Caliz_Finest

all lexus people can do is complain about the price of the S class (if you are buying a car in this range price shouldnt be as important as you are making it) and reliability (i have NEVER had a problem with my S class Mercedes so this is not an issue for me) In the end Mercedes is FAR more stylish (mercedes vs lexus styling is the difference between man and god) and has a much better ride

AMG4life

well said

T0ked

Lexus meaning second rate? Lexus is the brand that "woke up" MB in the 90's and lit a fire under their butts. Lexus made a better MB than MB. The fact that a "rebadged Toyota" did it is just that more embarrassing. So there is no question that Lexus looks to MB for guidance, it's the difference between a 13 year old company and a century year old company. And each has to rely on it's strengths. It will be a sad day when MB looks to Lexus to decide which way the luxury market will go. The Germans are famous for their powertrains and handling, and that shows. The Japanese are famous for their reliablity and that shows. Now styling is very subjective. Its funny how millions of people "admired" the styling of the old 140 body S class. And when Lexus came out with the new LS, people claimed it was too boxy, outdated, blah blah. Yeah, it was an updated carbon of the 140, but who cares, it works. When the new S came out, many people who own the previous model derided it for being too curvy, they didn't like the more modern look. I don't like the styling of the new LS, but it looks better than the old S and the old LS and for many thats all that matters.

As for comparisons between the LS and new S, if you're comparing the LS430 to the S430, I don't know how you're convincing yourself. Styling preferences aside, the LS is a better car, powertrain wise, luxury wise, reliability wise. If you want a sports car get an E, GS, or 5-Series. That's not the point. The benefit of the S is that you can get a S500, S600, which I feel are not playing in the same league as the LS and are better vehicles.

I also feel that now with MB thriving, they're going back to their old ways. Reliability is down across the board with all their vehicles (except the M-class, but those were horrible when they first came out). Just look through this board at how many people have peoblems with their new MB's. If you haven't had any problems, then lucky you, but you're likely in the minority. My 9 year old Lexus SC300 has had zero problems other than normal wear and tear. My dad's 2000 S500 has already been at the MB dealer 3 times.

If you're looking at performance and value, the new LS is a better car than the new S430. To compare the LS430 to the whole S-class is a moot point. And I really hope MB owners do not get complacent and defend MB blindly just because they feel having a 3 pointed star means everything. I like both the Lexus and MB names. They make the other better for it. But I won't play favorites and brand loyalty is biggest load of s**t, so give credit where it is due.

It's funny how I've had to write this same sort of post over at the clublexus forums, people comparing the LS430 to the S600... geez...

KrispyK

I agree, for the most part, with Mr. "T0ked." I think a lot of people miss an important point when they claim a Lexus is just a re-badged Toyota: Toyota (and Honda) both mass-produce very reliable, average family sedans. I think that's quite a feat of an engineering in and of itself; I find it difficult to imagine BMW or Mercedes building a *very* reliable, moose-test-passing car for $15k-$22k (prices for an Accord or a Camry). The Mini and A-class are both north of the $20k mark, and they've got their own requisite problems. The fact of the matter is Toyota can mass-produce reliable cars cheaply, and that's a skill MB apparently doesn't have, when even a $55k E500 has a slew of issues. And I think this basic reliability translates into a very good car when Toyota decides to build an LS or GS or whatever.

I'm not a brand-loyalist either, as I've had both Lexi and MBs in our family stable. I think both make fantastic cars, and each have their own strengths. I also had the pleasure of driving a friend's 540i today, and boy, if you want a sporty driving experience, no E-class or GS is ever going to match that. Took a 10-mph hairpin at about triple the speed with the 540i; first time, DSC stopped me from taking a nice drift through, the second time, I turned off DSC, and boy, fantastic!! I just think it's so wondeful we have so many choices, and I hope MB, Lexus and BMW keep pushing each other to just make better and better cars.

internet_mafia

Actually, the only way to prove that "more" people favor the new S opposed to the old S is to look at yearly sales. With the introduction of the new S, MB sold over 14k S430's (check the website). The average yearly sales for the W140 were around 3-4k units. If so many people "hated" the new benz, then why were the sales so high? Please don't exaggerate the issue by saying that Millions of people dissed the new S430, because the numbers say otherwise. There's no denying that the W220 lacks the classiness of the W140 though.

Again, Lexus enhanced upon the W140, so it is no suprise that it outshines a 10 year old style. The core of the argument though is that duplicating the W140 led to Lexus "obtaining" a winning design without actually doing any work, which is the equivalence of plaigerism.

T0ked

Of course they sold more, the new S attracted more people. If you read some of the magazine articles and people who write to them, many people did not agree with MBs newly styled S. They felt it was too radical, especially from previous owners. And that's what my post states. Nothing more, nothing less. Nowhere does it say that millions of people preferred the styling of the 140. Nothing was exaggerated. The only one doing that is you.

Like I said, styling is subjective. Just like the new Bimmer 7 and Z4. Some people love it and some hate it. I think the new S is beautiful which is why I pushed my father to get the S500, but it's more than skin that makes a car. There are those who love the styling of the new LS. Obviously since this is an MB forum, people here have already made up their minds that the S is prettier than the LS.

The core of the arguement is is the LS430 a better car than the S-class, and at certain levels of equipment, it is.

internet_mafia

Check your post, YOU said that millions of people liked the old S.

