MusFather

Yea it was hard to believe bro but i think it was REG. suspension on 17inch wheels. But not 100% sure ill found out about that for you.


-Musfather

KrispyK

The LS430 v. S-class handling argument is a ridiculous one. Neither car is designed to be a sports car. I've driven both back-to-back and can say that with conviction. At the same time they're both very competent cars. The Lexus takes a little more time to get used to, due to its greater isolation, but it'll do what you ask it to do very well. And both the LS430 and the S500 both have quite the tendency to understeer. Arguing over which handles better is like arguing whether a Hyundai Sonata is more luxurious than a Kia Optima -- maybe there's an answer, but it's not even worth asking -- both cars are designed to be econoboxes, and its a job they do ... I won't say well ... but it's a job they do.

You want a car that handles well? Buy an M3, or if you have the money, get a Porsche or a Ferrari. I guarantee they'll out-handle any S-class or an LS430, all else being equal. If you want to be pampered in rich leather and comfort, enjoy your S-class or LS.

1SICKLEX

damn I'm gone a couple of days and BLAM! Long thread
I won't buy either car till I'm 60 or something (just to big for me) you can't lose with either one.

mrgolf25

WAZZZZUUUUUUUPPPPPPPPP

my father and i are in the same perdicament. but i like the ********* more. i'm not telling:p

DeeGuy

I owned both Lexus and mercedes. Okay, lexus engine might be reliable like HONDA, but the quality and the residual value of the car also sux( worst than toyota), the most shameful thing is my security guy who guard the gate at my residential area, drive a LS400. Can you believe that? he paid only $6500, he traded in his honda civic for that car. I owned a LX470 this car is rock when it is new, but after 2 years, problems start to rise, when the light goes out, the car never tells me. I already replaced 3-5 bulbs for this car in a year. the cost for each service in my dealers is more than my old 97 e420. I paid over 60k for this car. I want to trade the car with lincoln navigator. Now S500, I blew passed GS430 easily on the freeway with my S500, not to say the "big avalon" LS430. i don't think the LS 430 would out handle the S500 too. If I had the choice, S class all the way, even i I don't have the money to buy, I will choose the bottom line S-class, S430? S320? S280? There is nothing can replace that three pointed star on the hood. In some countries, people driving a benz is like a symbol of success, I dunno about Lexus, In some country, there is no LEXUS, LEXUS is toyota. GS is toyota aristo, MY LX is toyota cygnus, etc, etc. Oh, I also blew pass a IS 300 in my C 320, with aircon on, three people on the car, trunk full of groceries bags.

DeeGuy

I dunno..its just scary when and unsafe when driving a toyota or lexus, or even my brother 330xi on a high speed, say around 110mph. My bottom of the line drive smoothly at high speed, there is no rush. I dunno, you guys have to try the toyota and try the benz

Dema

It should be interesting to open a similar poll in Lexus owner's forum. I believe that price of a car tells for it. People can hope paying less money get more value. However, it doesn't happen and they just deceive them self. I couldn't afford S600, but could LS430. However, I bought E class for me and LS430 for my wife. I think you will do right conclusion.

Chan

My dad has an 00 S500 and I have an 01 IS300.

So far, my dad's S500 has had more issues than my IS300. I haven't had any trouble except for a few recalls (tires and underbody panel). It had an issue with the shifting and the TRAC being too sensitive.

I've test drive then LS430 and I think its a better car all around. But the S does have the MERCEDES name which gives it a "wow" factor.

Issues with my dad's S500 were:

A/C wasn't blowing out cool enough air
A/C just went out
Front driver's side windows wouldn't work
Parktronic goes off when nothing is nearby.

Tariq

No one can rich Benz..

