Joining the club! 2005 S600 misfire
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2005 Mercedes S600, 2004 Mercedes E500 4-Matic, 2002 Mercedes C32 AMG, 2001 Trans-Am WS-6
Joining the club! 2005 S600 misfire
Is it me or does it seem this cooler weather brings out the worst in the S600 with misfires? Guess I just joined the club!
I've got about 80k miles on the clock now, engine was running flawlessly until the other day when I took my daughter out for a driving lesson. She peformed what I thought was overly cautious (painfully slow) acceleration from a stop sign. So I told her to "go ahead and get on the gas!" and she looked at me and said "Dad, it's floored". !?!?! Just then the engine sputters, starts running really rough, and throws the Check engine light. So I get into the drivers seat, turn off and restart the car. CEL is still lit, but engine is running smoother, just no power, so I drive us home in what I can only describe as limp-home mode with all gears available.
Took it to the mecanic the next day to pull codes = multiple misfires. I didn't ask for the specific cylinders, but he suggested I replace the plugs first. So I replaced all 24 of them, which by their look, needed to be done anyway. Unfortunately, the car still misfires. So I'm probably going to bring it back to find out which cylinders are acting up...I'm just guessing a coil is shot.
Needless to say I'm getting that "Really??" look from my wife. I'll be following all the other "S600 misfire" posts closely to see how everyone else fares.
My one question is this: I was considering an ECU tune, but came across the link indicating that "1 in 5 car's coils get shot after the tune." Were these "Deaths" attributed to tunes done on vehicles with higher miles and "well used" coil packs? Do you think the odds any better with a brand new one installed, or am I risking throwing money away getting new coil packs, getting a tune, and having them burn?
Thanks!
I've got about 80k miles on the clock now, engine was running flawlessly until the other day when I took my daughter out for a driving lesson. She peformed what I thought was overly cautious (painfully slow) acceleration from a stop sign. So I told her to "go ahead and get on the gas!" and she looked at me and said "Dad, it's floored". !?!?! Just then the engine sputters, starts running really rough, and throws the Check engine light. So I get into the drivers seat, turn off and restart the car. CEL is still lit, but engine is running smoother, just no power, so I drive us home in what I can only describe as limp-home mode with all gears available.
Took it to the mecanic the next day to pull codes = multiple misfires. I didn't ask for the specific cylinders, but he suggested I replace the plugs first. So I replaced all 24 of them, which by their look, needed to be done anyway. Unfortunately, the car still misfires. So I'm probably going to bring it back to find out which cylinders are acting up...I'm just guessing a coil is shot.
Needless to say I'm getting that "Really??" look from my wife. I'll be following all the other "S600 misfire" posts closely to see how everyone else fares.
My one question is this: I was considering an ECU tune, but came across the link indicating that "1 in 5 car's coils get shot after the tune." Were these "Deaths" attributed to tunes done on vehicles with higher miles and "well used" coil packs? Do you think the odds any better with a brand new one installed, or am I risking throwing money away getting new coil packs, getting a tune, and having them burn?
Thanks!
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opposite-lock...
Sorry to hear of your woes.
And I'm almost sorry for quoting Jerry on that 1in5 bit... tho I sure wish I'd known that prior to doing my tune. I'd have certainly ensured I had my warranty in place prior to doing the tune had I known that gem of wisdom 8-/.
I have 54k and the coil failed about 1.5 weeks after the tune. And I think have had a coil or 2 replaced before - I have to double check my VMI, forget all the detail.
I don't blame Jerry - at all... I blame my self on being uninformed I guess.
Realistically, fact is for me - taking advantage of the price break offered at the time, and, having a spare car still around to use while ECU was out made it make very good sense to proceed despite the lack of warranty.
Apparently it seems to be these things are said to fail every 30k like clockwork. So yours @ 80k if having not been done ever before were on borrowed time.
I'd say replace, do the tune, enjoy 30k out of 'em.
Good luck!
And I'm almost sorry for quoting Jerry on that 1in5 bit... tho I sure wish I'd known that prior to doing my tune. I'd have certainly ensured I had my warranty in place prior to doing the tune had I known that gem of wisdom 8-/.
I have 54k and the coil failed about 1.5 weeks after the tune. And I think have had a coil or 2 replaced before - I have to double check my VMI, forget all the detail.
I don't blame Jerry - at all... I blame my self on being uninformed I guess.
Realistically, fact is for me - taking advantage of the price break offered at the time, and, having a spare car still around to use while ECU was out made it make very good sense to proceed despite the lack of warranty.
Apparently it seems to be these things are said to fail every 30k like clockwork. So yours @ 80k if having not been done ever before were on borrowed time.
