Polar Bear

Hi Everyone,

I am considering the purchase of a W220 after owning to W210 E55s. The W210s I had I loved, a 1999 E55 AMG and a 2001 E55 AMG, however these were weekend cars. I have since sold them and am looking for a daily driver. I have read some excellent posts here regarding the differences including some excellent posts from Skylaw comparing the 2000 to the 2005 S500.

Since I am a gadget freak, I would really like to have one with most of the available options, but I don't guess that is a requirement. I would like Xenon lighting and heated seats at a minimum. It looks like the S500 has Xenon standard. I actually looked at an S430 today and it had neither. The general consensus seems to be to try to avoid the 2000-2002 models unless they have previously had the Airmatic work completed and the struts replaced. I do spend quite a bit of time on the interstate and this S430 I drove today was so comfortable. It was the first time I really spent much time in a W220. I imagine the S500 and S600 has a similar ride.

I do have a few specific questions that I hope some people can answer:

1) Does the W220 offer the Active Curve lighting (tilting projector beams following curve) available? Drove an S60 Volvo with this and LOVED it.

2) Other than the engine size and more standard options, are there any other differences in the S430 and S500? Big difference in power for acceleration and passing? I drove the S430 and it was definitely adequate and quite impressive for such a large car, and seemed to get good gas mileage the time I spent in it (an hour) judging by the on board computer.

3) Coming from an E55, the S600 looks REALLY tempting (2003-up). Any reason to avoid this model? Seems it has the most standard options. I would like Distronic and Keyless Go (but not a requirement), and this model looks like it would be more likely to have it.

4) Is the COMAND system pretty much useless in rural areas when it is CD-ROM based? Looks like only main roads are included, and I live a rural area. Is 2004 and up the model to get to get the better COMAND?

5) Is the ABC option worth getting?

I am leaning towards an S600 if I can get one for less than $40k, or if not perhaps an S500 4matic.

Noticed an S600 on eBay with several repairs in just one year. That was sorta scary. Link. It also had an ABC pump replaced - is this a reason to avoid ABC?

Before I make a purchase unless it is from a new Mercedes-Benz dealer, I would take it to a Mercedes-Benz mechanic and have the Airmatic system inspected.


Thanks to everyone for reading and their time.

silver65

I am new to the S series. I needed a large car and I also love power! So when I found an 03 S600 with 15K on it, all I had to do was drive it to fall in love. I've only had it for a little over a month now, so I can't tell you about repairs or what may go wrong, but I drive every day and I'm loving it!

whoover

There were lots of options on various models, and which ones were standard changed over the life of the model. I suggest you do some exploring at the mbusa.com site. If you go into the CPO section, you can see the changes over time, going back to the 2000 models. For instance, later models had bi-xenon (standard on some models, optional on others) while earlier had single xenon with normal halogen high-beams.

There were a lot of improvements made in 2004. An improved fiber bus for radio, CD, GPS, phone and other audio consumers meant vastly improved versions (like the GPS going from CD to DVD). Again, year makes more of a difference than model for many options.

There is no curve-following lighting.

The S600 is addictive. It's better equipped (especially interior, with better leather, better wood trim, separate rear A/C and other goodies) and the engine makes any V-8 seem crude. Which gets to repair expense. These cars are very expensive to repair, and the V-12 is no exception. Many of us would never recommend owning a W220 that's not covered by some sort of warranty.

If performance is of any interest to you, ABC is a must. The non-ABC suspension (called Airmatic) is at least as trouble-prone (it's pneumatic while ABC is hyrdraulic) but gives a boaty sort of ride as opposed to the much tighter handling with much less lean of ABC. If you're looking for the limo ride, Airmatic's for you. If you're looking for AMG-on-a-budget, it must be ABC. 4MATIC is not available with ABC, by the way.

Good luck.

Polar Bear

Thank you both for the replies.

I guess the best thing for me to do is find some at a dealer and spend some time in them test driving them, and make a decision.

I am afraid if I get one too nice (2004 S600) I will not want to drive it like I intend - which is a daily driver. Therefore, I am considering perhaps an S430 or S500 with a few miles (perhaps 60k+) that has been maintained and in good shape for a reasonable price. It really seems like a lot of car for the money.

Since it would perhaps be a daily driver, I would probably be OK with the Airmatic system. I do love lots of power though, so that is why the turbocharged S600 is so tempting.

As far as the powertrain itself, is that pretty reliable on the W220? Many issues with the engine components, etc?

Does the turbocharged S600 have the coil issues, etc. like I have heard referenced in the past?

I obviously have a lot of research to do (and thinking!) about which will suit my needs and budget best, but the S600's power just sounds like it would be so much fun!

Thanks

my06clk

I have to disagree on these two points.

After 2004 All of the above options were available for ALL W220's Not specific to the 600 except the engine.

Airmatic is not "boaty" unless you want to be. ABC as well. In Sport 2 mode sitting on deuce zero's OR 19's, my S has almost no body roll and takes curves like it's half its size. Not to put down ABC because it is an awesome system but...DON'T BELIEVE THE HYPE!!

Polar Bear

Thanks for the input.

Did you compare your S430 to an S500 before you purchased it? If so, what made you go with the S430?

There sure seem to be many more S430s for sale in this area compared to S500s.