Lexus what ever they do or go up or down it will still Toyota Car well never be compared with a car called Mercedes Benz

Caliz_Finest

why would anyone who drove a lexus and a s500 think lexus is a better car (YES I HAVE DRIVEN THE LS430) btw chan how exactly was the lexus a better car

Acceleration on the S500 is better, both cars are comfortable, Mercedes has style while Lexus does not and I am surprised with people complaining about mercedes problems on the forum (no im not denying you had problems) but i know my personal experience and many of my friends experiences owning mercedes was just fine with minimal problems

KrispyK

Passion for a car is something one can't really explain, nor convince others to experience similar passion. It's to each their own. Nevertheless, if you want some hard numbers, here are some. Given the relative pricing, I think it's fair to compare an LS430 to an S430. In that situation:

S430's 0-60 is 6.9 seconds. The LS430's is 6.3 seconds. The S430's MSRP base price is $72,000. The LS430's MSRP base price is $55,500. (Both figures are for the 2002 models.) Styling is a subjective issue; you may not find the Lexus to have "style" (and in my subjective opinion, I would have to agree with you), but again, some find the LS430 to be beautiful. To each their own. Handling? The LS430 will keep right up with an S430. Besides, why would anyone look at those two cars anyway if performance is what they want? Drive down the street to your local Bimmer dealer and the 745i will have you smiling with excellent handling.

I've had "minimal" large problems with my own Mercedes, but I've had many, many minor problems. Window switches refusing to work, fuel floaters that die on me, etc., you could blame it on a first year production vehicle, but hey, when you're paying over $55k on a car, you don't want to hear any excuses for why you had to get up extra early to drop your car off because the check engine light decided to light up for absolutely no good reason. From what I've seen with those who own "Lexi," they have almost zero problems, period.

In the end, these two cars cater to different demographics. I think MB owners (including myself) enjoy being ostentatious and letting the world know "we've arrived." Lexus owners, I think, tend to have a different idea, a little less on the "flashy" side, but enjoy a solid reliable car. Having driven both the S500/S430 and the LS430, MB's edge is the "flashiness." You don't get props for driving a Lexus around, well, relative to an MB at least. But you get to pay the extra $17k. I think I'd personally be happier pocketing the $17k; of course, if Lexus put out a V12 S600 competitor, you can bet I'd get the S600.

Chan

Road noise, engine noise, more user friendly console, etc.

Now both the cars are very nice, I honestly would rather take the LS430 because of price point. An LS fully loaded will still be cheaper than the S430 at MSRP with some options....I think...

Chan

This is why sometimes I have no respect for MB owners...they look down upon Lexus saying that "Its just a Toyota". Its just a Toyota rated as #1 Ultra Luxury Car of the year and stuff like that. Now hows that for a Toyota?

Caliz_Finest

point taken, i just think its worth paying more for the s500 (cause i like it better), but thats opinion

Accord

And might I ask who gave these ratings? Any economically concerned American will pick a Toyota/Lexus over a fine piece of German engineering because of it's value and that alone. But for those of us who couldn't give a damn about getting a good deal and saving a few bucks, there is not one incentive in the world for us to buy a boring, over-rated, rebadged Toyota.

Lexus vehicles are rebadged Toyotas, it is a known fact. In Japan and other countries, the name Lexus does not even exist, they are sold under the Toyota brand name.

When you buy a Mercedes-Benz, you're buying into a family filled with tradition, history, racing heritage, passion, and the essence of perfection. No deal in the world could make me buy anything aside from a Mercedes-Benz.

Chan

Props to you for making 100k+ a year. But to me 20k is A LOT of money. If you live in SoCali seeing the LS430 is a relief to the eyes because of all the damn S Classes running around.

Lexus is a name Toyota made up for the US Market.

I can tell you that my IS300 is probably more tunable than most German cars.

Which German car can do 606RWHP on stock motor? The only downside to my car is it's tranny. I'm not saying that they should have thrown in the getrag v160 because its gears are wide and designed for cars with 400+ HP.