I'd say replace, do the tune, enjoy 30k out of 'em.
Good luck!
Last edited by Sgt. Schultz; 12-24-2011 at 03:59 AM.
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I agree with Sgt Shultz. Coil packs go often anyway, even with the car not being tuned.
I can't say enough about my tune. It transformed my car. But the reason I am not worried about the coils packs dying off is my warranty....
I can't say enough about my tune. It transformed my car. But the reason I am not worried about the coils packs dying off is my warranty....
#4
Member
Hi There.
If i remember correctly, MB advises to change the gaskets A00015980 to each spark plug each time when removing the coil pack (and clean it).
If the unit isnt fried yet, trying this this could be a last resort.
Cheers, Frank
If i remember correctly, MB advises to change the gaskets A00015980 to each spark plug each time when removing the coil pack (and clean it).
If the unit isnt fried yet, trying this this could be a last resort.
Cheers, Frank
#5
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I know of several v12 that also lost the coils on the dyno, during a tune. Strange for that to happen but worst part is the amount to change all the coils out.
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E63 Biturbo, UPD Cold Air induction kit, UPD performance crank pulley and UPD adjustable rear suspension with ride height adjustment.
CL55 UPD Cold Air Boost kit, UPD 3000 stall converter, UPD 77mm SC clutched pulley and beltwrap kit, Custom long tubes, UPD crank pulley , UPD suspension kit, UPD SC pulley, Aux. HE, Trunk tank w/rule 2000 pump, Mezeire pump, UPD 5pc idler set, Aluminum rotor hats.
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#6
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2005 Mercedes S600, 2004 Mercedes E500 4-Matic, 2002 Mercedes C32 AMG, 2001 Trans-Am WS-6
My friend, a Ford mechanic, also suggested looking at the camshaft position sensor, but he also said he was not familiar with the single coil-multiple cylinder setup.
What strikes me as odd was the sudenness of the failure...one moment running fine, next moent totally dead; no sputters or sign of failure in-between. Is that consistent with the coil failure? Also, on a side note, can someone explain to me WHY M-B designed this engine with a single coil pack for each 6 cylinders on this car? Out of fear, I looked at the other car and see that the E500 has (and I recall, the C32 had) "individual ignition packs" over each cylinder with an A-B plug lead, which makes more sense to me from a maintenance standpoint.
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2005 Mercedes S600, 2004 Mercedes E500 4-Matic, 2002 Mercedes C32 AMG, 2001 Trans-Am WS-6
I'm pleased to announce that installing a new coil-pack solved the misfire issue! We are back to FULL POWER!
Thanks to the forum for all the information needed to diagnose and replace these myself!
Thanks to the forum for all the information needed to diagnose and replace these myself!
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opposite-lock...
NOICE!
Must be a relief. Odd that it was an entire bank failure, mine seems to be 1 cyl and I can just baby it and no misfire at all - for now.
Hoping a new coil does it for me here too, just need to wait a few more weeks 8-/.
Did you search/find a good post here about the process that you used / care to share?
Must be a relief. Odd that it was an entire bank failure, mine seems to be 1 cyl and I can just baby it and no misfire at all - for now.
Hoping a new coil does it for me here too, just need to wait a few more weeks 8-/.
Did you search/find a good post here about the process that you used / care to share?
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2005 Mercedes S600, 2004 Mercedes E500 4-Matic, 2002 Mercedes C32 AMG, 2001 Trans-Am WS-6
NOICE!
Must be a relief. Odd that it was an entire bank failure, mine seems to be 1 cyl and I can just baby it and no misfire at all - for now.
Hoping a new coil does it for me here too, just need to wait a few more weeks 8-/.
Did you search/find a good post here about the process that you used / care to share?
Must be a relief. Odd that it was an entire bank failure, mine seems to be 1 cyl and I can just baby it and no misfire at all - for now.
Hoping a new coil does it for me here too, just need to wait a few more weeks 8-/.
Did you search/find a good post here about the process that you used / care to share?
https://mbworld.org/forums/m275-v12-...-pictures.html
I did take photos of my removal of the coils and sparkplugs, more for my piece of mind to keep track of things removed, but not sure if they are worth posting or not...
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2005 Mercedes S600, 2004 Mercedes E500 4-Matic, 2002 Mercedes C32 AMG, 2001 Trans-Am WS-6
NOICE!
Must be a relief. Odd that it was an entire bank failure, mine seems to be 1 cyl and I can just baby it and no misfire at all - for now.
Hoping a new coil does it for me here too, just need to wait a few more weeks 8-/.
Did you search/find a good post here about the process that you used / care to share?
Must be a relief. Odd that it was an entire bank failure, mine seems to be 1 cyl and I can just baby it and no misfire at all - for now.