T0ked

And how does that translate to millions of people dissed the new S????

internet_mafia

You made a case about how many people liked the old S by saying millions, then you also said that the new S was "derided". You made it sound as if the world was saddened by the new design. Out of the owners who had a W140, how many do you think now drive a W220? That was my point when I brought up the stats. Roughly 14K S430's and 14K S500 were sold in 2000. That's a ton of W220's, infact that takes into account the "new" buyers as well as the W140 trade-ins.

T0ked

Yes, derided by "many people who own the previous model". How that translates into millions is beyond me. But we are now getting into an arguement over symantics. Anyway, the new S attracted many new buyers and many previous model owners, that is obvious. But the core of my arguement still stands.

internet_mafia

The Lexus LS comes off as a cheap shot when compared to the S430. I mean, everything about the LS spells MERCEDES. I notice that this is only with a lexus. When I look at the interior of the LS, all I see is S-class, from the steering wheel, headrests, door panels, etc. Every other car manufacture has their own identity and style, Lexus doesn't. This is what my beaf is with the clowns who dare to compare a wannabee to the real thing. If you want Mercedes styling, then by a Mercedes.

The foolish love-lexus logic goes like this:

"So what if our car tries to looks like a mercedes from inside and out. So what if it's not original. So what that the LS doesn't pack the unrivaled technology of a mercedes. At least the LS is more reliable."

How do you define reliable? How do you measure it?

Style, uniqueness, prestige, technology, craftmenship, and the quality of the materials is what really matters. You can't offset all of these things by comparing how frequent a car visits the dealership. So you're not getting a better car for the money, you are getting a cheaper built car for your money. The S class blows away the LS car in terms of the number of safety/sensing programs and the years of research dedicated to providing the latest technology.

indow220

My opinion is that both cars are equally good, but Mercedes has long high image, especially from where i come from (Indonesia).

digital_b

this is a foolish comment from a fool. lets see, the ls is more reliable and comes with more equipment AS STANDARD, and is faster with better quality materials [as stated by every mag review of the s class talking about the obvious cheap interior materials specified by the 'bean counters'] and yet you make the abysmally stupid and uninformed comments above. the current generation s class is the worst iteration of the nomenclature ever. is the ls derivative of the s class. obviously so styling wise. other than that only a person who thinks a car [A CAR!] demands respect would think like this not to mention write drivel such as this.. this sounds like some idiot who is the target demographic of dub magazine. a semi literate hip hop wannabe. a benz doesnt get you more 'pull' nor does it get you 'respect'. unless youre talking about the underclass who thinks that the objects of desire then make their owners desirable. look around you and see who it is driving the s class. the people most likely driving are arrivistes. the dopes who want everyone to know how much money they have. classless jackasses who most likely see people they know on 'maury' or 'ricki lake'. the ls is the best car in its class right now. not living on the distant non memory of wannabes who werent even born when the benz was truly king. nothing you can say to revise history will change the current status quo.

Tandrek

There is a $20k price gap between the two vehicles. The fact that you would compare the two tells me that the Lexus wins for "value". The LS430 also obviously wins for performance. The LS430 has been considered the most well-built vehicle, and has awards for reliability, so there's that. The 2004 LS430 boasts Grade 6 leather and numerous standard options. While the 2006 S-Class should be superior, the current incarnation is definately being outdone.

ultra-violence

No comparison. S-Class all the way

Brian_I.

The LS just looks ugly to me. I wouldn't care if they gold plated the dashboard or put lambskin on the seats, the thing is just hideous.

S-Class hands down!

AirBenz919

Sorry Brian, I gotta disagree. The LS is very beautiful on the outside.

But as for what suits me, it would be the S-Class. It's a great car, IMHO!

Brian_I.

No problem, to each his own. I used to like it, since I used to love the w140 and I think the LS430 is a replica of it but more recently it just doesn't appeal to me at all.

I would still drive one. I just wouldn't buy one.

MB AMG

Sigh, i'm thinking thinking thinking.

Guest0001

Damn old thread. I think people know my opinion on this subject.

DMI+RY

Hmmm, interesting opinion...
Toyota's offsrping with LS label is better match for E-Class, than S-Class
No matter which S-Class you take, it is worthless to compare lower level vehicle with Mercedes.

BTW why you don't compare it with Hyundai Sonata or Kia Amanti???

DMI+RY

Is this about car performance or about the Car?

No fool tries to compare Ferrari Enzo and Ford Mustang as cars...?

LS430 is totally tasteless design with most of the features "borrowed" from German car makers, with only exception of Navi system, the rest is - p.o.s.

Toyota vs Mercedes?
That's funny!

AirBenz919

Yes, the LS430, right?

Tandrek

The Lexus LS430 boasts Grade 6 leather, while the S-Class only offers Grade-5 leather. The Lexus LS430 is approximately $55k, while the S-Class is closer to $75k. Additionally, the Lexus LS430 both outperforms and outlasts (reliability) the S-Class. The Navi System is not the only superior factor...

DMI+RY

First question - why do you ride CLK320 and not LS430 then?
Going further....
Leather? Well, very hard to tell, I prefer Napa leather (installed on S500 and up S-Class) rather than LS430.
Price difference? Yes, about 50% more for S500, but if you are getting the Car and not average vehicle.
Reliability? Yeah, lately MB has some issues in electrical department mostly because of asian friends... I believe they are working on that and S-Class getting better lately...
Considering LS430 reliability - well, its advertised very well as reliable car, thanks to quick problem reaction of Lexus dealers, but the car has fewer electronics and systems than S-Class...
Another thing which was kinda funny, my sister drive LS430 (lease, 2nd year, about 18k miles). Last month completely dead car went to dealer... What happened?
Even I was shocked - engine replacement!
So, talking about reliability...