biturbo06

Hello There
I had my S600 for a few years and problem has come up on and off but my dealer can't really find whats wrong. So during cold start in the morning the car turns on and starts shaking violently and immediately check engine light turns on i replaced the Ignition coils and spark plugs less than 10k miles ago and upon driving the car it sounds very strange. Please let me know if you have experienced this problem. THANKS

trustz

Please let us know if the check engine lights on, you should able to get a OBD2 scan the code, so you know which cylinder is misfire ! If you replace the coil pack and spark plug on both side not too long ago, you should check the ignition voltage transformer, Mercedes part# 0001500258

shooffnyc

I have similar problem with my 01 S600. In the cold mornings, the car starts up with CEL and it would perform horribly. But by afternoon, CEL would go away and the car would perform just fine.

I am also thinking it's the Voltage transformer unit. BUT I also think that due to all the moisture that builds up from the morning dew where I live, it messes with the electrical components. I am not totally sure if replacing the voltage transformer unit would solve my problem.

Turboaction

I recently repaired my driver's side coil pack to resolve a cylinder #11 misfire code. I cleared the code, then drove the car about 1,000 miles and now the whole driver's side bank is dead. I opened the voltage transformer and the plastic around all the capacitors is cracked and falling off. I used to repair industrial electronics as an intern and have never seen capacitors like this. Usually, if they swell, the top breaks open. I'm guessing this transformer needs new capacitors since the aluminum cans have swollen and cracked the plastic. The inductors seem to be fine. It's not uncommon for electrolytic capacitors to fail after 10 years, especially when they're subjected to high frequency loads.

Has anyone tried to repair one of these transformers? The capacitors should cost less than $10. I'm just hoping I can figure out what the specifications are for the transformers since the plastic is in such poor condition! If anyone can pop the cover on their transformer and read each of the blue capacitors for me it would be absolutely amazing!

I guess worst case, I can measure the capacitance of the right hand bank capacitors and just purchase replacements for the left bank with the same capacitance. I can then buy the highest voltage rating that will fit in the same package space. It's better than nothing I guess.

EDIT:

After thinking about this some more, I measured the "AC" voltage coming out of the ignition transformer. Typically you can measure AC voltage on a DC line if the filter capacitors are shot. Well, there was less than 1V AC on all of the DC supply lines to the coil pack, so it's hard for me to believe the problem is the ignition transformer. I guess I'll be removing the left side coil pack again to see if I can find something on the board that would take out all six cylinders on the left bank.

tusabes

Just buy a new transformer

Turboaction

I bought a transformer. If it fixes the problem, I'll try to rebuild my old one as a backup, as an experiment. I removed the coil and everything looks fine. I'm not going to open the cover on the coil pack again unless the new voltage transformer doesn't resolve my issue.

My coils are both the older vintage part number and I believe they have 97K miles on them. ABC parts are in the warranty list, but no ignition parts. How many original part number coil packs are still out there in the wild?

If my coil pack turns out to be bad, I may wait for O'Reilley's to get more in stock. My local AutoZone has the coil pack in stock, but it only has a 2 year warranty. From my understanding, it may be worth the wait for a lifetime warranty coil pack.

As others have mentioned, replacing the coil pack is a job that takes less than an hour. It really isn't a challenge.

Turboaction

As an update, I bought a new coil from AutoZone (Updated OEM Temic). The car now runs fine. So for anyone wondering, it is possible for a coil to fail in a way where it causes the entire bank to misfire at the same time. I'll be removing the cover (a second time now) to see what blew up this time. Last time I replaced the coils on the single misfiring cylinder and the problem went away (along with new spark plugs).

ZephTheChef

Very curious what you find. I have replaced one coil and still very occasionally get misfires reported on that side (I suspect possibly false misfires due to the water/meth injection fussing with the ion sensing stuff). The other side is an orignal factory coil, old part number and I never miss a beat over on that bank.

Welwynnick

Ion sensing isn't used on V12TT. Only on V12NA.

Regards, Nick

ZephTheChef

Per the "M275 initial training" pdf, it is used for misfire detection but not knock detection on the M275.

Welwynnick

You're absolutely right. I knew knock control was done with knock sensors (I'm one of the few people to have seen them) but I thought misfire detection was done by speed measurement, like other cars. Who knows, maybe the ion detection stops the V12TT from having EVEN MORE misfire faults than it already does!


Nick

ZephTheChef

I believe it's a combination of both. They made some reference to enhancing misfire detection by monitoring engine speed with the crank sensor...and probably comparing it to the ion current stuff.

fisherman123

Probably silly question... but what's ion?
a quick search from google didn't satisfied me.. Sorry but I just don't get it and have to ask.
What is ion has to do with the coil pack? Is it some kind of rusty corrosion? I shouldn't have any correct? is it visible?can I see it with naked eyes and how could you tell if I have too little/much/ or none?
Thanks guys,later.
Mike
https://www.google.com/search?gs_ivs...s+an+ion&tts=0

ZephTheChef

I don't understand all the intimate details, but basically after the spark the ignition module then supplies 1,000 volts to the spark plug and monitors the amount of current that travels across the ions left in the spark gap. From that, cylinder pressure can be estimated and the computer then knows if there is irregular combustion, or lack of combustion taking place.

Forgive me if that's not exactly how it works, but it's along those general lines.

Welwynnick

Ions are atoms that have lost or gained electrons, and hence carry an electric charge. Ions are formed during the combustion process, and these affect the current in the spark. The coil pack measures the current flowing through the spark plug. This give information about the nature of the combustion.

Nick

kraut56

great stuff - isn't it?

Lots of stuff in these coil packs!

Have a great weekend everybody!

Astro14

If you're having transformer issues, I would give these guys a call: http://www.v12icpack.com

They just repaired one of my coils at a reasonable price. My car's running great.

They loan out transformers for testing. Talked with the owner - real nice guy. Try the loaner transformer as a troubleshooting measure. I've bookmarked their site as I'm certain I'll use them again in the future.