So I'm looking at selling my w210 E55 in favor of getting a S600 (w220). I head over to my mechanic (a well known local merc specialty guy), and tell him that I'm looking at options and he warns me that the S430/500/55 are much better choices over the S600.

Call me lame, but I was really looking forward to owning my first V12 ~ I know, it may be a silly kid thing ~ but call it a bucket list item ~ in reality I've loved the 600/65s since I heard one start up, and that growl.......[shiver]...

Why would I not believe this well known mechanic? I have a WHITE E55, and this guy has been wanting one. So I half wonder if he's thinking of offering a trade, and he has no S600s to trade. I donno. Other than that, I have no reason to question him. In fact, I'm not questioning him as much as not wanting my hopes for a S600 dashed to pieces.

Anyway....The suggestion threw me off, so I thought I'd verify with you fine gentlemen (and ladies). Are the V12 cars more problematic over they V8s? Am I stepping into something a little too hastily?

Pix for clicks attached.

 

Your mechanic is right and is looking out for you . The s600, especially the 2000-2002 s600 are notorious for major expensive failures and their value is actually lower than a s500. The twin turbo s600 of 2003-2006 is better but still has some very expensive common failure items that the v8 does not .

The most reliable w220 is a s430 or s500 with airmatic suspension . The s55 and s600 (and a few s500 with the option ) have the abc hydraulic suspension which is prone to multiple failures and is very expensive to fix. The early s600 have oil cooler and engine problems , and the later turbo s600 have coil pack problems . These are all four figure repair bills

 

DANG IT!!!!! NNnnnnnooooooooooo......

 

Yes, I know.

So... call me a glutton for punishment - if I find a well cared for s600, what repairs should I look for having already been done? You mentioned oil coolers, abc suspension and what else goes wrong with the motor.

I'll keep my eyes open for a s55. But I want to find a clean and non abused car, and I always worry about true AMG models having been given a beating.

 

You want to see the oil Cooler and coil packs replaced

With abc there are so many components , even if it's had its pump and a few hoses changed , it will still need valve blocks , or struts, or accumulators , or other hoses. Nobody ever refreshes the entire abc system as it could cost $10,000 to change it all- which means anything not previously changed is a ticking time bomb waiting to fail. Even pumps that have been replaced once fail again . So there's nothing really to look for in service records which would indicate no abc issues in the future

 

Coil packs, oil coolers, suspension.

Is there anything inherently wrong with the motors internals? Meaning, they last other than whats already been mentioned.

I'll look for a car thats already been converted to coilovers. I assume coilovers are a good mod/addition to w220s.

 

Aside from those issues the motor itself is stout

Finding a car converted to coil overs is a car to avoid - it means the previous owner was too cheap to maintain the car properly. They probably took other shortcuts too. It is not considered a good mod and in fact most buyers will avoid them . It's not like a 350z where coil overs are a cool mod, it means you were too cheap to maintain abc and so its looked down upon by most buyers

. If you want a car with coil overs , have the conversion done yourself . If you find a car with existing abc problems you can pick it up very cheap and then have the conversion done

 

I understand that mindset totally. I loved getting all maintenance records tucked in a nice folder when I bought my E. Speaking of which, I know my e55 has traditional coils and shocks. My worry over the suspension is ... well... i don't. Throw some Bilstiens on it and go another 100k.

I'm not looking to "slam" the car, just weighing the options to build a car that can last a while, make cross-country trips and not strand me. My E55 is a wonderful grand touring car (totally stock btw) and I have really enjoyed weekend trips to Pagosa Springs, Silverton and Breckenridge. In fact one thing I look forward to is buying a car out of state and having a bit of a road trip back.

 

Btw - a huge thanks for your input tusabes. I appreciate your time and knowledge of these things

 

People often warn against S600's, but I've had four (two turbos) and I'm obviously addicted. Perhaps it does take an addiction, but in reality Ive only had problems with one of them, and that had done 146,000 when I bought it.

If you can find a car that has the new part number coil packs, and a replaced ABC pump, then you may be onto a winner (and it's not as unlikely as you might think). Obviously avoid cars with little service history and lots of owners. Have a read of Howards thread on S600 maintenance - he takes a much more positive attitiude than many around here:

https://mbworld.org/forums/s-class-w220/431985-ongoing-maintenance-repair-2003-s600.html

I think that many of the problems are caused by under-hood heat, and I've added some additional heat-shielding to the coil packs and ABC hoses to help protect them. Many of the repairs can be expensive, but there are always other ways.

The S500 is a good car, but a pale shaddow of the S600 IMHO.