Hoping a new coil does it for me here too, just need to wait a few more weeks 8-/.
Did you search/find a good post here about the process that you used / care to share?
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opposite-lock...
happens under load scenarios, bog or boost trigger it - stay out of those and baby it there's no miss
soon as you bog up a hill (need to downshift to avoid) or boost or come to stop and not pop in neutral (loads motor otherwise) - misfire
awesome
John Nouri said he'd help me out, waiting to hear back from him though nothing yet since
Good luck on your 2nd bank. Mine thus far's been consistent #5cyl and no other codes but destiny sucks I'm sure
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2005 S500 4-Matic, 1978 450SL
What is it with our grandmothers? My grandfather once owned several thousand riverfront acres that my grandmother thought was "disreputable" because it was the site of dredge fill from the river. At her insistence, my grandfather sold it for almost nothing. Now, a major business district of Jacksonville, FL sits on the land - which completely surrounds the convergence of the Warren (I-95), Acosta and Main Street (Alsop) bridges - folks there call the property "South Jacksonville" (sometimes, "Southside").
She also talked him into selling the significant shares of stock he held in a small beverage company. She equated investment in stocks with gambling. So, for almost nothing, he sold his stock holdings in Pepsi.
Oh, well. She was a wonderful lady, but not much for investment advice.
She also talked him into selling the significant shares of stock he held in a small beverage company. She equated investment in stocks with gambling. So, for almost nothing, he sold his stock holdings in Pepsi.
Oh, well. She was a wonderful lady, but not much for investment advice.
Last edited by Skylaw; 01-05-2012 at 12:31 PM.
#18
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i dont have me a v12 yet guys but just how long does it take to change out the coil packs?? i know its much easier on our n/a engines without a turbo but it seems like one should definitely know about these coil packs before owning a S600..
coil packs every 30k? mercedes s-600? its worth it.
coil packs every 30k? mercedes s-600? its worth it.
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What is it with our grandmothers? My grandfather once owned several thousand riverfront acres that my grandmother thought was "disreputable" because it was the site of dredge fill from the river. At her insistence, my grandfather sold it for almost nothing. Now, a major business district of Jacksonville, FL sits on the land - which completely surrounds the convergence of the Warren (I-95), Acosta and Main Street (Alsop) bridges - folks there call the property "South Jacksonville" (sometimes, "Southside").
She also talked him into selling the significant shares of stock he held in a small beverage company. She equated investment in stocks with gambling. So, for almost nothing, he sold his stock holdings in Pepsi.
Oh, well. She was a wonderful lady, but not much for investment advice.
She also talked him into selling the significant shares of stock he held in a small beverage company. She equated investment in stocks with gambling. So, for almost nothing, he sold his stock holdings in Pepsi.
Oh, well. She was a wonderful lady, but not much for investment advice.
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2005 Mercedes S600, 2004 Mercedes E500 4-Matic, 2002 Mercedes C32 AMG, 2001 Trans-Am WS-6
i dont have me a v12 yet guys but just how long does it take to change out the coil packs?? i know its much easier on our n/a engines without a turbo but it seems like one should definitely know about these coil packs before owning a S600..
coil packs every 30k? mercedes s-600? its worth it.
coil packs every 30k? mercedes s-600? its worth it.
When I continued to get the left 7-12 bank misfire after replacing the plugs, I was able to remove just the left coil pack in about 20 minutes and put back together in about 40 (including swapping the heat shield and being VERY gentle pushing and seating the pack into the engine...also two bolts dropped and retrieved AGAIN).
I'm getting a cylinder 2 misfire now if I take the engine over 4500 rpm, but have managed to drive about 300 miles keeping it under 4k with no issues at all. This is obviously no fun to do, so I'm planning on replacing the right coil pack in the next week or so when I can find some extra time. Until then I'll just baby it or steal my wife's E500. I'll update when completed.
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opposite-lock...
My indy mechanic quoted removal of both coil packs and replacing all 24 spark plugs at 6.5 hours on his All-Data system. I had them removed in 3 and installed in 2 (although I can honestly say 1 hour was spent fishing multiple dropped bolts and ratchets from under the car). It also involved replacing a pressure sensor that I managed to break when pulling aside the right intercooler to get to the coil pack.
When I continued to get the left 7-12 bank misfire after replacing the plugs, I was able to remove just the left coil pack in about 20 minutes and put back together in about 40 (including swapping the heat shield and being VERY gentle pushing and seating the pack into the engine...also two bolts dropped and retrieved AGAIN).