Thanks.

whoover

The V12 interior is much nicer in all years. The full aniline leather is not available in any other model at any price. The upgraded V8 leather (which very few people order) is seats only. The leather dash, for instance, is V12 only. The wood, chrome inlays, mirror covers and lots of other touches are very nice, and limited to the S600 and S65. The rear seat (four-zone) climate control that's standard on V12 models was available as an option on other models, but it was very rarely ordered . I've never seen one on a V8. Chances are the only way you'll see this (and all the other rear seat goodies, like rear-seat controls for the front passenger seat, adjustable rear seats, rear seat massage and rear seat heaters together as a package) is in a V12.

As to ABC, there is no way to make it boaty. The "Sport" switch has very little affect. It's true that the Airmatic positions have more effect, but I've owned a few of each and, in my opinion, it's night and day. Driving both is the best way to determine whether the difference is noticeable to you.

The coil pack problems were solved. Late model V12s seem pretty reliable, but if they break they'll cost a fortune to fix. Maintenance costs are higher too. The 24 plugs have to be changed at 60K miles, not 100K like the V8's 16. The S65 brakes are a killer ($3,000 for front pads and rotors); a S600 won't be that bad but you should be prepared for high maintenance costs.

I don't know why you wouldn't use the S600 as a daily driver. Once you experience it I suspect you will.

Polar Bear

Are the plugs a DIY project?

Do you need to change just the plugs, or other wear items at the same time?

Can you provide an example of the expensive maintenance for the S600?

Thank you for the input. It is much appreciated.

whoover

I think they recommend changing plug wires at the same time, but I'm not sure. I've heard people do the plugs themselves. It's not hard, but it takes a fair amount of time.

The expensive one I know about on the S65 is the brakes, which I mentioned. The S600 brakes aren't as big, but you should call a dealer and ask what that costs. Rear tires on my S65 last 10,000 miles and cost almost $1,000 a pair. Fronts only last 20K miles. Not all S600s have comparable tires, but many of them have upgraded wheels and tires (factory option) that would be similar in cost and wear. I would expect stock (slightly smaller and higher profile) S600 tires to be a little cheaper and wear a little better, but no W220 gets very good tire life.

Polar Bear

I just checked Tire Rack for tires on a 2004 S600. They said the OE tires were the Michelin Pilot Sport 245/45-18s. They are expensive and from experience I know they don't last very long. The E55 took similar tires and they only lasted 20k at best. I am sure a different tire could be used, but it might not offer the ride/performance as Mercedes-Benz intended.

S500 or S430 tires were much less expensive on their web site.

whoover

Have you thought about an S55? Even a pre-2003 will outperform an S500 and they're pretty cheap now. And a later, 500HP, supercharged version may be cheaper to find than an S600.

Polar Bear

I have thought about that. I guess I just need to locate a few that are of interest and test drive them. They are all really nice cars - I just need to find one that has had a good home and has not been abused and neglected.

Do you have Distronic on your car? Do you find it works well and is worth the effort in locating one equipped with it?

One thing that really bothers me about Mercedes automobiles (I assume it is the dealers rather than Mercedes) is that the majority of the Mercedes automobiles on the market are stripped with no options. I looked at a 2008 CLK63 AMG Cabriolet today that had heated seats, and had HALOGEN headlights! For $93k! The E class is almost impossible to find equipped well. To be honest, that is how I ended up with an E55 last time. I drove a W210 E class and loved the way the car drive and decided I wanted one, but I wanted one with heated seats and xenon. Every single pre-owned (and even new at the local dealer - they ALWAYS order low option cars) E320 I could find had no options. They were always advertised as "loaded!" but didn't have heated seats, headlamp washers, xenon, sunshade, etc. So then I started looking for an E430, thinking I would have better luck. Not so. Then I looked at an E55, drove it, and had to have one. And it had the majority of the options standard. Perhaps this methodology keeps Steve from mbenznl so busy!

A Ford Focus has heated seats on many models, and the 2002 S430 I looked at did not!

my06clk

The reason there are so many E-classes and so on out there that are stripped is because people can barely afford them in the first place. So, they start adding things like the steering wheel and the rear seat and the price gets out of range. It also depends on where you live. Here in Tx, I see a lot of cars that are really loaded most of the time. Normally if it was a lease, it would be loaded because it has a better residual estimate ( at the beginning ).

It surprises me that you found an S without heated seats That is not an option with the S. Neither is Navigation.

whoover

I traded in a very nicely kept S55 for my S65. I would think AMG cars are maintained better than average.

I don't have Distronic. I almost never use cruise control and would never use Distronic. It's a matter of driving style. I can't see driving an S65 on autopilot, but to each his own.

I looked for an S65 without Distronic or Parktronic (I don't like the look of the sensors and, since this wasn't my first W220, I know where the bumpers are).

Polar Bear

I would have though the same thing. Here is an example:




From this car http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2002-Mercedes-Benz-S430-Chrome-Rims_W0QQitemZ110201295055QQihZ001QQcategoryZ6336
QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I thought when you got in S-class territory that you at least got heated seats on US models!

Polar Bear

Just got home from looking at a 2001 S430 that was for sale locally. Again, no heated seats!

My luck!

It did have Xenon, though.

S500 Man

just get a used s500 then...

Polar Bear

Not many of those around here. I do plan on driving to Atlanta and looking at a 2004 S600 this weekend. I will post what I find.