Nick

 

Thanks for your chiming in Nick. Its good to hear both sides. I'm still in the looking stage, it took a few months to find my E55 ~ so I figure its going to take a bit to find an S looking for a good home.

Thanks for the link. I saw that thread and had given it a glance. I'll look a little harder.

 

Quick update.. Transformer fixed the car, zero coil pack faults so I will leave them alone.

The blue is actually spectacular in the flesh..

edit: ugh delete post, somehow put this in the wrong thread. I am definitely old enough to own an s class

 

indeed it is , especially in the right sun light
I have a rare horizon blue cl500 and owned a horizon blue s430 previously

 

There ARE some systems that do not have good durability histories. IMHO, the 'coil pack failures' and diaphragm failures in all the 'PSE" =that's MBZ for pneumatic pressure/vacuum powered units are the most costly to fix. This happens in 1) door lock assemblies 2) seat massage and comfort bladders and rear headrest auto raise and lower.
However, once You drive and experience absolute perfection and power--anything else is 2nd or 3rd or lower. With the S-600 ) non=-turbo V-12 --driving quickly becomes 'automatic. This car 'reads-your-mind' and everything seems to start changing before you consciously make any changes- with the outcomes never in doubt.

 

IMHO, MBZ laid a rotten egg with the V-12 ignition system starting with an unbelievably complicated 'misfire detector' system. Of course, they did not know at the time the iron core in the 24 ignition coils would RUST and the swelling caused by the rust would stretch the tightly wound thousands of very fine copper wires---causing them to pull apart. Then this very high voltage (40-60K volts) would damage the power supply for the coils. Then to manufacture only the entire 12 coils per bank in an 'assembly' costing owners $3000 or so is outrageous and subject to class action lawsuits. That this 'system' flags a 'misfire' when there was no misfire but just a somewhat abnormal conductivity of the combustion chamber gasses immediately after the combustion event, pours salt on the wound. In summary, this entire unreliable and beastly over-complicated (and outrageously costly) dual spark plug system is 'an elegant emissions reduction device.' Everyone else found ultra-reliable single plug systems worked very well. IT is not a question of 'if " this ignition coil defect shows -up, it is just 'when?'
Then there is the not inevitable, but highly likely fuel injection solenoid valve sticking OPEN and causing 'hydro-lock 'and ruination of the engine. Dealer experienced Techs strongly recommend REPLACING ALL THE FUEL INJECTORS at 50-60K miles to preclude this stuck-open fuel injector 'kill the engine' failure.

Then there is the ghastly expensive to repair the failing rubber diaphragms in the door-locks, seat bladder actuators, rear head-rest actuators, and others. Why Mercedes continues to use this proven unreliable system escapes me. Everyone else employs simple, highly reliable electrical actuators for these same functions. It can cost over $15,000 just to replace the failed air-powered actuators. Stupid stupid. The Industry has tried (and failed in every case) every other power system--vacuum, pressure, hydraulic' and settled on simple, ultra-reliable, light-weight electrical powered actuators.

Does the S-600 "engine' have problem areas? No, just a shockingly large one. The 'rest-of-the-car' has at least two outrageously costly to repair systemic problems---fuel injectors that stick open and can destroy the engine; and the unbelievably costly repairs of pneumatic/vacuum 'PSE' actuators everywhere.
IS the driving experience incomparable---YES Are the costs of Dealer repairs also incomparable? YES
IS the 'experience' worth the cost of Dealer repairs---IMHO--NO, unless you can and are willing to spend the time and money to repair most things yourself.

 

Thank you for this detailed engineering root cause level explanation of the issues. I didn't see any mention of the ABC system. Would care to provide additional comment on it as well?

Also do you believe that is possible to find a well sorted one that could possibly put these major troubles behind you?

 

I keep mine well-sorted. Yep, had to replace the coils. I've replaced every rubber line in the ABC system, and rebuilt the valve blocks (new o-rings). I've chased down one pneumatic leak, but recognize that there are likely more ahead.

I am rewarded with a car that has phenomenal acceleration, ride and handling. The engine is a joy to experience, with earthmoving torque and unbelievable smoothness in operation.

I couldn't own it if the dealer did the work, but since I do my own, it's been achievable, and I've loved every minute behind the wheel.

 

I think the valve block is the next thing I need to fix on mine... my fronts sink fast when off, one side always moreso than the other. How much effort was involved? I am a qualified mechanic with a shop, but it helps to ask someone who has done it.

 

Best thing is just to use rebuild services on eBay

 

The killer is shipping from Australia to USA and back, so many opportunities for problems and delays. If I was in USA, then no problem