I'm getting a cylinder 2 misfire now if I take the engine over 4500 rpm, but have managed to drive about 300 miles keeping it under 4k with no issues at all. This is obviously no fun to do, so I'm planning on replacing the right coil pack in the next week or so when I can find some extra time. Until then I'll just baby it or steal my wife's E500. I'll update when completed.
When I continued to get the left 7-12 bank misfire after replacing the plugs, I was able to remove just the left coil pack in about 20 minutes and put back together in about 40 (including swapping the heat shield and being VERY gentle pushing and seating the pack into the engine...also two bolts dropped and retrieved AGAIN).
I'm getting a cylinder 2 misfire now if I take the engine over 4500 rpm, but have managed to drive about 300 miles keeping it under 4k with no issues at all. This is obviously no fun to do, so I'm planning on replacing the right coil pack in the next week or so when I can find some extra time. Until then I'll just baby it or steal my wife's E500. I'll update when completed.
I didn't drop any bolts for once / surprisingly - but I totally busted that verysame MF'ing NIPPLE! JB welding it back on took as long/longer than the whole coil job. I rule tho.
Skin? Knuckles / hands? Who needs it.
8-)
The job's real easy, the 2nd time will be a breeze. Just need to be methodical and get a system down and it goes real quick.
So, you've replaced both coils / all plugs / all boots - and you're still getting a #2 miss? Miles?
Good luck. Enjoy the 500 until then 8-).
Oh... fahhkin SCHWEET!!!!! My MPG's just hiked by about 5 (*FIVE*) since the swap. BOINGoingOINGoingOING.
Not sure if they'll stay this high as I'm still not fully employing the sukker, but boyohboy is 18.something ennnnnnnntirely more palatable than 13.something... Eurocharged FTMFW!
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2005 Mercedes S600, 2004 Mercedes E500 4-Matic, 2002 Mercedes C32 AMG, 2001 Trans-Am WS-6
LOL! You just saved me a bunch of typing should I ever need to describe my experience swapping in a new right bank coil pack 2nites ago. TOO FUNNY.
I didn't drop any bolts for once / surprisingly - but I totally busted that verysame MF'ing NIPPLE! JB welding it back on took as long/longer than the whole coil job. I rule tho.
Skin? Knuckles / hands? Who needs it.
8-)
The job's real easy, the 2nd time will be a breeze. Just need to be methodical and get a system down and it goes real quick.
So, you've replaced both coils / all plugs / all boots - and you're still getting a #2 miss? Miles?
Good luck. Enjoy the 500 until then 8-).
Oh... fahhkin SCHWEET!!!!! My MPG's just hiked by about 5 (*FIVE*) since the swap. BOINGoingOINGoingOING.
Not sure if they'll stay this high as I'm still not fully employing the sukker, but boyohboy is 18.something ennnnnnnntirely more palatable than 13.something... Eurocharged FTMFW!
I didn't drop any bolts for once / surprisingly - but I totally busted that verysame MF'ing NIPPLE! JB welding it back on took as long/longer than the whole coil job. I rule tho.
Skin? Knuckles / hands? Who needs it.
8-)
The job's real easy, the 2nd time will be a breeze. Just need to be methodical and get a system down and it goes real quick.
So, you've replaced both coils / all plugs / all boots - and you're still getting a #2 miss? Miles?
Good luck. Enjoy the 500 until then 8-).
Oh... fahhkin SCHWEET!!!!! My MPG's just hiked by about 5 (*FIVE*) since the swap. BOINGoingOINGoingOING.
Not sure if they'll stay this high as I'm still not fully employing the sukker, but boyohboy is 18.something ennnnnnnntirely more palatable than 13.something... Eurocharged FTMFW!
Awesome to hear of the mileage boost! Hope it lasts for you. I'm averaging 17.X mixed. My daughter managed to get 24 on a 2 hour long stretch of country road going 50-55 (the joys of a learners permit). I'm lucky to see 20 if I'm trying.
To answer your question though, I had removed and replaced the original coils when I replaced the plugs (optimistically thinking the plugs would cure the misfiring...I was wrong). Then I just replaced the left coil pack. I haven't replaced the original right coil yet but now that I'm getting the #2 misfiring, it will need to be done. So that's next on the "do now" list.
I've got about 84k miles clocked, so I'm sure it's "due". In the last 12 months, I've replaced all the TPMS wheel sensors, the Dual Valve & aux pump assembly, the ACC pushbutton control unit, a hood spring, all three idler pulleys and drive belt, the 24 sparkplugs, and now the coil packs. Next on the "to do list": Tensioner pully (it's "whining"), yet another set of tires (Continental Extreme DWS - LOVE THEM!), brake pads, and probably front rotors when the brakes are done (also expected). And THEN, just maybe, the ECU tune.
I think that I will have to fertilize my money tree a lot more soon!