I did take the C32 into consideration but I do not like the idea of why MB went from I6 to V6. In all aspects an I6 is superior to the V6...their engineers just got lazy or something.

Accord

Any of the Mercedes-Benz V12's can do that, aswell as the BMW V10, I can go on.

Chan

But can any BMW or MB 6 cylinder do that? I know the E46 M3 cannot.

Accord

With enough money, anything is possible.

BMW has shunned M3 owners from driving hard, AMG does just the opposite.

Chan

lol enough money. I consider BMW to be more of a performance breed than MB/AMG.

But with enough money I can do a 2JZ-GTE swap, getrag 6spd, single turbo conversion and BAM! I have a GT2 killer. Thats if I had money.

But for $7k installed, I can get SRT's stage 2 turbo doing about 320RWHP. 8PSI of boost and I'd doing that much(Baseline dyno for the IS300 auto generally are around 165RWHP). The 2JZ-GE/GTE are amazing engines. I'd probably still be as reliable or just slightly less reliable than stock.

The 606RWHP IS300 blew its motor because the owner ran 108 octane daily and shot a 150shot of N20 or somewhere around there without upgrading the internals....the 2JZ is nearly bullet proof but you can easily mess things up if you don't know what you're doing.

Oh and btw, I'm not from ClubLexus...I'm from IS300.net

There's also two IS430s running in Europe from TTE doing somewhere around low 4 0-60....I'll dig up a pic.

Chan

http://www.teamlexus.co.uk/forums/vi...d.php?tid=1385

Pics are no longer there, but they do have videos of the IS430 running and stuff.

Fast Eddy

Nothing beats Lexus LS430 GOLD EDITION, nothing! Some clowns buy it probably for that option alone. If you have to put that crap on the car how can anybody take it seriously?

GOLD EDITION LS430 need anyone say more?

KrispyK

This is precisely what Americans used to say about Cadillacs and Lincolns in the 50's and 60's. Mercedes-Benz was a niche vehicle in the U.S., barely making a dent in sales volume, driven by eccentrics car enthusiasts. Did anyone (especially post-WWII when the MB factories were in shambles) think that MB would ever be comparable to Cadillac? And look where they're at now -- top of the premium luxury heap. And Cadillac? It seems their demographic is primarily the older crowd; none of the younger folks respect Cadillac at all.

The fact that Lexus is supposedly a re-badged "Toyota" shouldn't, and really doesn't, make a difference in the quality of car produced. It only takes a few years for the "top-dog" position to change. We'll see who's leading car manufacturing in a few years. Though I am a MB fan, I'm really troubled by the lack of attention to detail on Mercedes-Benz vehicles these days. They produce fine automobiles, with excellent handling, comfort, and design, but in my experience, MB seems to neglect focusing on the minor details; a/c fan blower quits working, window switches fail, little electrical components break. I know that my Lexus salesman tells me that he gets a lot of customers over from MB. Same with a number of my friends who refuse to buy MBs after having to go back to the dealer over and over again for minor problems. It's almost never the engine blowing up (a la M3), it's always something minor. While enthusiasts such as ourselves are willing to put ourselves through this for the excellent qualities of an MB, people like my parents refuse to put up with it.

So we'll see what happens. But either way, I don't think the "it's only a Toyota!" argument has any merit. They, too, make a fine automobile.

One other thing: I'm trying to make a service appointment for my car in the NYC Tri-state area. I just want them to take a look at my check engine light, nothing major at all. They're booked until early November. I know that with most Honda dealerships around here you can get an appointment the next day ... is this how bad MB reliability has gotten? Just food for thought ...

DeeGuy

Number #1 car sold in US for camry, yes, luxury? NO!because americans has a low buying power. Take a look at Asian markets and Europe. For example, in SIngapore and hong kong, Mercedes benz is the top selling vehicles, for a vehicle that you think over priced? Imagine that...

absent

Deeguy,you don't know what you are talking about.