve for short), and whatever else needs work while I'm in there. These cars are bulletproof though, amazed how strong they are, with exception to aluminum panels of course. But, when I drove it home from the body shop where it was inspected by the insurance adjuster, it ran like a champ, fast as hell! That was the last time I drove it, and I'm REALLY tempted to take it out for a spin without a quarter of the body on it . That would be funny to see. I can't resize the picture to get it small enough to post here, so I'll email it to you. This computer has nothing to resize stuff with, the desktop does but it needs a reformat. Thanks for asking though!

dtkw

I agree with you regarding your Porsche. Remember the movie Cannonball Run? They had a jeep went over the Porshce? Well, I don't know how many times they had to do that in order to push the top down. What a body frame!

Dual 5Ls

E55,
My distinction is purely based on my view of NOS as a band-aid way to get power, outside of serious drag racing. NOS is something that is switched on by choice, meaning that if you're using it on the street, its so you can win, because the car isn't fast enough to do so by itself. And yes, if you swapped cams and installed a supercharger setup, that would be different in my mind. At that point, you're really getting into the engine work and modification. I know that sounds like I'm contradicting myself with previous statements about adding a turbo kit, but I was referring to 4cyl cars with turbos, and the generally inherent lack of power that most of them have. I guess its just really hard to explain how I classify acceptible mods and power vs. cost and all that type of stuff. At this point, we can just say that I don't like NOS, I'd never use it, and I'm a confusing and complex guy with almost hard to itterate views on performance and car mods . I'll just leave it that . For the record though, I had looked into buying a '91 Legend LS back in the day, and it was quick. They are great cars, from beginning of production to the end. You know that later 3.2l 6 they used in the legend went into the NSX. Now thats a car I'd LOVE to have !
I may go into engineering, I'm now thinking about it more and more, and you may be right, I could turn out to be good at it.
I do understand the R&D costs vs. sales and all of that stuff, but I'm not talking about spending thousands upon thousands on R&D and prototyping. I could make a one-off and reproduce it as needed, and not have to sell my soul to get it all said and done, ya know? Its really too bad they scrapped the project though, that would have been nice to see someone actually make a supercharger for the w140 V8s. I'll have to get together with some of the guys and take this as an opportunity , sorry, couldn't resist on the whissle tip guy .

Dual 5Ls

Haha, very good! In fact, they had to cut the B pillars in order for it to be crushed, it was too strong . Great movie minus that part

E55AMG99

Fair enough. You seem to have a very complex thought process. Definately engineer material. I'm more of the cameleon/McGyver type myself and can make just about anything work well. My experience with the Drake Offy Indy cars of the 70's and the Lotus Esprit taught me some valuable lessons about making power. It's not always about the size of the engine but how much fuel you can stuff into it!

Bernanke

the MAX nos i'd run is 50-75 shot, anything higher is just suicide, honestly only 50 shot is really super safe, the rest are not. hope that helps

s500c

I read an earlier post by BlownS420 where he said he has a custom made vortech supercharger on his S420 that only cost $4000, and he seemed to think that was too much. I'd say that is one HELL of a deal, a "CUSTOM BLOWER" for a mercedes, complete for only 4 G's .. now if this is true could BlownS420 possibly tell us who at vortech to talk to, I need a couple ... they'd make such great party gifts at that price !!

Bernanke

"custom" is the best way to go. SC kits only cost around $2000-3000 to make, the rest is "***-raping" fees not to mention "mercedes $$$$ fee" it sky rockets to higher prices. when you buy a benz SC kit your paying for alot more than just SC kit.

Klasse Ac'

im a new one here. i came to find information about the W140 S Class. it has always been in the back of my mind. It is a very nice car. I decided to check out the people that own them. i currently own a 1991 Acura Legend LS and it is nothing short of aggressive when pushed. the NSX used a version of the Legend's C27A (C30A for NSX) engine from the 1990 "G1" Acura Legend. in 1991 the Legend gained .5L(SOHC 200-230hp C32A, the NSX DOHCversion was labeled C32B), size, weight, but it also gained ALOT of speed. it has been on the Top of cars to own on my list since i was a young lad. the W140 has been near the top for quite a while as well. Also available with a 5 speed and 6 speed the Legend sedan and coupe were top class runners in their time. It kinda hurt to see it down played here. Anyways.

I'm really interested in the W140. i like its styling, and its size is great. i would be more interested in an S320 from i guess 96 and up? I'm eager to learn all the problems and reliability issues with this car.

Also, can you point me in in the direction of some iconic W140s. i'd love to learn about the goodones. i hope to get to know you all.

also do any of you know the build structure of the S-Class's inline 6 engine, has it been modified to the extent of some other inline 6's.

well i rambled enough here, thanks for listening.

BTW im a Mechanical Engineering major at NCA&T State.

EDIT:
I have searched up the common issues with the W140 chassis but one thing im still not too sure on is what about the Gas engine. i read about the S350 diesel and the AC condensor and a few other need-to-know common issues but what about the Gas 6 cylinder?

thanks for your looking at this

Dual 5Ls

The 3.2l 6 is a pretty damn solid engine. The only problem I've heard is some lady blew a head gasket, but apparently she wasn't the most attentive car person, so who knows. I'd feel completely confident buying any of the engines if the services have been done, and the wiring harness replaced on the V8s. Why do you want the weaker engine? Thats a HUGE car and even with the 5l V8, the 0-60 is only 7.5, which is great for a car that size, but not fast. I drove around a 300SEL (w126 chassis) for a while, and it did perform ok in town, but it just didn't have the ***** my 500 does, and on the freeway it really winds up, like 3500rpms at 80, or maybe more, can't remember. But if you want a w140 with better fuel economy, the 320 or 420 would be a good way to go, but personally I'd opt for the 420. You could always mod the 320, but then you're up to the price of a 500 engine at that point, and probably quite a bit more for the same power.

Klasse Ac'

i have a thing for inline and V style 6 cylinder engines:v, also a welding class was on my top things to do in the near future.

barry S320V

Real men get blown not gassed

Dano500

DOh !
--------

You should say to those Bergwerg-guys that they shuold change their Cupercharger model to comething newer like --> ROTREX

I¨ve got mine working as i explain in TWINTURBO thread

-Teemu aka Dano